Joe McDonagh cup

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
GAHMAD
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by GAHMAD » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:07 am

This.

I wasn't goingt to post anything about Saturday because it's still massively disappointing. But I want to draw attention to PJ's point. For as long as the work is not done at grassroots, Offaly will continue to produce teams who:-
- are deficient in basic fitness (I mean the areas such as saq);
- are unable to control a game;
- are unable to win a puckout;
- are unable to go short with a puckout and work the ball through the lines (because they can't win it in the air);
- are unable to deal with a team with a extra defender;
- are unable to string two passes together;
- are unable to make a run to collect a pass;
- are unable to tackle correctly;
- are unable to with their body (there is more to tackling than hooking and blocking, you know);
- are unable to hurl as a team;
- are unable to think their way around the field.
(the list is not exhaustive.)

And for as long as Offaly are deficient in each of the above skillsets, and others, they will continue to field teams who are absolutely harmless when faced by competent opposition and will continue be overtaken by counties previously ranked below them. There are no quick fix solutions. And the world is not going to revert back to 1980 or 1990 to suit Offaly. Hurling is constantly changing, and will continue to do so. "
Look I am from North Offaly, and Faithful fields is 25/30 mins away, 15 mins additional to Birr, My commute to work is 3 hrs round trip daily (yes , that's my issue, but get some perspective on distances.)
That being said, I would love to get to a stage where some decent level matches could be help in Birr and would be delighted to attend a County final or semi final down there. There will be no issue with crowds for C Ring so I suppose the opportunity for Offaly to hurl there will happen in 2020.
I also think that if there is a real desire to work on the above areas (As outlined by POTH) in a proper manner then you will see some positive results.

But lads...…...come on...parking issues in Tullamore, delays getting in and out of town, ye really need to get out a bit more!!!!

Hurling plan, duster and committee to oversee roll out please Tommy if you are reading!
Newspapers, get an article and interview with coaching staff from the county comparing hurling plan proposal with what is REALLY happening on the ground, and don't hold back on challenging the answers.

Finally After this, Co Board if they have a plan need to hammer down the door of the Leinster council and ensure that we get extra coaches in the assist us to see , with the right local effort in place and with their support, we have the potential to get back up along the ladder and into the Leinster championship.


Enough fiddling while Rome burns, and we need to do the same with the football also. We are talking about a run in the qualifiers, last year fellas were hailing Paul Rouse as a Messiah (and he did well and is a good fella), but we beat Antrim, this year we have beaten London and face Sligo on Sunday. We can at least see some consistency coming into play if we can get over Sunday.

timber
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by timber » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:08 am

greenairfield wrote:Birr dont even train for football and have reached junior finals and semi finals and almost went senior about 7 years ago what's your point??

North Offaly people are just as arrogant when it comes to south clubs playing football.

We need everyone doing well but if the so called traditional clubs are not doing well ye north men are having a laugh if you think hurling will turn around cos one or two clubs the far side of tullamore have improved!
I'd love to see Birr giving the football some attention. I cant understand why they wouldn't. A big town, surely plenty of lads only mad to kick a ball. No excuses really not to field a team.

My point is, that the south teams that fully concentrate on hurling should be miles ahead of the dual clubs because they have a huge advantage obviously if they are able to prepare solely for that code. Going back nearly 20 years and they were struggling to get wins over dual clubs who I can say first hand had done embarrassingly poor preparation for the hurling championship games. This shows that those traditional hurling clubs were in decline even back then.

Your tone has been very arrogant towards the north and yet you say the south needs to be strong to turn things around. Well bottom line is they are not producing quality. Why are these clubs not performing, what is going on in these clubs. why has the likes of Birr which was a great club fallen back so much? Should these clubs not be getting the finger out and getting their house in order?

And on a separate note, the senior club championship in Offaly lacks intensity. A big problem I think for the current players is the gap between the intensity and pace of the games they play at for their clubs and what they are greeted with at inter county level is huge.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Fairplayalways » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:19 pm

I have said it elsewhere, if you take a huge gap with meaningless league games to fill void while preparing for a championship (and grand everyone gets a league game, but the intercounty boys are "rested") their cant be any really momentum of intensity then after 6/7 weeks when you run out onto a LSHC (Joe McDonagh this year in Offalys case!)...play on with our championships at all levels, bring lads into the fold who are performing well in the club matches...picking lads that scored 4/5 points in the last round of the club championship on Easter Sunday is no guarantee he will do the same the 2nd Sunday in June against an opposition inter county player...it will add way more interest and draw out more supporters too as club games will be running into inter county games..I know it isn't all plain sailing but its something I personally think would benefit Offaly hurling...our club games are even stale now after big gaps in matches....

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Wing Back
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Wing Back » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:06 pm

timber wrote:
greenairfield wrote:Birr dont even train for football and have reached junior finals and semi finals and almost went senior about 7 years ago what's your point??

North Offaly people are just as arrogant when it comes to south clubs playing football.

We need everyone doing well but if the so called traditional clubs are not doing well ye north men are having a laugh if you think hurling will turn around cos one or two clubs the far side of tullamore have improved!
I'd love to see Birr giving the football some attention. I cant understand why they wouldn't. A big town, surely plenty of lads only mad to kick a ball. No excuses really not to field a team.

My point is, that the south teams that fully concentrate on hurling should be miles ahead of the dual clubs because they have a huge advantage obviously if they are able to prepare solely for that code. Going back nearly 20 years and they were struggling to get wins over dual clubs who I can say first hand had done embarrassingly poor preparation for the hurling championship games. This shows that those traditional hurling clubs were in decline even back then.

Your tone has been very arrogant towards the north and yet you say the south needs to be strong to turn things around. Well bottom line is they are not producing quality. Why are these clubs not performing, what is going on in these clubs. why has the likes of Birr which was a great club fallen back so much? Should these clubs not be getting the finger out and getting their house in order?

And on a separate note, the senior club championship in Offaly lacks intensity. A big problem I think for the current players is the gap between the intensity and pace of the games they play at for their clubs and what they are greeted with at inter county level is huge.
I have said something along these lines before but I have to agree and reiterate that the Birr club really have gone back considerably. The only hurler of note that they have produced in my opinion since the likes of Cleary, Verney and Ryan that actually made the breakthrough was Emmet Nolan (It was an awful shame to lose him for work reasons). Cahill will hopefully grow and match the Fitzgibbon promise he has shown. I may be forgetting someone, but I don't think so. They're players used to backbone every underage Offaly team through the grades in the 90's and 2000's but that source has dried up. I know that good teams/players often come in cycles for clubs and this can be acceptable for some of the more rural clubs who rely on small national school numbers which is fair enough. However the number in Birr could swallow up all the surrounding clubs and it must be tough for the long standing members in Birr to see very little coming through despite this volume. They are one of the most fabled clubs in the country and arguably produced the best club team of any era. And it was this group of players that were responsible for the back bone of the Offaly success of the 90s.

The pick/numbers that they have at underage, and at the moment on our current U20 team and Senior team, there is no outfield representative from the St Brendans Club. It's a sobering thought for a club of their history in hurling and considering the love of the game within Birr, one would wonder what has happened. They used to mop up the underage titles when I was young giving out hidings to many of the other so called hurling strongholds. Something seems to have been lost. I really love the fact that Clodiagh Gaels and Ballinamere more recently and Belmont over the last 15 years have really contributed no end to the county set up. If the former strongholds can reinvigorate the supply of quality hurlers to the underage squads, we might be not as far away as we think. I think that a strong Birr will only raise the standards of all clubs around them because of competition between clubs, hurling together for Birr CS and also on the development squads. I'm clearly not a Birr club man, but it is disappointing that all we hear from Birr (at least on this website) is about bringing a few matches to SBP, when there is a much bigger elephant in the room for their loyal patrons.

#Esto Fidelis
'Babs keating 'resigned' as coach because of illness and fatigue. The players were sick and tired of him'

greenairfield
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by greenairfield » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:41 am

Wing back you and some other guys here pick and choose what you want to hear from the Birr supporters on this site.

I would be a huge advocate of bringing hurling back to Birr but that is only one factor in this whole mess that Offaly find themselves in.

You speak of only producing one hurler since the Verney, Cleary era..well that's not true really when you look at it.

Barry Harding would be good enough to be on Offaly senior team the last 8 years throw in Cleary also neither of them asked in some years, then we were represented by murphy and Nolan over the last couple of years.

Your point makes no sense as we have produced them and they really gave as much to the county scene as much as the lads who were on the panel for years.

There is a small core group of players who hurled for Offaly in recent years Sean Ryan been one of them.
Throw in Dooley,Bergin,Camon and King all other players have played for a couple of years took a year out etc etc.

So you could easily say the same to K/K Rynaghs or any of the other top teams what have they given to the county???you only see what you want to see.

Birr have fallen in recent times but there is no doubt over the next five years there will be a huge change of personal around the Birr senior team full of youth.

Underage results are improving and maybe a few county titles are on the way.

Cliodagh Gaels and Ballinamere still have done nothing at club level only improved a small bit your point is ridiclious.

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Wing Back
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Wing Back » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:27 pm

My thoughts are done with the greatest respect Greenairfield. Some of my comments might seem a little harsh, but really they're a back handed complement to what Birr contribute to Offaly and I guess I'm just trying to outline that I think the birr club are key to success of Offaly hurling. When Birr are going well, Offaly are going well. You made a defence against my comments which I'll try and take individually.
greenairfield wrote:Wing back you and some other guys here pick and choose what you want to hear from the Birr supporters on this site.

I would be a huge advocate of bringing hurling back to Birr but that is only one factor in this whole mess that Offaly find themselves in.
I do read all comments here and try to take them on their merits of where the poster is coming from, but also how they fit within the grand scheme of things and for the good of Offaly hurling. I think all readers here understand that you are particularly passionate about intercounty hurling matches and the club hurling final being brought back to SBP. However you say that this is only 1 factor, however I think that the majority of comments you post either relate directly or indirectly to this factor, with very little on the other factors you refer to. I know you talk about the county board and Tommy Byrne stepping down also, but all I seem to interpret/sense from these comments is that they are against games going to SBP, so therefore they have to go. I know that's not what you posted directly.....but that's my underlying feeling I guess from your comments. I'm sorry if that's not true.
greenairfield wrote:You speak of only producing one hurler since the Verney, Cleary era..well that's not true really when you look at it.

Barry Harding would be good enough to be on Offaly senior team the last 8 years throw in Cleary also neither of them asked in some years, then we were represented by murphy and Nolan over the last couple of years.

Your point makes no sense as we have produced them and they really gave as much to the county scene as much as the lads who were on the panel for years.
Firstly on this one, the effort they gave to the county was never in dispute here. That was never questioned by my comment.

Fair enough, I had considered mentioning Harding. I had also considered Watkins and Murphy, but they have a handful of appearances between the trio and it diluted my point. So I said I'd exclude them. My point wasn't weather you (as a birr member) think they are good enough like you say, it's about making the step up regardless of what anyone thinks and making a debut and holding a regular position/squad place on the county team for a season or two at least. I think Paul Cleary made his debut in 2005 against Kilkenny, Ryan and Verney I think were probably 2006 I'd say. That's 13/14 years ago now for those, but considering in that time the above trio(Harding, Watkins and Murphy)as well as Nolan and now Cahill are the only new faces to represent Offaly from St Brendans, it just seems like a poor return considering the population/numbers, resources and history of St Brendans in comparison to the much smaller clubs.

My point is about new faces who have come in and made an impact(played regularly). And I take your point on Harding I suppose, but other than that, there is only Nolan and Cahill in my opinion who have made the breakthrough in that 13/14 year period. Its hard to argue that its been anything other than very few. So I think my point still stands true.
greenairfield wrote:There is a small core group of players who hurled for Offaly in recent years Sean Ryan been one of them.
Throw in Dooley,Bergin,Camon and King all other players have played for a couple of years took a year out etc etc.

So you could easily say the same to K/K Rynaghs or any of the other top teams what have they given to the county???you only see what you want to see.
I agree that the same rhetoric should apply to KK and Rynaghs as they (although not as big as Birr) do have much larger populations to pull from compared to many of the rural clubs around them. However both KK and Rynaghs both have a reasonable amount of outfield players on the current Senior and/or U20 team. It was only an observation that there is currently no outfield player from the Birr club on either the latest Offaly Senior or U20 team. So really my observation still holds true.

What I'm getting at is that without a reasonable Birr contingent Offaly are struggling. A strong Birr team equalled strong Offaly in the past and I'm just trying to link the two again. Many in Offaly probably took for granted how much Birr contributed to the success in the 90's.
greenairfield wrote:Birr have fallen in recent times but there is no doubt over the next five years there will be a huge change of personal around the Birr senior team full of youth.

Underage results are improving and maybe a few county titles are on the way.
It's good to see that work is being done and that underage is improving for the Birr club. Maybe this will bare fruit not just for Birr, but for Offaly hopefully also.
greenairfield wrote:Cliodagh Gaels and Ballinamere still have done nothing at club level only improved a small bit your point is ridiclious.
If you read my comment again, you'll see that I didn't mention anything about how Ballinamere or Clodiagh Gaels have done at club level. I was simply making an observation that it's great to see these areas contributing so well to the current squads. Something that wasn't always there in the past. So I'm not sure how that point is ridiculous.

Overall though, I don't post very often and keep my views to myself usually. I like your passion even if I don't always agree with some of your points. It's clear to me that on top of hurling development in all areas of the county and putting proper structures in place, and despite me being from a rival club, if the faithful supporters are to go on a pilgrimage to Jones's Road in the future and rekindle some of the dreams of old, Offaly needs a well oiled Birr. Simple as that.

#Esto Fidelis
'Babs keating 'resigned' as coach because of illness and fatigue. The players were sick and tired of him'

greenairfield
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by greenairfield » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:02 pm

I might have picked you up wrong as I thought you were having a pop at the club directly so I apologise on that matter.

I will take the Tommy Byrne topic first it has infact noting to do with St.Brendans Park me wanting change at this position it's more he has made some bad appointments at management level and he didnt see that the player pathway was implented and too be quiet perfectly honest the way we have fallen he has to take responsibility( take the fai for example look what is happening with regarding board level cos of the level we are performing at)- change is needed...and for him to actual RESIST change is worrying and frustrating as a supporter.

My second point is yes I do think hurling should be in Birr because the south of the county has lost its passion spirit or whatever you want to call it from hurling been moved to Tullamore.

Think about moving football to St.Brendans Park for 10 years it would too have a knock on affect in the north of the county for football and that's not me been arrogant it's me been brutally honest...I am not saying it's the reason we are in Christy Ring but I do believe it is a factor.

On top of that yes of course we need Birr going well like we do all clubs..have we improve at underage yes is there work to be done yes. We face many challenges more than alot of clubs but it's a working progress.

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