Joe McDonagh cup

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
User avatar
Lone Shark
All Star
Posts: 5224
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:21 pm
Club: Ferbane
Location: Back Home!
Contact:

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Lone Shark » Wed May 22, 2019 3:22 pm

I'd be quare disappointed if getting involved in sideshows like that is the way this management team have chosen to go about their project. I'd also be hugely surprised if that turns out to be true.

If the players' attitudes and mindsets are right, they'll be fine, regardless of where the matches are played.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

greenairfield
All Star
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:20 pm
Club: birr

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by greenairfield » Wed May 22, 2019 4:29 pm

Maybe look at one of the real facts of why the heart and soul has been ripped out of Offaly hurling...a game in Birr might do them the world of good.

allstar2010
All Star
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by allstar2010 » Wed May 22, 2019 10:44 pm

Bord na Mona man wrote:
greenairfield wrote:Talking to people who are in the know they are saying Offaly want the Antrim game in Birr..interesting if so. :)
Antrim would want the game in Birr given that their record is 4 wins and 2 losses in the 'fortress'. :lol:
:D :D

User avatar
Geansai Gorm
Intermediate
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:34 am
Club: Ballycommon

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Geansai Gorm » Wed May 22, 2019 11:48 pm

greenairfield wrote:Maybe look at one of the real facts of why the heart and soul has been ripped out of Offaly hurling...a game in Birr might do them the world of good.
If this is the reason for the 'slump' then we have bigger problems than I thought. Any player worth his salt shouldn't care if the game was played in my back yard once he has the tricolour on his back!
This old Birr/OCP divide gets us nowhere. Pure bollox! Apologies for the language, but it is necessary.

biffinbanner
County player
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:15 pm
Club: ferbane

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by biffinbanner » Thu May 23, 2019 8:53 am

when i see people putting up stuff about playing in tullamore or birr i realise we have bigger problems than i thought..a field is a field. 15 against 15 . our record in birr against antrim is we won 2 games against them out of 6 so maybe that is the end of that particular argument?!!?

greenairfield
All Star
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:20 pm
Club: birr

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by greenairfield » Thu May 23, 2019 9:55 am

Some day the people of Offaly will realise it's not about the field of course it's not but it's about the support the passion where the heart of Offaly hurling was the birr area.

We took it out of there and put it down the far side of tullamore...Offaly hurling has lost its identity that is one of the many reasons we have fallen!

Fairplayalways
County player
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:12 pm

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Fairplayalways » Thu May 23, 2019 10:13 am

we might differ on somethings, but I have to agree with the above post, and no disrespect or anything to anyone associated with Tullamore or its environs, as an avid Offaly hurling supporter I have to say, even personally, the journeys to Tullamore which I made in the initial days soon dried up, so much hassle queing to get into the town, over the last few years a nice speedvan in Mucklagh on some match days, parking, well, now the residence are very patient people we will say in fairness. A lovely pitch and fine facility, but with young children, all that hassle, sorry I,and I know I am not alone, voted with our feet. I know people from East Galway, both players and supporters, went to school and hurled with them, would be at Offaly SHC games in Birr, like me, they say its too far and too much hassle. It is how it is, not saying we are correct with our views and approach, but one has to be practical too with family and children to consider, some don't mind all the hassle, some do fortunately or unfortunately, depending on ones circumstances. Lets hope we get a bit of a bounce for next 2 games, which I hope to attend.

SearingDrive
All Star
Posts: 714
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by SearingDrive » Thu May 23, 2019 10:42 am

Fairplayalways wrote:we might differ on somethings, but I have to agree with the above post, and no disrespect or anything to anyone associated with Tullamore or its environs, as an avid Offaly hurling supporter I have to say, even personally, the journeys to Tullamore which I made in the initial days soon dried up, so much hassle queing to get into the town, over the last few years a nice speedvan in Mucklagh on some match days, parking, well, now the residence are very patient people we will say in fairness. A lovely pitch and fine facility, but with young children, all that hassle, sorry I,and I know I am not alone, voted with our feet. I know people from East Galway, both players and supporters, went to school and hurled with them, would be at Offaly SHC games in Birr, like me, they say its too far and too much hassle. It is how it is, not saying we are correct with our views and approach, but one has to be practical too with family and children to consider, some don't mind all the hassle, some do fortunately or unfortunately, depending on ones circumstances. Lets hope we get a bit of a bounce for next 2 games, which I hope to attend.
Offaly's problems have nothing to do with venues. We just don't have the players to compete at the top level presently.

greenairfield
All Star
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:20 pm
Club: birr

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by greenairfield » Thu May 23, 2019 10:54 am

The player pathway for Offaly which was put together to benefit Offaly hurlere by the likes of Brian Carroll and Liam Hogan one of the key findings was to bring more games back to Birr.

Some of you guys on here love to turn a blind eye to that finding done you?

User avatar
Geansai Gorm
Intermediate
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:34 am
Club: Ballycommon

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Geansai Gorm » Thu May 23, 2019 12:20 pm

Fairplayalways wrote:we might differ on somethings, but I have to agree with the above post, and no disrespect or anything to anyone associated with Tullamore or its environs, as an avid Offaly hurling supporter I have to say, even personally, the journeys to Tullamore which I made in the initial days soon dried up, so much hassle queing to get into the town, over the last few years a nice speedvan in Mucklagh on some match days, parking, well, now the residence are very patient people we will say in fairness. A lovely pitch and fine facility, but with young children, all that hassle, sorry I,and I know I am not alone, voted with our feet. I know people from East Galway, both players and supporters, went to school and hurled with them, would be at Offaly SHC games in Birr, like me, they say its too far and too much hassle. It is how it is, not saying we are correct with our views and approach, but one has to be practical too with family and children to consider, some don't mind all the hassle, some do fortunately or unfortunately, depending on ones circumstances. Lets hope we get a bit of a bounce for next 2 games, which I hope to attend.
The exact same point can be made for those who live in Central and East Offaly if matches were moved to Birr. I know Portumna is half the distance to Birr as Tullamore is from Birr, but I'd rather see us accomodate Offaly people than galwegians.
Venue choice is an excuse, and one that should not be considered. This whole "hurling heartland" is an anachronism which needs to be dismantled. Push out the base development to the rest of the county, take advantage of the population you have.

biffinbanner
County player
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:15 pm
Club: ferbane

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by biffinbanner » Thu May 23, 2019 1:45 pm

so what about the huge north offALY AREA OF OFFALY HURLING SUPPORTERS? we would rather accomedate galway people who might go to an odd game on birr? id be all for some games in birr but using not playing games in birr as an excuse for recent performances is grasping at straws..

Hankscorpio
Junior B
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:03 pm

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Hankscorpio » Thu May 23, 2019 1:58 pm

I have decided to vote with my feet also... I will no longer attend an Offaly football match unless it's held in Rhode. It is the heartland of football in the county and I don't see why games are held in Tullamore to accommodate people from South Offaly....

There is no doubt in my mind that if the games were held in Rhode then Offaly footballers would win Leinster this year and surely by 2022 we would have Sam sitting back in Doyle's Bar for the 40th anniversary of our finest hour.

Fairplayalways
County player
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:12 pm

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Fairplayalways » Thu May 23, 2019 2:01 pm

well look back (I know we are not meant to be dwelling on past glories!) at the late 1970's and early 1980's, it was schools in Birr, Banagher, Roscrea, Lorrha etc. (despite being in Tipp children from Coolderry, Kinnity, Shinrone, Clareen, Ballyskenagh etc. Eyrecourt, Killimor, Portumna, etc in Galway all went to schools in these towns, the secondary schools in these towns were winning All Ireland A titles, some competing/winning in College finals, and County Voc schools All Irelands going on to hurl minor with their respective counties, this is why there was an overlap in support and likewise from Offaly into Galway and Tipp for their respective County finals, I hurled myself in those days, and I remember 1 player from North Offaly(and yes he was very good hurler indeed) making the County Voc Schools Offaly team, as I say this is nothing personal about North Offaly, the record speaks for itself whether hurling was better in Birr or Tullamore, if the roles were switched around and a football hub was built if Birr, would North Offaly not vote with their feet, if the county were not winning and look at the structures in place for game locations?? of course they would..look at the facts of the matter, how is Offaly hurling doing since OCP was made county ground for all codes....you can have what you like in it for kids etc, meeting past stars etc..before big matches, and at half time, its spending your hard earned dosh at the end of the day, result of the game and time involved travelling to and fro and parking that will decide if you will continue to attend....

Fairplayalways
County player
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:12 pm

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Fairplayalways » Thu May 23, 2019 2:07 pm

Birr and Saint Rynaghs, Coolderry and KK have delivered leinster Club and All Ireland Club Championships within the last 25 years, have we to go back to Ferbane in 1986 for last Offaly team to win a LSFC,...Walsh Island winning the two in last 1970's is 40 years ago now, is that still recent enough to bring games to Rhode...

shannonbanks14
County player
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 10:15 am

Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by shannonbanks14 » Thu May 23, 2019 2:16 pm

substandard wrote:It's Kevin Martin's fault.
It's the County Board's fault.
It's the players' fault.
It's OCP's fault.
It's the underage fault.
It's the Development Squad's fault.
It's the South Offaly clubs' fault.
It's the North Offaly clubs' fault.
It's Tommy Burns' fault.
It's (insert previous manager's name) fault.
It's the Plan's fault.
It's the lack of a Plan's fault.
(Space to add targets as you wish).

I'm two years away from the Offaly club scene now- and because I'm an outsider and football- oriented, I'm probably not justified in commenting about Offaly hurling. Please stop reading at this point if you are so inclined.

I've been listening to talk and reading about the demise of Offaly hurling over 10 years now.
That's the span of a lot of inter-county careers. As I have listed above, pot-shots are taken at any number of targets at any given time. Some features more frequently than others.

It's very easy to take aim. The County Board- scheming away at new ways to drag Offaly hurling (and football) down. Kevin Martin- surely he runs any lad that can hurl, and deliberately tells players to do things badly for fear that they might win a game. The blame game is easy: all you have to do is say 'Shure they (management, whatever team or code) haven't a clue', and 'Shure the players are shite, they don't care about the jersey'.
Equally easy to blast about OCP vs Birr. The development squads. The schools.
Launch a rant about any of the above, and straight away you've made friends. Lads will back you up in the smoking section of pubs, or outside the local shop, or after mass- or on online chat forums. Women will, too. It becomes a way of life. It's easy, and it's dangerous. It fosters apathy, a culture of victim-hood, and it weighs down any effort to progress.
Does outrage make you a true Offaly GAA person? Does chest-thumping and railing about any of the failings of officials, coaches, players, etc show how much you care- more than any of the aforementioned? Immediately, self-righteous-ness is engaged. So you are a paid member of your club. So you've been doing this, that and the other for years. So you buy tickets and pay into every game you go to.
Well, hoo-haa. Big deal.
You see, you're responsible for the current state of affairs as well. You're partially culpable. You have contributed to the mess as well.
What- moi? Surely not- I do my best, all that I can. Sure I've no say in what happens day to day. I haven't time to get involved. That's someone else's job. I don't go to meetings. I drop the young lad off to training, or I bring him to matches now and again.

You see the dangers of the blame game. People go into defensive mode. And if you're in defensive mode, you'll look for excuses- someone else to blame. Spread enough blame around, and you create a toxic atmosphere. Everything grinds to a halt. Carlow are training teams, hurling and football. Likely with similar numbers to Offaly, in hurling and football- I'm talking county squads, not clubs. They've probably broadly similar numbers of coaches, probably with similar qualifications. But they're operating under the 'Carlow Rising' banner. They're operating in an altogether more positive atmosphere. Easier to coach in. Easier to play in. Easier to support.

Looking at problems, excuses and blame are easy. Solutions are not so easy. Start at the bottom is the easy suggestion, or put money into underage is another. See, these ones are higher order thinking variants of the blame game. If you say these, you show that you are sage and forward-thinking compared with the ranters and railers I was in about earlier. All good and well: start what at the bottom? Where is the bottom? What will money do in underage? Now, my sample size is admittedly very small- I've brought this up with three people I've spoken to. They were borderline evangelical when it came to stating what should be done, I.e. start at the bottom, and pump money into underage, but when pressed, it tailed off into a vague 'You know, coaching and stuff...'. In other words, they didn't know.
You see, this is the thing. In The Hitchhiker 's Guide to the Galaxy, the answer to the ultimate question of Life, the Universe and Everything was 42. A concrete, definitive answer- it was the question that lacked clarity. At the start of this, I listed as many of the usual causes of the problems with Offaly hurling as they get trotted out, off the top of my head. In thinking about solutions, you need to simplify the problem. Cut away all the hyperbole, and identify what can be done. What needs to happen at this point in Offaly needs to be new, radical, easy to implement, and most importantly, measurable.
While schools have a role and need to be addressed, the primary focus should be on clubs, and the onus is on clubs.
The standard of coaching and developing competitiveness has to improve dramatically in clubs. It may well be tough medicine for some, but I guarantee you, if you look at your own club, how many mentors are involved with teams that are just not good enough, or are stuck in the past, or are only there because no-one else will take on the role, or- and this is the most urgently in need of rectifying: the local legend who has always taken the u14s or 16s and won plenty of titles because he has always had one or two big lads or skilful lads to carry the team through, with zero development of skills or two-sides?
I have a suggestion that I think would help improve standards across the board at club level, but I've ran out of energy and time at this point.

There has been enough time spent/ wasted on blame. Solutions is what Offaly needs, not the same old, same old.
Will have to keep bumpin this up as Plain said. This the most to the point post that has ever been put up, talking about tg4, birr/tullamore etc. pure muck.

Post Reply