Joe McDonagh cup

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
biffinbanner
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by biffinbanner » Mon May 20, 2019 8:16 pm

good chance we might have beaten antrim and kerry anyway with kevin in charge. whats going to happen if we win the 2 games? is it over til the league next spring?

kingscounty
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by kingscounty » Mon May 20, 2019 8:23 pm

biffinbanner wrote:good chance we might have beaten antrim and kerry anyway with kevin in charge. whats going to happen if we win the 2 games? is it over til the league next spring?
It’s looking like a straight shoot out between Westmeath and Laois so spring it probably will be

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bracknaghboy
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by bracknaghboy » Mon May 20, 2019 9:05 pm

biffinbanner wrote:good chance we might have beaten antrim and kerry anyway with kevin in charge.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt biff and assume you weren't in Mullingar Saturday. If you were theres no way you'd have any confidence in the current set up winning either of these games.
Relieving Kevin Martin of his post is a necessary evil to see can this panel get a little bounce ahead of the Antrim game and you'd have to think Joachims fiery style might just do that in the short term (Paul Rouse style) but it all depends just how scarred the players are now. 1 win in the last 17 competitive games is unacceptable in anyones book and the future (however bleak that looks right now) must come first so if a new manager offers the best hope of avoiding Christy Ring then thats what needed to happen.
I actually think this change could nearly have happened after the Carlow relegation defeat.
Offaly hurling is a very very complicated thing and in fact has always been.

biffinbanner
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by biffinbanner » Mon May 20, 2019 9:20 pm

i wasnt backnagh.. i keep thinking were better than we are. i was sure we would beat westmeath.but maybe i need a reality check..after about 20 in the last 19 years..

SearingDrive
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by SearingDrive » Mon May 20, 2019 9:27 pm

biffinbanner wrote:i wasnt backnagh.. i keep thinking were better than we are. i was sure we would beat westmeath.but maybe i need a reality check..after about 20 in the last 19 years..
Saturday was hard to watch. Westmeath far better.

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Lone Shark
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Lone Shark » Mon May 20, 2019 9:34 pm

There's a lot of stuff on this thread that is significant material and I want to get back to it, but for now, I'll just say this. Kevin Martin is a good guy with the best interests of Offaly hurling at heart, and it's not his fault that we are where we are right now. However in the post-match interview after the Westmeath game, he openly admitted that he didn't know what the problem was. With members of the management team leaving, players showing a complete lack of confidence, I do believe that this was the right course of action right now. It's also a known phenomenon that when the manager is perceived to be the problem, the players can hide a little bit because they're not going to get the blame - and there's no doubt that even allowing for everything that's going on, a lot of good hurlers are underperforming right now. This could force an upturn in that regard.

My gut feeling is that Offaly's chances of avoiding relegation to the Christy Ring cup have improved on the basis of tonight's events.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by allstar2010 » Mon May 20, 2019 10:16 pm

Up to the players now to show us if there’s anything in them. Two matches now to save face and avoid relegation. Fair play to Kevin Martin right decision to step away, players shaking their heads all over the place on sat now it’s up to them, no hiding. Fair play to Brian Carroll for calling them out.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Bord na Mona man » Mon May 20, 2019 10:41 pm

Unfortunately from about January it became increasingly likely that this was going to be Kevin Martin's last year in the job. It is slightly surprising that it has been cut two games short, but with the possibility of the drop, I can see why the decision was made.
It is a disappointing end for a man who has contributed a huge amount to the county so far in his hurling career. Think back to last year and the performances in Croke Park against Dublin and the epic league quarter final battle against Kilkenny.
As we're well aware, Offaly struggle to win primary possession and struggle to keep it. Therefore they have to work their asses off to hustle the opposition in order to keep parity in games. If the team isn't absolutely firing, then we're in trouble. That's also why we rarely (or never) see two consecutive big performances from an Offaly hurling team and why round robin formats don't suit.

The team badly needs to pick it up immediately and I can see why a rousing character like Joachim has been chosen. Let's hope he quickly gets a positive reaction.

substandard
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by substandard » Mon May 20, 2019 10:45 pm

kingscounty wrote:.
And now for the solution please[/quote]

When I glanced at this first and saw solution, I thought 'Oh Jesus, did I say solution- I was definitely getting carried away so!!'.
No, it was suggestion, thankfully. Firstly, an evening can be a long time in Offaly GAA, as I've just seen about Kevin Martin. I see it's Joachim now, so I'm hoping for the Solskjaer effect in the short-term for the next two games, even though when the tide goes back out, there's every chance he'll get beached also.
I think there was a thread before about what to do to help improve hurling fortunes (or maybe it was football), so maybe this is pulling away from the current topic, but I'll try and keep it sharp and brief. I was on about something similar before regarding initiating a county-wide s/c program, rather than it being the preserve of players in the development squads, so this is much the same. The theory is that clubs are grouped by playing population/ proximity into 3 groups, or maybe 4- that number can be adjusted. Every 3rd Saturday or Sunday morning, all say 14s, 15s, 16s are brought together, and are coached by level one coaches (from inside or outside the county) on specific elements (age appropriate/ customised), and over time are monitored and assessed. I'm thinking a step-by-step process, from correct body position, movement, execution, and fast-track to executing the skill under pressure. It would be up to the club coaches to continue building these skills into their teams by incorporating it into their training.
I saw the county seniors training one night (granted, numbers were low that particular night because of club and college commitments), and they were playing a game that was so loose it was virtually non-contact. I've seen a couple of other age groups training- and again I stress, only for a few minutes at a time, but would rarely see a ruck around a breaking ball, and little or no aerial contests, which are the basics of intercounty hurling anymore.
There are probably a lot of grey areas in what I'm suggesting, but I think it's the quickest way to raise the standards across the board in the clubs. Clubs aren't losing their best players to county squad training all the time, and more players are getting exposure to higher level training. Better club teams will make better schools teams, better county squads, better club seniors and better county seniors.
One final disclaimer: I'm not running down club coaches, or saying that there isn't potentially enough coaches already within the clubs to drive a plan like this- it's only a suggestion to help or augment them, not to impugn them.
Sidenote: I wish the current seniors well for the rest of the season. It's easy be a Limerick county hurler, or this week a Cork county hurler. I hope that they can avoid the unthinkable this year, and sooner rather than later they can get back to the top table.

timber
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by timber » Mon May 20, 2019 11:05 pm

Best of luck to kevin. he took on a very difficult job. a good guy.

If Offaly are ever going to tackle the problems that are there, id hope there is a major cleanup on the board.

If managers of teams are being made accountable for these performances, its about time the head of the county board was made accountable.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Wingforward » Tue May 21, 2019 9:07 am

I've been reading all the posts, newspaper articles and even social media posts calling for the county boards head and saying Kevin Martin is a nice guy etc etc etc. Nice guys finish last is the saying isn't it?

For anyone at the game on Saturday, they will know that performance was abysmal... And all joking aside, Management have to be held accountable. Conor Mahon started Corner Forward, Pat Camon centre back, Camon is a poor club center back and then some of our best hurlers in the county rotting on the bench in Kevin Connolly, Shane Kinsella to name a couple. They can say all they want about the county board (its been ongoing for years) we can't blame them for how poorly prepared the team were and are.

Disgruntled Offaly man :oops:

Fairplayalways
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Fairplayalways » Tue May 21, 2019 10:35 am

to be honest reading all above, and all that has happened Offaly hurling, not only over the last few years, but going back to the 2000 All Ireland when many believe was the beginning of the end..Ill go back a little further, and the leinster finals of 1998,99, and 2000, we were well beaten in one or two of them and comprehensively beaten in at least one by Kilkenny, we did "snatch" the AI after in 1998, basically the pot was re-stirred and all was reheated and we got over the line. After 2000 AI, the cracks that were there from the Leinster Finals of the previous years were more prominent, we got to a Leinster Final I think 2004, after that the cracks were now holes and players, managers came and went. Brian Whelehan was the chosen one when apparently no one else would take the job, I honestly cannot remember how his tenure ended but I do recall it was kind of similar to Kevin Martins somehow (not the failure in the lower competitions but it was a defeat of some sort or other, as I say, off the top of my head I just cannot recall the exact game or situation, I do remember though similar tones to the current situation. Anyway, fast forwarding to the current situation, yes, many were surprised at some of the players on the bench on Saturday, and other games, MF up and forwards, yes changes are possible, defence is a bit trickier, with some players in the county opting out, I honestly don't see too much scope for personnel change in defence, we seen some of the so called lesser players in the league, and well, no point going there. Barring the 3-21 or whatever it was against Laois, over the last number of years we simply have not produced the number of forwards required to be competitive. Our good day was Brian Carroll hitting 1-08 or Shane Dooley hitting 0-12, break it down then and maybe Carroll in fairness got 1-03 from play or so, the majority of Dooleys scores were always frees, he did score goals now and then I know, but that's exactly it, now and then. Credit the Carroll and Dooley, outside them the pickings were frightful, this player 0-02, and then 3-4 others players 0-01 each, now tot up all the above and average score comes back of around 1-15 most days, NOT enough to win a county match over the last 15-20 years. There was a time when it would be sufficient to beat the Lower tier teams, JMCD cups and CR cups etc. but at that scoring 1-15 we would end up only winning by 7/8 points maybe..now these teams have caught up on us, we are still trotting out these type of scores, the gap has closed, over taken us in many ways, hence we are loosing to these teams..and to be fair again to Dooley and Carroll, the days they were contained from play, well need I say anymore. Give out about our defence all day, but that's the way hurling is gone, its fast moving scoring forwards, our backs are not conceding any more than most of the teams at the so called top table, but we have not, and don't have, the number of scoring forwards the top table teams have. I am not blaming the lads that are there, fair dues to them for committing in what must be awful circumstances, but if you concede 3-18 in any game now and this has been the situation over the last 15 years or so, you have to be piping over a combined 30 points the other end, we don't have, currently, that type of fire power. I know, yes, there are other issues also, basic things to many, our warm ups were reported as "very quiet" affairs, no talking, shouting, or communication, these are things management can and should be able to fix. Joachim has it all to do over the next 2 weeks or so..I wish him and all the lads well, and thank Kevin Martin for his time in what, like many of his predecessors since September 2000, has been a very difficult job. In ways for Kevin Martin, its has been a bit like " last out, turn off the lights", he didn't go in with that outcome in mind, that's for sure. Hopefully, we can save our selves in the weeks ahead.

Killeighman
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Killeighman » Tue May 21, 2019 12:43 pm

This can be turned around. Like Brian Carroll said on Midlands 103 over the weekend players need to play in their most natural positions so the best can be got out of them. The blame of what has gone on in the long and short term has to be shared with the county board and Kevin Martin. Firstly the county board have not covered themselves in glory with managerial appointments alone. For example look at them picking Kevin Ryan over Joe Quaid a few years ago. Anyway the real problem comes down to the grassroots at clubs and county development squads. That’s an ongoing issue but FairPlay in the last number of years they’ve got a start on that and hopefully we’ll see some benefit from it in 5 or 10 years time.

Kevin Martin is a nice guy with the best interests of Offaly Gaa at heart and he didn’t want any of this mess to happen but that can happen when you get stuck in a rut and the whole camp can be dragged down. I don’t know if there was discontent in the camp or what but they don’t look like a united group. When the chips are down they should have each other’s back and it really didn’t look like that from the outside looking in. That was evident on the field on Saturday. Full credit must go to Westmeath they didn’t let Offaly hurl and they deservedly hammered us and there is no other word for it.

Killian Doyle was allowed to anything he wanted down to Pat Camon being 5 yards off him every time. A simple change of putting Tom Spain on Doyle would have done a lot. Spain is arguably the tightest Offaly defender. If you didn’t want to use the sub then Ben Connelly could’ve moved out into what is probably his natural position. People give out about the players on the bench but most of them had injuries and were not hurling games so match fitness would not have been there which I can see where Kevin was coming from with that aspect.

What’s done is done now and Offaly still have to play two games to ensure survival so i wish Joachim all the best for the next 3 weeks and hope we pick up the two wins needed for survival. Does anyone know what Joachims backroom team is for the next number of weeks?

Fairplayalways
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Fairplayalways » Tue May 21, 2019 2:18 pm

no more than most above, all make very valid and proper points, no word of selectors, I am thinking he will probably bring in some of his Coolderry contingent with him, a Lusmagh man surely (not sure what John Troy is at at the moment or if he would be suited)...he would have a few wingmen and may get them in..or maybe the county board might impose someone on him...I really hope we stabilize things at least...

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Wing Back
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Wing Back » Tue May 21, 2019 3:00 pm

Haven't posted in a while. The whole situation we find ourselves in is disheartening. I'm not going to add any further to what has been said about the various issues.

I hope Joachim can instil some confidence back into the group in a short period of time. Please god he can steady the ship and have the team in reasonable shape mentally for a tough game with Antrim.

One question though.....

If we lose to Antrim, does the game versus Kerry become immaterial, as we enter a relegation play off regardless. or is it a case that the bottom team goes down with no play off?

#Esto Fidelis
'Babs keating 'resigned' as coach because of illness and fatigue. The players were sick and tired of him'

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