Joe McDonagh cup

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
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Lone Shark
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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Lone Shark » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:21 am

greenairfield wrote:we will leave Tommy there in fairness to him hes doing a great job..
You don't think Tommy Byrne is a good chairman - we get it. There's no doubt that there are serious black marks on his tenure, and everyone (myself included) would like to see a contest for the position in November, that's a viewpoint most people can agree on.

However how can you think it's a good idea to just remove someone from the job, without the slightest idea who will succeed him??? Surely, surely, the first question has to be that if the county board chairman isn't Tommy Byrne, who will it be? If the world of politics has taught us nothing, it's that no matter how bad you think you have it, things can always get worse. Right now, the serving UK prime minister is Theresa May. People want her gone, so they're going to get Boris Johnson. Chances are when he goes, next in will be Nigel Farage. I can only assume the next step after that will be some sort of drunk Georgie Shore cast member, since that's the only possible downgrade from there, and even then I'm not sure it could be any worse. This is what happens when you pull the trigger without thinking through the logical next steps.

It's not good enough to say that we need "someone else" without specifying who that someone might be, and why you think that person would have the slightest interest in doing the job. You're a Birr man, so I'll use an example - if someone like John Irwin or Rory Hanniffy wanted to put their hand up, I'd definitely listen to what they had to say and I'd be very positively disposed towards them. I could list people from most clubs in Offaly where I'd say the same. But until one of those people offers to take on the role and everything involved in it, then that means nothing.

Here's what we do know. The last time Tommy's position was contested, the two other contenders for the job were Fergal McKeon and Joe Higgins. In the lead up to that election, I asked all three men to do an interview, to actually discuss the key issues affecting the county, so that ordinary club members could consider their options. Of the three men in the race, Tommy Byrne was the only one willing to do that. The other two men didn't even consider speaking to GAA people in the county an exercise worth doing. Now you might say they still would have been an improvement, but I don't believe they would have been, in fact I think things would now be much worse if we had either of them.

It's not good enough to say that Tommy Byrne isn't (in your opinion) is good as some ideal candidate who has expressed no interest whatsoever in the role. You have to explain what will happen next, and why Offaly will be better off afterwards.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by kingscounty » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:08 am

Lone Shark wrote:
greenairfield wrote:we will leave Tommy there in fairness to him hes doing a great job..
You don't think Tommy Byrne is a good chairman - we get it. There's no doubt that there are serious black marks on his tenure, and everyone (myself included) would like to see a contest for the position in November, that's a viewpoint most people can agree on.

However how can you think it's a good idea to just remove someone from the job, without the slightest idea who will succeed him??? Surely, surely, the first question has to be that if the county board chairman isn't Tommy Byrne, who will it be? If the world of politics has taught us nothing, it's that no matter how bad you think you have it, things can always get worse. Right now, the serving UK prime minister is Theresa May. People want her gone, so they're going to get Boris Johnson. Chances are when he goes, next in will be Nigel Farage. I can only assume the next step after that will be some sort of drunk Georgie Shore cast member, since that's the only possible downgrade from there, and even then I'm not sure it could be any worse. This is what happens when you pull the trigger without thinking through the logical next steps.

It's not good enough to say that we need "someone else" without specifying who that someone might be, and why you think that person would have the slightest interest in doing the job. You're a Birr man, so I'll use an example - if someone like John Irwin or Rory Hanniffy wanted to put their hand up, I'd definitely listen to what they had to say and I'd be very positively disposed towards them. I could list people from most clubs in Offaly where I'd say the same. But until one of those people offers to take on the role and everything involved in it, then that means nothing.

Here's what we do know. The last time Tommy's position was contested, the two other contenders for the job were Fergal McKeon and Joe Higgins. In the lead up to that election, I asked all three men to do an interview, to actually discuss the key issues affecting the county, so that ordinary club members could consider their options. Of the three men in the race, Tommy Byrne was the only one willing to do that. The other two men didn't even consider speaking to GAA people in the county an exercise worth doing. Now you might say they still would have been an improvement, but I don't believe they would have been, in fact I think things would now be much worse if we had either of them.

It's not good enough to say that Tommy Byrne isn't (in your opinion) is good as some ideal candidate who has expressed no interest whatsoever in the role. You have to explain what will happen next, and why Offaly will be better off afterwards.
Can you post the interview you did with Tommy Byrne, it might enlighten us as to why the bottom has falling out of Offaly Hurling.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Lone Shark » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:05 am

I can't, for the simple reason that the instruction from my editor was to either get all three, or leave it - and you can see why, because to give airtime to one and not to others would be seen as bias. When the other two declined, that was the end of the idea.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by biffinbanner » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:17 am

can someone explain to me why people cant see the reality of the situation? we were spoilt for 20 years and we enjoyed it all immensly.now were going through managers rapidly.one in little over a year i think is our average.so its all down to the managers?i think not.i dont believe brian cody would have saved us from the christy ring. the joachim interview on rte radio saturday after the kerry match was very revealing and as emotional and sad as he was he stated a very important facts. the county is divided(not by lack of support from either side) north and south . football/ hurling. the hurling area is within 10 miles of birr. a small geographical area.so maybe we just have to realise we havent got the players capable of being competitive at a high level we got to realise this and lower our expectations as to what we can achieve(at the moment,lets hope we get another golden generation ) from this.people point to our success at leinster club level as being a reason why we can be successful? we got a small number of competitive senior clubs. cork have 58.so were at a disadvantage obviously straight away. do people think if we get in a new chairman we suddenly lead to an upturn in our fortunes? what will he /she do to achieve this? hearing about chairmen at other more successful countys it seems a good chairman is mostly about ensuring teams are supported financially and and physically etc. i dont hear too many rumblings recently from offaly players hurling or football about lack of support etc? john maughan hasnt expressed any difficultys about support from the county board? i dont know tommy byrne from adam but a bit of realism about things would be a start.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by greenairfield » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:23 am

Tommy Byrne must go!
There is always someone better to step in specially at this stage when we are literally on the ground.

Change is needed and if you cant see that we are at noting and its people like you who has there, because you are supporting people like Mr.Byrne.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Lone Shark » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:53 am

greenairfield wrote:Tommy Byrne must go!
There is always someone better to step in specially at this stage when we are literally on the ground.
And again I will ask - what evidence have you to suggest that there is someone better? You can't just make a statement that goes against all evidence (the evidence being the lack of candidates) and expect people to take it as fact. If Offaly hurling has taught us nothing else over the last two decades, it's that there is no such thing as rock bottom - things can always get worse.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by timber » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:55 am

Lone Shark wrote:
greenairfield wrote:we will leave Tommy there in fairness to him hes doing a great job..
You don't think Tommy Byrne is a good chairman - we get it. There's no doubt that there are serious black marks on his tenure, and everyone (myself included) would like to see a contest for the position in November, that's a viewpoint most people can agree on.

However how can you think it's a good idea to just remove someone from the job, without the slightest idea who will succeed him??? Surely, surely, the first question has to be that if the county board chairman isn't Tommy Byrne, who will it be? If the world of politics has taught us nothing, it's that no matter how bad you think you have it, things can always get worse. Right now, the serving UK prime minister is Theresa May. People want her gone, so they're going to get Boris Johnson. Chances are when he goes, next in will be Nigel Farage. I can only assume the next step after that will be some sort of drunk Georgie Shore cast member, since that's the only possible downgrade from there, and even then I'm not sure it could be any worse. This is what happens when you pull the trigger without thinking through the logical next steps.

It's not good enough to say that we need "someone else" without specifying who that someone might be, and why you think that person would have the slightest interest in doing the job. You're a Birr man, so I'll use an example - if someone like John Irwin or Rory Hanniffy wanted to put their hand up, I'd definitely listen to what they had to say and I'd be very positively disposed towards them. I could list people from most clubs in Offaly where I'd say the same. But until one of those people offers to take on the role and everything involved in it, then that means nothing.

Here's what we do know. The last time Tommy's position was contested, the two other contenders for the job were Fergal McKeon and Joe Higgins. In the lead up to that election, I asked all three men to do an interview, to actually discuss the key issues affecting the county, so that ordinary club members could consider their options. Of the three men in the race, Tommy Byrne was the only one willing to do that. The other two men didn't even consider speaking to GAA people in the county an exercise worth doing. Now you might say they still would have been an improvement, but I don't believe they would have been, in fact I think things would now be much worse if we had either of them.

It's not good enough to say that Tommy Byrne isn't (in your opinion) is good as some ideal candidate who has expressed no interest whatsoever in the role. You have to explain what will happen next, and why Offaly will be better off afterwards.
LS I agree with you to an extent. It's not the right way to simply remove somebody with nothing ready to succeed them. From my own perspective, I think he needs to honourable step aside and hold up his hand that he has failed despite his best efforts. I find it totally unacceptable that he simply refuses to take any responsibility for the problems in Offaly GAA which unfortunately has become totally dysfunctional.

The bottom line is Liam Hogan was asked to come on board and independently assess the whole thing. He made it pretty clear that communication was deplorable from the board and especially from the man in question. Now we all know, that good communication is absolutely essential especially from somebody in a chairman's position. Its not the first time we have heard criticism like this directed towards our current chairman.

Your example of the two previous potential candidates, highlights something, its simply not good enough to want a job or think you can do that job. We need somebody qualified, respected and above all, somebody who has a level head to understand that everything has to be in the best interest of our county.

We have the issue though and I have heard it through talking to committee members from various clubs, that there is a reluctance to go forward and challenge for these positions because the perception is that the votes are pretty much secured certain people look after each other. I don't know if that is accurate or not, but if it's the bloody perception and it is stopping people going forward then there is a big problem that needs to be addressed. Maybe if somebody steps down, it may be the shove to get real efforts in place to put somebody forward. Surely there is at least one person in most clubs that those clubs would propose.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by greenairfield » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:12 am

If we get a candidate like John Irwin or someone of the same calibre he should step aside.

Why does he keep saying to contest him surely if someone like that is willing to go forward lone shark Tommy would step aside ???

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Lone Shark » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:37 am

greenairfield wrote:If we get a candidate like John Irwin or someone of the same calibre he should step aside.

Why does he keep saying to contest him surely if someone like that is willing to go forward lone shark Tommy would step aside ???
I cannot speak for Tommy, but I honestly believe that if someone like that came forward, he would. I may be wrong of course, but in all my dealings with Tommy, I've never got the sense that he is desperately keen to be in this role, quite the opposite in fact, and I strongly suspect that if there were other alternatives last time, he would have stepped away. However I am utterly terrified of what would happen if Tommy simply resigned and left a vacuum. There are a handful of people currently on the management committee that I would be happy to see step up, but there are several more that would be in over their head at that level - and we have no way of knowing which we'd get.

One way or another, it's not fair to have this discussion in the absence of an alternative candidate.


On the wider points raised by Timber, it's utterly fair to say that there have been substantial failings, with the collapse of the Liam Hogan-led committee up near the top of the list. It is only right that people involved should be held to account for that, and I don't believe that the clubs of Offaly have done that to any sufficient degree. Yet it's not fair to highlight the negatives, and not to balance that with the fact that in terms of football, we still compete reasonably well, given the fact that this county remains in the bottom ten counties in Ireland in terms of population, while most of those ten do little more than pay lip service to hurling.

We can't ignore what has happened in the Faithful Fields, we can't ignore the fact that we have an excellent county ground, and that we have a quite vibrant club scene that allows players to compete in both sports. There are good things too, and while there are problems, this is why I abhor the logic of "burn them all that stake and whatever comes along next will surely be better".

I also agree that the perception cited by Timber is there. The problem is that not unlike many other things in life, the perception is not matched by reality. There are numerous examples of people putting themselves forward and finding themselves in positions of responsibility, so that's just a situation where people need to ignore the whispers and the gossip and look at the facts.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by SearingDrive » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:52 pm

Excellent arguments made by Lone Shark. Asking for Tommy Byrne's head, without having a suitable candidate, or candidates ready to take over makes no sense. Greenairfield recently posted that a chairperson from South Offaly, would be the answer, but is there one ready to take up the challenge?

I support the development of O'Connor Park, theFaithful Fields developments as necessary infrastructural developments, for the benefit of both supporters and players. Anyone who remembers the old O'Connor Park will be glad of the improved ground.

Saturday was a big disappointment, but it had been coming for a while. I know management and players are down, after giving their best. The County Board will have to appoint a team manager, and then as a board agree the best method of improving Offaly' hurling. We should remember that the executive are all volunteers, with outside careers and families, working for the Offaly GAA.
Next year Offaly hurlers will be aiming to secure promotion to the Joe McDonagh Cup, and get back to Division 1B of the league.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Fairplayalways » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:48 pm

just listening to Joachims comments on Saturday, he certainly (I doubt if it was intended) has made me personally wonder if the OCP debate needs to be looked at, co-incidence or not, hurling has fell apart since big games (and not so big) were moved to Tullamore, the South of the county just don't travel to Tullamore, no point saying real hurling fans will, yes some will, but I know some "real" hurling fans and they just wont loose the time and hassle of getting through Tullamore (and out of it on match day) we have debated and thrashed this before so no need to go into reasons, maybe Birr was a sort of "gelling" agent for hurling clubs...and wouldn't it be worth putting this debate to the test, move all big games back to Birr for next 5 years, see if things improve if not, yes, it is all myth, but if we don't try we will never know...what do you then with OCP..I don't know,,go back and have all football games in it I suppose...also, I have been a critic of Offaly SHC been on standby while county team prepares, heaven knows we only have a handful of clubs, and if we were as big as Cork or Tipp and took this approach we would never get our SHC finished. We should drive on, if lads get injured they get injured, that's what big panels are for, also some young fellah might spring out of nowhere form wise...we shut up shop, play a few league games, lads come back to the county then with no real fire in their bellies, its all a big sit around waiting scenario, then the county team gets beat, we play another round or two and break again...sure its farcical, always was..go tinker with the make up of our SHC a bit, give teams a few more games in League style championship, and get the hell on with it...there is too much hanging around and apathy sets in....no form is being carried into matches with the current set up as far as I can see....

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Killeighman » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:12 pm

How is there trouble getting in and out of Tullamore? The whole town is bypassed so you have numerous roads to travel on and the crowds that go to Tullamore you wouldn’t get stuck in traffic anyway. This whole Birr/Tullamore venue debate is total nonsense. Joachim said there was no hurling outside a 10 mile radius of Birr and how disrespectful that is? The only bit of grassroots in the county is being done outside of Birr. Ballinamere and Clodiagh Gaels are reaping the rewards of that and you only have to look at the Offaly U20 hurling panel to see that. 1 man from Clara on that panel and Joachim said there no hurling in Clara. Clara have another talented player in Josh Fleming but will never be seen because he’s from Clara. People need to realise there is a shift in the hurling areas and the south are not producing the talent they once were. This county is divided and until that divide is gone we’ll never do anything at a high level ever again.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by greenairfield » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:39 pm

A shift me hole one U20 team that has more North Offaly fellas isnt a shift.

Look at the senior championship 7 of the clubs are from the south and next year there will probably be 8 again.


Yes we need hurlers from all over the county but realistically you need south Offaly clubs doing well to stand a chance.

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by Fairplayalways » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:45 pm

I agree greenairfield....great to have the players from North of the county, but you need your traditional base, just look at how we are doing without the traditional base teams involvement...getting in and out of Tullamore town is not the issue, its having to park in the housing estates off the main road, clogging them up on the local residents, queing for almost half an hour then to get back out on the main road, and then crawl the whole way to the outskirts of the town...no thanks...

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Re: Joe McDonagh cup

Post by bracknaghboy » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:07 pm

Fairplayalways wrote:getting in and out of Tullamore town is not the issue, its having to park in the housing estates off the main road, clogging them up on the local residents, queing for almost half an hour then to get back out on the main road, and then crawl the whole way to the outskirts of the town...no thanks...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is priceless stuff.
I assume you've never been to an away match in your life so?

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