NHL Division 1B 2019

[bracknaghboy]

Really, what tripe!!! It's Galways fault!!! Offaly getting hammered week in week out ,is because Galway were put into Leinster? Not because of A useless county board?, lack of investment underage development within the county?. No, root cause is Galway. Your post sums up everything wrong within Offaly. Making fun of A competition Offaly will find hard to win, what the GAA wants, which is in every sport, is teams who can compete against each other , playing each other. No point in having a relegation play-off between a Munster team and a bottom Leinster team. It would be a hammering.

I. I never said Offaly being hammered is Galways fault. It's Galways fault that Offaly are forbidden from entering their provincial championship this year. The so called weaker counties have pushed out to make way for Galway. Thats just the truth.

2. I never said that bottom in Munster should play bottom in Leinster. If you knew your stuff you'd know that if Kerry with the McDonald then they have to play the bottom Munster team to gain promotion. Why isn't it the same in Leinster? What didn't Carlow have to play off against Offaly last year.

3. I'll happily make fun of this useless made up competition named after a hurling nobody in the grand scheme of this. The Brian Whelahan Cup, The DJ Carey Cup, The John Doyle Cup, The Eddie Keher Cup, The Nicky English........no it's The Joe McDonagh. It's absurd that this is now the 2nd competition. Nope, I'm not having it. It's Ronald McDonald for me!

[LooseCannon]

Ciarán Cleary
Jordan Quinn
Dan Doughan
Brendan Murphy
Ronan Hughes
Conor Slevin
Peter Geraghty
Thomas Geraghty
Seán Gardiner (inj?)
David King
Dan Currams
Seán Ryan (retired)
Dermot Shortt??
David O’Toole-Greene??

I could be missing a couple. Feel free to add to the list.
Dooley, Bergin, Mahon and Egan are returning.

[Killeighman]

Ciarán Cleary
Jordan Quinn
Dan Doughan
Brendan Murphy
Ronan Hughes
Conor Slevin
Peter Geraghty
Thomas Geraghty
Seán Gardiner (inj?)
David King
Dan Currams
Seán Ryan (retired)
Dermot Shortt??
David O’Toole-Greene??

I could be missing a couple. Feel free to add to the list.
Dooley, Bergin, Mahon and Egan are returning.

Shortt is not involved this year and David O’Toole-Greene was in earlier in the year but he’s been struggling with injury so that may explain his absence from squads lately. Just to add to your list above Paddy Delaney and Conor Molloy are not in the squad this year. Both who could offer a bit. I was impressed with Conor Molloy when Coolderry won the championship and played in Leinster. I don’t know about Sean Gardiner if he is involved. Massive loss if not involved because thats the two first choice full backs in the county not involved then. I think Ben Connelly has more to offer at centre or wing back but unfortunately he is the likely choice for full back when he’s back from injury.

[LooseCannon]

Offaly team to play Dublin
1. Eoghan Cahill
2. Tom Spain
3. Niall Houlihan
4. Paddy Rigney
5. Aidan Treacy
6. Pat Camon (C)
7. Enda Grogan
8. Craig Taylor
9. Kevin Dunne
10. Damien Egan
11. Sean Dolan
12. Colin Egan
13. Kevin Connolly
14. Oisin Kelly
15. Colm Gath

[Lone Shark]

Really, what tripe!!! It's Galways fault!!! Offaly getting hammered week in week out ,is because Galway were put into Leinster? Not because of A useless county board?, lack of investment underage development within the county?. No, root cause is Galway. Your post sums up everything wrong within Offaly. Making fun of A competition Offaly will find hard to win, what the GAA wants, which is in every sport, is teams who can compete against each other , playing each other. No point in having a relegation play-off between a Munster team and a bottom Leinster team. It would be a hammering.

I just want to pick up on the line bolded above. You are correct that it would probably be a hammering, but that doesn't mean there is no point having it - the reason is something called sporting integrity. In 2019, it's fair to say that Carlow (or Laois, or Offaly, or Westmeath) are at least ten points behind the worst Munster team. However that doesn't mean that this will be the case forever. This is a huge bugbear I have with the organisation of GAA games, and in hurling in particular - we have this tendency to gerrymander our competitions to suit the number of teams that we think are at a certain level, rather than picking the right structure to give a good games programme, and then letting teams find their level within that. Then, we keep having to chop and change things, as teams get better/worse over time.

Nine years ago, Offaly beat Limerick in the championship. In the few years after that, Offaly gave Waterford and Cork plenty to think about, but fell narrowly short. It's entirely possible that one of the Munster powers will hit on hard times at some stage in the future, and if they do, they have been artificially protected by a system that makes it all but impossible for them to get relegated. Things can change, and it's not right to put in a system that presupposes that there's no point in playing a certain game, because the result is fairly predictable. By that logic, why play the Leinster football championship at all? God knows, you could even ask why play the All-Ireland football championship - we all know who will win.

Equally, is it fair that if one of the teams in Leinster has a bad year and gets ambushed by LS/CW/OY in the midst of a dire run of results, they will go down, but a Munster county could lose every game by 10 points and be unaffected?

If the fifth best team in Munster is ten points better than the fifth best team in Leinster, let them prove it. Play the game, and see what happens. So then, if things do start to even up for any reason, we will have a fair system.

And no, the Joe McDonagh winners shouldn't have to play off against the bottom team to go up - if you win the second tier you should move up, no second chances designed to protect the team that had a higher standard of games all year.

[SearingDrive]

Couldn't have said it better myself LoneShark. By the way Offaly beat Limerick in 2008, in the Gaelic Grounds on a Saturday night. They played Waterford in Thurles later, putting in a huge performance, Eoin Kelly was the difference between the sides. The Cork game was in PUC, in 2011.

It is unfair that no relegation applies in the Munster championship, seems the GAA want to preserve the status of that province, while Leinster's bottom team are relegated.

It appears that promoting hurling in the counties of Offaly and Laois, Carlow and Westmeath, to a higher standard is not a priority.

[llkj]

So, is it fair to say that you generally agree with the structure of the championship overall Lone Shark, with a couple
Of slight modifications? The changes being: relegation playoff between bottom in Munster and Leinster with the loser dropping and being replaced directly with Joe McDonagh winner? Seems fair enough. Right now the result would likely be the same as what we saw last year, but at least it’s equal.

[LooseCannon]

https://soundcloud.com/user-550792397/k ... lin-defeat

[Lone Shark]

So, is it fair to say that you generally agree with the structure of the championship overall Lone Shark, with a couple
Of slight modifications? The changes being: relegation playoff between bottom in Munster and Leinster with the loser dropping and being replaced directly with Joe McDonagh winner? Seems fair enough. Right now the result would likely be the same as what we saw last year, but at least it’s equal.

I don't like the round robin system to be honest, but if we decide that we're going with it, then at least if you put in place that final, it's fair - there is no inherent bias attached to being in one province as opposed to the other. In general I believe our intercounty championships are too long drawn out, with too many games - but fighting against that is fighting the tide these days.

[jimbob17]

Poor enough outcome today in relation to points diff etc. We are a good bit off where we need to be in fairness and some of the lads wouldn't make inter county senior panel in most hurling counties. That isn't to be disrespectful but the threshold to be an inter county senior in Offaly has dropped considerably.

Looks like it could be a shoot out between ourselves and Laois for the drop given Carlow's impressive displays against Dublin and Galway. I wouldnt be too confident of beating Carlow at moment but that could change with the return of a few key players - Dooley Bergin Mahon etc.

Just wondering how relegation works if teams finish level on points which is a possibility. As far as I am aware you can't be relegated on points diff, maybe I am wrong? In this case does it go on a head to head?

[LooseCannon]

Poor enough outcome today in relation to points diff etc. We are a good bit off where we need to be in fairness and some of the lads wouldn't make inter county senior panel in most hurling counties. That isn't to be disrespectful but the threshold to be an inter county senior in Offaly has dropped considerably.

Looks like it could be a shoot out between ourselves and Laois for the drop given Carlow's impressive displays against Dublin and Galway. I wouldnt be too confident of beating Carlow at moment but that could change with the return of a few key players - Dooley Bergin Mahon etc.

Just wondering how relegation works if teams finish level on points which is a possibility. As far as I am aware you can't be relegated on points diff, maybe I am wrong? In this case does it go on a head to head?

Head to head if two teams are involved.
If three or more, score difference is used.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Bottom two play off in a relegation Final, j17.

Just wondering how relegation works if teams finish level on points which is a possibility. As far as I am aware you can't be relegated on points diff, maybe I am wrong? In this case does it go on a head to head?

[LooseCannon]

Bottom two play off in a relegation Final, j17.

Just wondering how relegation works if teams finish level on points which is a possibility. As far as I am aware you can't be relegated on points diff, maybe I am wrong? In this case does it go on a head to head?

Apologies, I thought that this was the football thread. Shocking on my behalf.

[Plain of the Herbs]

On this point: none of the Division 1B trio of Galway, Waterford and Dublin meet each other until round 3 at the earliest. Same as last year. Galway, Waterford and Dublin were all at home in round 1. In 2018, Galway, Limerick and Dublin were at home to Antrim, Laois and Offaly respectively for their opening round.

Now, I appreciate it's up to Offaly, Laois, Carlow and Westmeath to get their own hurling house in order, but there's a foul odour from headquarters too.

It appears that promoting hurling in the counties of Offaly and Laois, Carlow and Westmeath, to a higher standard is not a priority.

[allstar2010]

That was some result for Carlow, fair play to them. They are justifying their right to play in the Leinster championship. We, however have no right to be playing in the Leinster championship in its current format. Don’t understand why some posters here think we should be! We got hammered in all 4 games last year and were not even competitive. Hammered by Galway and Waterford the year before. How is that any good to anyone?? We’ve a chance to actually win a competition this year and build from there, at the moment it’s hard to see us winning that. The league game in O’Moore Park on 16th Feb is a massive game, a win is badly needed so we can go down to Carlow with a bit of confidence and something to play for. The last thing we need is to be getting relegated in the league.

All clubs around the county need to get their act together and encourage players to play for their county if good enough. Hearing the stories regarding no Shinrone player making themselves available is sickening and I really hope they fail like every other year to even look like title contenders.