Senior A Football 2019

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.

Champions?

Rhode
8
38%
Tullamore
3
14%
Clara
0
No votes
Ferbane
5
24%
Edenderry
4
19%
Gracefield
0
No votes
Cappincur
0
No votes
Shamrocks
1
5%
 
Total votes: 21

private joker
All Star
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:09 pm

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by private joker » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:47 pm

The criss cross format allows for 4 games rather than three. Group 1 teams play group 2 teams.

Keyser Soze
Intermediate
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:29 pm
Club: S Club 7

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by Keyser Soze » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:52 pm

That seems a little bit pointless?
Is the extra game the only benefit?

User avatar
Lone Shark
All Star
Posts: 5200
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:21 pm
Club: Ferbane
Location: Back Home!
Contact:

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by Lone Shark » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:05 pm

Keyser Soze wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:52 pm
That seems a little bit pointless?
Is the extra game the only benefit?
Pretty much, I'd say. Though I'm sure if you asked the clubs, and the county board finance committee, they'd say that's a significant benefit.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

italia90
Junior B
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by italia90 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:30 pm

Lone shark i think the problem is that you can be knocked out by a team you havent played. If tullamore played shamrocks and were beaten then fair enough. I was at Shamrocks game and the biggest roar of the day was when word came through that Clara scored a goal. Suppose Tullamore won that game and Shamrocks would have been eliminated based on the fact they played Gracefield away on first day, where they were always going to be at their most competitive and in turn lose out on score difference. I understand some of your points and i know its difficult to please everybody. On a side note I dont like quarter finals in an 8 team championship.

User avatar
bracknaghboy
All Star
Posts: 780
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by bracknaghboy » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:29 pm

My issue with the format is mainly the following scenario which is theoretically possible: Team A in Group 1 plays 4, loses 4 and ends on 0 points but goes straight into the semi-final. Team F in Group 2 plays 4, wins 4 and ends on 8 points but goes into a relegation match. A team that has 0% wins should not be progressing further than a team winning 100%.
However, the clubs voted for it this year so I've no real problem with the various outcomes across the 3 football championships. Ranking them 1-8 after the 4 rounds with the top 4 or 6 progressing is fairer. I really hope we never go back to groups of 8. Seven rounds of boring games is a real killer for all involved. I respect other have differing opinions on this.

SearingDrive
All Star
Posts: 706
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by SearingDrive » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:00 pm

I am not in favour of q/ finals in a group of 8 teams either. I do however, like the new format, games home, away, in OCP, and a neutral venue.

The SFC needed a change. It is an anomaly that Cappincur make the knock out stages with no points, while Tullamore on 4 points are in a relegation match.
I think next year, the top two teams in each group qualify for the semi finals, it should allow for a shorter championship time frame.

Rhode looked very poor v Ferbane on Saturday, in a dreadful game of football. No one wanted to attack with the wind. Ferbane were 2 points down at half time, which suited them, and playing with the breeze on the change of ends.

User avatar
Geansai Gorm
Intermediate
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:34 am
Club: Ballycommon

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by Geansai Gorm » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:00 pm

bracknaghboy wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:29 pm
However, the clubs voted for it this year...
St. Brigids & Ballycommon I know voted against it, so it wasn't unanimous. Not sure if any others did.

LooseCannon
All Star
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:31 am
Club: Coppers

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by LooseCannon » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:11 pm

Geansai Gorm wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:00 pm
bracknaghboy wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:29 pm
However, the clubs voted for it this year...
St. Brigids & Ballycommon I know voted against it, so it wasn't unanimous. Not sure if any others did.
Rather ironically, the teams that the new format has benefited and cost from getting knockout places respectively.
"The greatest one in a row in history."

User avatar
bracknaghboy
All Star
Posts: 780
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by bracknaghboy » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:18 pm

Geansai Gorm wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:00 pm
bracknaghboy wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:29 pm
However, the clubs voted for it this year...
St. Brigids & Ballycommon I know voted against it, so it wasn't unanimous. Not sure if any others did.
Thats a shame for Ballycommon so. Ye are good enough to win the relegation match but thats little consolation.
This seeding in the groups annoys me a bit as well. What do others think? This year each group had one of last years finalists, a beaten semi finalist, a beaten quarter finalist. I'm not a fan of this really. I like the luck of the draw, put them all in a hat and pull the first 4 out for group 1 and put the remaining 4 into group 2. I like the idea of a clean slate at the start of every year and see no reason why last year should influence this years selections. It's not like rugby or soccer where there are ranking points picked up over years which drive the seedings for world cup draws etc.

User avatar
Lone Shark
All Star
Posts: 5200
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:21 pm
Club: Ferbane
Location: Back Home!
Contact:

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by Lone Shark » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:56 pm

italia90 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:30 pm
Lone shark i think the problem is that you can be knocked out by a team you havent played. If tullamore played shamrocks and were beaten then fair enough. I was at Shamrocks game and the biggest roar of the day was when word came through that Clara scored a goal. Suppose Tullamore won that game and Shamrocks would have been eliminated based on the fact they played Gracefield away on first day, where they were always going to be at their most competitive and in turn lose out on score difference. I understand some of your points and i know its difficult to please everybody. On a side note I dont like quarter finals in an 8 team championship.
As I said, I'd have felt very uneasy had it been Shamrocks that got eliminated after winning three games. Tullamore had already lost a game and they knew that if they beat Clara they were in (Ferbane were in the same situation) and Tullamore weren't able to deliver. On that basis, I don't think their elimination is a miscarriage of justice.

If the aim of the game is to get the six (or four) best teams into the knockouts, then this system doesn't work, but some element of luck of the draw is nice to have too.

I'd agree that four qualifiers out of eight should be enough. Bottom teams in each group into a relegation final and third place done for the year would incentivise finishing as high up the table as possible, and to me that would be the way to go all right.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

kaiserchief
All Star
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:09 pm
Club: town

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by kaiserchief » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:44 pm

Lone Shark wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:56 pm
I'd agree that four qualifiers out of eight should be enough. Bottom teams in each group into a relegation final and third place done for the year would incentivise finishing as high up the table as possible, and to me that would be the way to go all right.
That would still will be an issue for this years championship. Just say Shamrocks Ferbane and Tullamore all finished on 6 points. Then it would be score difference to determine the 2nd place team. One team could argue advantage of a home fixture versus an away or neutral venue against the same team (say Gracefield). Then it is not comparative.

The system is not set up for success. Think it needs to go back to play your own group. I know it 3 games versus 4 but this year the fourth game in most groups were void. At least this way its head to head first and then score difference when deciding group positioning. Keep the QF's and play opposite group team in SF.

System was tried, didn't work, park it and move forward.

A better system to improve standard of Offaly football for me would be go with Westmeaths system to incorporate Senior A and B. Top 2 from Senior B get a quarter final against top 2 of senior A (and will play in senior a the next year, two botton teams to senior b the next year but can still have a shot at winning Senior A championship). second plays 3rd in the other quarter finals. Give 16 team the chance of winning the Senior A championship.

SearingDrive
All Star
Posts: 706
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by SearingDrive » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:15 pm

Lone Shark wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:56 pm
italia90 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:30 pm
Lone shark i think the problem is that you can be knocked out by a team you havent played. If tullamore played shamrocks and were beaten then fair enough. I was at Shamrocks game and the biggest roar of the day was when word came through that Clara scored a goal. Suppose Tullamore won that game and Shamrocks would have been eliminated based on the fact they played Gracefield away on first day, where they were always going to be at their most competitive and in turn lose out on score difference. I understand some of your points and i know its difficult to please everybody. On a side note I dont like quarter finals in an 8 team championship.
As I said, I'd have felt very uneasy had it been Shamrocks that got eliminated after winning three games. Tullamore had already lost a game and they knew that if they beat Clara they were in (Ferbane were in the same situation) and Tullamore weren't able to deliver. On that basis, I don't think their elimination is a miscarriage of justice.

If the aim of the game is to get the six (or four) best teams into the knockouts, then this system doesn't work, but some element of luck of the draw is nice to have too.

I'd agree that four qualifiers out of eight should be enough. Bottom teams in each group into a relegation final and third place done for the year would incentivise finishing as high up the table as possible, and to me that would be the way to go all right.
I would agree with that idea. The initiative in this year's championships is a good idea. With a few adjustments for 2020, 4 semi finalists, it could be a success.

User avatar
Lone Shark
All Star
Posts: 5200
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:21 pm
Club: Ferbane
Location: Back Home!
Contact:

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by Lone Shark » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:29 pm

kaiserchief wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:44 pm
Lone Shark wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:56 pm
I'd agree that four qualifiers out of eight should be enough. Bottom teams in each group into a relegation final and third place done for the year would incentivise finishing as high up the table as possible, and to me that would be the way to go all right.
That would still will be an issue for this years championship. Just say Shamrocks Ferbane and Tullamore all finished on 6 points. Then it would be score difference to determine the 2nd place team. One team could argue advantage of a home fixture versus an away or neutral venue against the same team (say Gracefield). Then it is not comparative.

The system is not set up for success. Think it needs to go back to play your own group. I know it 3 games versus 4 but this year the fourth game in most groups were void. At least this way its head to head first and then score difference when deciding group positioning. Keep the QF's and play opposite group team in SF.

System was tried, didn't work, park it and move forward.

A better system to improve standard of Offaly football for me would be go with Westmeaths system to incorporate Senior A and B. Top 2 from Senior B get a quarter final against top 2 of senior A (and will play in senior a the next year, two botton teams to senior b the next year but can still have a shot at winning Senior A championship). second plays 3rd in the other quarter finals. Give 16 team the chance of winning the Senior A championship.
There's no clear right or wrong answer on this, there are obviously advantages on all sides. Just to pick up on a few points though:

(1) Undoubtedly for any team to be eliminated after winning all bar one of their games would be very harsh, in any set up. Championship games need to matter, but getting to a situation where losing one game is fatal is not ideal either. That's why I think we need to learn the lessons of this year, but at the same time I don't consider this knockout lineup to be any big injustice.

(2) I like the "strong group"/"weak group" system, but it would probably require 12 teams to work properly - otherwise what you're doing is setting it up so all four teams in the "strong group" get into knockouts, and that will lead to some amount of shadow boxing in that group. And if we go back to 12 teams, you're going back to a system where you have a lot of teams that are well off the pace of the big boys. Even as it is, there's a big jump from 6th to 7th right now.

(3) The other thing with that is that unless the hurling goes back to a similar system, you'll have to go back to a couple of games played in late March/early April - and most clubs don't want to go back to that. Even if the hurlers do the same, you still have no leeway for a weekend where games get rained off, where there's a postponement due to a bereavement, or anything like that.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

kaiserchief
All Star
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:09 pm
Club: town

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by kaiserchief » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:19 am

Lone Shark wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:29 pm

(3) The other thing with that is that unless the hurling goes back to a similar system, you'll have to go back to a couple of games played in late March/early April - and most clubs don't want to go back to that. Even if the hurlers do the same, you still have no leeway for a weekend where games get rained off, where there's a postponement due to a bereavement, or anything like that.
I agree. Both system needs to align. 7 championship games in the hurling for dual clubs is ridiculous. It's ok for the likes of Shinrone whom don't have a football team but is killing clubs like Belmont, Shamrocks, Tullamore whom are "trying" to compete at Senior level in both.

kaiserchief
All Star
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:09 pm
Club: town

Re: Senior A Football 2019

Post by kaiserchief » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:27 pm

Any odds for the matches this weekend yet?

Ferbane and Clara are surely strong favorites.

Can see Shamrocks putting up a fight to Ferbane but Ferbane might just have too much for them.

Cappincur will hardly produce and upset.

Post Reply