Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.

Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby llkj » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:52 pm

kingscounty wrote: Galway walk in and will never be relegated from Leinster and it was just accepted from the teams in Leinster, I’m not blaming Galway but would they be welcome in Munster like this and would any of the teams be ok with relegation from the so called holy grail of a championship, me thinks not!!


Galway would be relegated if they lost all of the matches and finished bottom of their group too. It was not a special rule for Offaly.
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby biffinbanner » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:24 pm

i was all against the relegation thing at the start of the year but the painful fact is that what ever team finish last in munster would comfortably finish 3rd in leinster next year..what would wexford or dublin do in munster? they might not win a match in my opinion...lets win mcdonagh next year if were good enough and get into all ire q final..and beat one of the big boys in the league..
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby Bord na Mona man » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:06 am

We should get on with it and start planning for the Joe McDonagh. We've pleaded in the past looking for concessions and not pulled up our socks.
I remember after losing a league relegation play off to Limerick in 2007 we managed to get an accommodation to stay in the top fight.

The sympathy argument was already lost with the heavy defeat to Wexford. There are a clear 4 teams in Leinster at the top table and after that its a matter of where the cut off line gets drawn.

On the game itself, massively disappointing. Offaly were less sharp than 2 months ago. The fixture pile up might be a factor, but the execution was well off.
The selection was strange. By all means Shane Dooley shouldn't be undroppable, but if you are cutting him, make sure that the 6 selected forwards are better than him. That definitely wasn't the case.
I assumed Sean Ryan was named in the corner but was going to operate outfield. So I was surprised to see him stationed in the corner for the game. On a tight pitch like Parnell Park, where deliveries are invariably high balls, this wasn't the place for Ryan to thrive.

Far from wanting to join in chorus with the dinosaurs of Offaly who detest passing, but Offaly's short game was well off and should have been abandoned early on. Too many of the moves were simple straight lines up the field where stick passes were drilled at the ankles of the next man 20 metres further up the field, who was facing his own goal. Dublin read most of these easily and invariably forced a turnover after 2 or 3 of these passes.

By the same token, the high ball bombardment on Conor Mahon yielded next to nothing in terms of scores, as much as Mahon tried. Again, Offaly should have copped this and start taking shots from midfield. Do that for a while and you'll spot the opportune time to drop one in on the square when Dublin aren't guarding there.

And Dublin deserve credit. They are short on blue chip scorers, but still ran up a decent total. Many of their scores were simple and well worked. The support play was very good and a lot of scores came from an untracked player joining the attack. Compared to Offaly's predictable attacking lines to the next man up the field.

I think progress has been made this year, but Offaly are back to 80% of where they were for the league quarter final.
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby Killeighman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:57 am

https://soundcloud.com/sportsjoe-gaa-ho ... e-meltdown
Interesting points from Cheddar on this podcast. 1hr 18mins onwards he says a few words about Offaly and our current situation.
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby private joker » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:44 pm

I listened to what he had to say. Don't agree at all with what he said. Offaly , as a county have watched on as others got their act together. In no way do Offaly deserve to be in the liam mccarthy. The work has not been done. Cheddar spoke of a plan that's needed. That's for Offaly people to put together. Not Leinster council. It can be done. Longford have a progressive plan, surely the same can be done in Offaly. Coaching and games needs to be to the forefront here. They need to be listened to, and whatever plan they come up with, be implemented and backed to the hilt.
Finally, serious questions needs to be asked of the senior hurling panel. Celebrated beating Dublin in the league like they had won an Ireland. Touch no where near the standard, S/C? Non existent.
Why did Shane Dooley not start vs Dublin? Him been dropped was by all accounts not caused by injury. Discipline within the group not at the standard required. Matches are won on the field, but lost off it.
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby greenairfield » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:13 am

Players are entitled to socialise after a game...They put in all the hard work since December....!

It's just an easy blame game for Martin to use.
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby private joker » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:40 pm

Indeed they are, God forbid they wait a month.
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby Toxicity234 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:00 pm

there a lot of talk about professional approach.

Professional players enjoy a few drink after a match. (win or lose) the idea that Amateur players are banned makes no sense.
Pep often goes for Dinner and a glass of wine with his players.
Schmidt let his players have a few drink after a game.
But its a few drink not fall around pissed.

The other thing about Players before the Wexford game been told to bring back the jersey or have 37.50 taking from there expenses.
The county board can fuck off with that one.

The Game itself is one we like to forget. We were tired. we didn't win our own puck out. we didn't consent Dublin and that said if we had taking out chances. we could have been ahead at half time.
The Goal before half time killed us.

Looking forward to next year and whatever were in. We need to sort out a full back. Gardiner a lovely hurler and a leader he natural and a Wing back. also we need his leadership in the half back line.
Also we need to stop playing forward in defence. (yeah, Can't believe I have to write this again).
Kiely need to given a Position and left there. Like was done with Camon this year. Time for him to develop.
We need to find a Work horse to help/replace Mahon but we need him to stay as well.
We need to find a Free taker to Help/replace Dooley but again we need him to stay.

We are where we are. thing are out of our control so lets make sure that we set the standard for ourselves.
“Common sense is not so common.”
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Reflections on Relegation

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:29 pm

And so, it came to pass, and Offaly slipped out of Leinster hurling. The end of an era, the first time since 1921 that Offaly won’t contest the Leister Senior championship, the time befoe that was 1895, before the County Board’s foundation.

There has been much debate since Sunday. Now, there are some (I’m thinking Klare, Galway, Tipperary) who are guided by spite. And they have to live with the weight of that. I am surprised by several reasonable people who think relegation will be good for Offaly – more about that anon. And there are others who produce statistics merely to prove an argument, despite the sandy foundations to those same statistics.

Truth to tell, I could accept Offaly’s relegation had it happened twelve months ago. But much has changed in the interim. Kevin Martin stopped the rot, got Offaly competitive again, got hurlers who has opted out to put their lives on hold and to commit to Offaly’s cause.

Taking last Sunday individually, Offaly were over-ran for the first 20 minutes but steadied up after that and played some decent hurling. The penalty decision was incorrect, everybody knows that, thought there is no guarantee it would have been converted. Still, there was a single score between the sides at that point – leave aside the final margin for a minute -so it was a critical decision, though not unexpected. The Dublin goal was, naturally, a hammer blow from which a tired team relying on heart was not going to recover.

The improvements this year might not have borne out shock results against superior teams, but that’s not how the year should be measured. Rather, measure the Kilkenny performance against the same opposition in 2014. Measure the Galway performance against the same opposition a year ago. Measure the NHL quarter-final against Kilkenny with the 2016 quarter-final against the same opposition. Measure the NHL performance against Leix against that of the previous year.

The regret must be that Kevin Martin didn’t come in three years sooner, for so much ground was lost in the interim. He brought organisation and the players responded.

Relegation is a disaster for Offaly on so many fronts. Mainly, the next step is to speed up the pace at which Offaly play their hurling. The ball needs to stick, and they need to hurl faster on instinct. Whether Damian Fox is the man to coach this, or there is a better alternative, is something that should be looked at. Anyway, that quickening is not going to happen at a lower level – of all the hypotheses that have been thrown about in the last week, that one is a fact.

So many have claimed that Offaly won’t commit if they keep getting beaten at the high level. They’ve got it backways. Hurlers are competitive sports people who strive to be the best that they can be. That cannot happen hurling at a lower level. And anyway, they committed this year, didn’t they. Johnny Dooley was quoted in a paper on Saturday, doubting several of the squad will commit next year. Well, he’s got his ear to the ground, has a nephew on the Offaly team, has a son who is a Senior club hurler. That’s enough for me.

Matches in the lower division Joe McDonagh Cup (how did Joe McDonagh come to be more highly rated than Christy Ring?) will be given the graveyard slot, 3pm on a Saturday, when no one knows they are on. And no amount of ‘morketing’, tweeting, glossy posters or other promotion is going to change that. Remember the round robin match against Carlow with hardly anyone there? There will be no more crowds of 8,000 to see the All-Ireland champions visit Tullamore. No possibilities for promotion. And with the abolition of Leinster semi-finals, there are no opportunities to have a Galway v Kilkenny or Galway v Dublin game in Tullamore.

Those who think the lower division is a place for rehabilitating lost hurling souls need only look across the Kinnitty mountains towards Laois. They are the ones who had the model underage structure while Offaly’s floundered, they reached the odd Leinster U21 and minor final when Offaly couldn’t. Relegation has driven them to new depths.

There may well be spending cuts too – there will have to be if income is reduced – I imagine there will be less sponsorship income, both on a macro and micro level. Which leads to diminished standard of team preparation.

Some claim the new round robin structure has been the greatest thing to happen hurling, pointing to the Munster series currently in progress. But take a closer look - Munster, known for dunting and boring, and pulling timber, and spilling blood, has been reduced to resemble a playground. Hurlers in acres of space, hardly a tackle thrown in, hardly a shoulder driven into a chest. Don’t be fooled – because a match ends 1-32 to 2-29 or whatever, is not an indication of good quality hurling. One of the greatest matches of all time was 0-5 to 0-3 at half-time.

And why is Leinster cut of at five counties, merely because Munster is? There are more counties than that in Leinster. And that’s without taking in the cuckoos from across the Shannon. Antrim remain in line for promotion – that’ll be great crack if that happens.

Has anyone else noticed the Christy Ring Cup winners are not automatically promoted? Instead they must play-off with the team who finish second from the bottom of the Joe McDonagh Cup.

And there are those patting Offaly on the head, telling us Offaly will get five matches in the group next year, and won’t it be great. They are that ignorant of the various grades they do not know the Joe McDonagh Cup competition is to be reduced to five counties next year. And the carrot of advancing to an All-Ireland quarter-final is a poisoned one. Firstly, the two Joe McDonagh teams will not advance to an All-Ireland quarter-final, rather they advance to an eighth-final. Again, patting someone on the head, calling it a preliminary quarter-final. I work with figures, a half of a quarter is an eighth, not a preliminary quarter.

It is bullshit, and rather than going good for hurling, it is going to reduce even further the number of top counties. Bad, on so many levels.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Reflections on Relegation

Postby LooseCannon » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:02 pm

Plain of the Herbs wrote:And so, it came to pass, and Offaly slipped out of Leinster hurling. The end of an era, the first time since 1921 that Offaly won’t contest the Leister Senior championship, the time befoe that was 1895, before the County Board’s foundation.

There has been much debate since Sunday. Now, there are some (I’m thinking Klare, Galway, Tipperary) who are guided by spite. And they have to live with the weight of that. I am surprised by several reasonable people who think relegation will be good for Offaly – more about that anon. And there are others who produce statistics merely to prove an argument, despite the sandy foundations to those same statistics.

Truth to tell, I could accept Offaly’s relegation had it happened twelve months ago. But much has changed in the interim. Kevin Martin stopped the rot, got Offaly competitive again, got hurlers who has opted out to put their lives on hold and to commit to Offaly’s cause.

Taking last Sunday individually, Offaly were over-ran for the first 20 minutes but steadied up after that and played some decent hurling. The penalty decision was incorrect, everybody knows that, thought there is no guarantee it would have been converted. Still, there was a single score between the sides at that point – leave aside the final margin for a minute -so it was a critical decision, though not unexpected. The Dublin goal was, naturally, a hammer blow from which a tired team relying on heart was not going to recover.

The improvements this year might not have borne out shock results against superior teams, but that’s not how the year should be measured. Rather, measure the Kilkenny performance against the same opposition in 2014. Measure the Galway performance against the same opposition a year ago. Measure the NHL quarter-final against Kilkenny with the 2016 quarter-final against the same opposition. Measure the NHL performance against Leix against that of the previous year.

The regret must be that Kevin Martin didn’t come in three years sooner, for so much ground was lost in the interim. He brought organisation and the players responded.

Relegation is a disaster for Offaly on so many fronts. Mainly, the next step is to speed up the pace at which Offaly play their hurling. The ball needs to stick, and they need to hurl faster on instinct. Whether Damian Fox is the man to coach this, or there is a better alternative, is something that should be looked at. Anyway, that quickening is not going to happen at a lower level – of all the hypotheses that have been thrown about in the last week, that one is a fact.

So many have claimed that Offaly won’t commit if they keep getting beaten at the high level. They’ve got it backways. Hurlers are competitive sports people who strive to be the best that they can be. That cannot happen hurling at a lower level. And anyway, they committed this year, didn’t they. Johnny Dooley was quoted in a paper on Saturday, doubting several of the squad will commit next year. Well, he’s got his ear to the ground, has a nephew on the Offaly team, has a son who is a Senior club hurler. That’s enough for me.

Matches in the lower division Joe McDonagh Cup (how did Joe McDonagh come to be more highly rated than Christy Ring?) will be given the graveyard slot, 3pm on a Saturday, when no one knows they are on. And no amount of ‘morketing’, tweeting, glossy posters or other promotion is going to change that. Remember the round robin match against Carlow with hardly anyone there? There will be no more crowds of 8,000 to see the All-Ireland champions visit Tullamore. No possibilities for promotion. And with the abolition of Leinster semi-finals, there are no opportunities to have a Galway v Kilkenny or Galway v Dublin game in Tullamore.

Those who think the lower division is a place for rehabilitating lost hurling souls need only look across the Kinnitty mountains towards Laois. They are the ones who had the model underage structure while Offaly’s floundered, they reached the odd Leinster U21 and minor final when Offaly couldn’t. Relegation has driven them to new depths.

There may well be spending cuts too – there will have to be if income is reduced – I imagine there will be less sponsorship income, both on a macro and micro level. Which leads to diminished standard of team preparation.

Some claim the new round robin structure has been the greatest thing to happen hurling, pointing to the Munster series currently in progress. But take a closer look - Munster, known for dunting and boring, and pulling timber, and spilling blood, has been reduced to resemble a playground. Hurlers in acres of space, hardly a tackle thrown in, hardly a shoulder driven into a chest. Don’t be fooled – because a match ends 1-32 to 2-29 or whatever, is not an indication of good quality hurling. One of the greatest matches of all time was 0-5 to 0-3 at half-time.

And why is Leinster cut of at five counties, merely because Munster is? There are more counties than that in Leinster. And that’s without taking in the cuckoos from across the Shannon. Antrim remain in line for promotion – that’ll be great crack if that happens.

Has anyone else noticed the Christy Ring Cup winners are not automatically promoted? Instead they must play-off with the team who finish second from the bottom of the Joe McDonagh Cup.

And there are those patting Offaly on the head, telling us Offaly will get five matches in the group next year, and won’t it be great. They are that ignorant of the various grades they do not know the Joe McDonagh Cup competition is to be reduced to five counties next year. And the carrot of advancing to an All-Ireland quarter-final is a poisoned one. Firstly, the two Joe McDonagh teams will not advance to an All-Ireland quarter-final, rather they advance to an eighth-final. Again, patting someone on the head, calling it a preliminary quarter-final. I work with figures, a half of a quarter is an eighth, not a preliminary quarter.

It is bullshit, and rather than going good for hurling, it is going to reduce even further the number of top counties. Bad, on so many levels.


Hear, hear.
You’ve put into words what we all feel.
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby jimbob17 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:52 pm

Wouldnt agree with that POTH. We are not up to the level. We got good beating by all teams. We never threatened to win a game. The mcdonagh teams are our level. In fact i wouldnt be sure we would beat westmeath antrim or carlow. We will struggle to get back into Leinster. Who are we to look down on them teams. Theyll lick their lips next year to see us coming.

The current squad is direct product of inadequate underage system. We've done nothing in 20 years and are living in the past. A plan to improve things is not being implemented! Going down is a wake up call we so badly need. Its a pity it didn't happen years ago!

Lets see if the county board change their tune. We have been a laughing stock, most of it our own making. Tradition will get you so far but if you dont put in the work, tradition dies! We have let that happen, led by years of inadequacy at county board level. Nobody else is to blame but ourselves!

If the clubs are naive enough to continue to have inadequate people represent them at board level, the malaise will continue and no more than Laois, we could struggle to stay in the Joe McDonagh Cup!
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby allstar2010 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:23 am

On current form Offaly have no right to be competing with the top 4 in Leinster because they can’t compete with them. An average beaten of over 15pts per game tells that story. Comparing Kilkenny of 2014 with Kilkenny of 2018 is a bit of a joke! Playing teams of a higher standard has done nothing for us in the last 15years so why should we keep doing it? We’re now down to our own level competing against teams we might beat rather than playing teams that if we lose by under10 pts it’s deemed a success.

If we compare it to club teams, it’s like leaving say Lusmagh in the senior A championship because they are a great little club have won a championship back in the day and some think they deserve to be playing top teams even though they have no hope of beating them. What’s the point?

I hope the current management stay and keep everyone on board and they look on it as an opportunity to win a championship. They still have Galway, Waterford and Dublin in the league.
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby Bord na Mona man » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:39 am

If Offaly get a reprieve in Leinster, then fine. But we are on shaky ground. I’d say we’re giving the Joe McDonagh counties great motivational fodder while we're at it.

The argument that less players will commit if we’re a demoted. That same logic suggests there are quality players in Westmeath and Carlow who won’t commit due to the level they’re operating at.
Which then makes Offaly even worse for struggling against these sides who are implicitly shorn of talent, while we have closer to our full pick.

Also, maybe the commitment thing will shake out a few stragglers. For the past 20 championships, Offaly have picked up a double digit beatings in 15 of those campaigns (See below).
Just my own personal opinion, but the players who give up trying the earliest in these games are usually the players who are the quickest to spit the dummy and drop off panels.
This applies to football also. I think mentality in the county hasn't been great. With the Crunchie Board, rightly in many cases, being the first point of blame, some questionable attitudes from certain players has escaped examination.

Personally I'd rather build the foundations on the players who roll up their sleeves and drag us back out of the Joe McDonagh, than the ones who pick and choose when to commit.

Offaly's biggest defeat each championship since 1998.
Year - Margin- Opponent
1999 10 Kilkenny
2000 13 Kilkenny
2001 12 Kilkenny
2002 13 Tipperary
2003 5 Tipperary
2004 9 Clare
2005 31 Kilkenny
2006 10 Limerick
2007 19 Cork
2008 18 Kilkenny
2009 13 Cork
2010 6 Tipperary
2011 4 Dublin
2012 14 Galway
2013 4 Waterford
2014 26 Kilkenny
2015 20 Clare
2016 14 Westmeath
2017 24 Waterford
2018 24 Wexford
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby True Red » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:41 am

It is bullshit, and rather than going good for hurling, it is going to reduce even further the number of top counties. Bad, on so many levels.


Genuine question POTH - do you think Offaly are entitled to be labelled as a Top Hurling county?
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers Championship Thread

Postby timber » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Offaly hurlers deserve to be relegated. two atrocious displays against Wexford and in particular Dublin. I know 4 weeks in a row is very tough but there should not be that big a gap between the teams.

Offaly hurling needs to harden up for one thing. Both physically and mentally. Club games are too soft. And I don't mean fouling or silly dirty belts. From what I can see Offaly players find the pace and aggression in county games very hard to handle. Current Offaly players are far too slow on the ball and in decision making. That all comes from bad habits of playing in club games that lack real championship intensity and are played at a far slower pace.

I hope Kevin stays on and all the players stay on board. They can go sulk like some of our footballers do or they can go out and start shutting the likes of Loughnane up by putting in good performances. Starting with giving the Joe McDonagh cup a right good lash next year and working their way back.

Loughnane mentioned offaly and "self pity". He was talking through his arse because most of the people giving out about Offaly being relegated are from outside our County. If there is anything in our Offaly hurlers they will use that as motivation and keep the heads down, work very hard, and go out and prove to everybody that the Joe McDonagh cup is not "their level" and shove that up Loughnane and shut him up.
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