Leinster club championships 2017

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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby kaiserchief » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:48 am

Kiely wasn't travelling outside Ireland at that time. If I remember correctly he had started a new job and had to travel long distances and needed a break.

Any update on the leinster council hearing last night?
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby llkj » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:49 pm

Suspension upheld. Time to move on.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby kaiserchief » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:10 pm

I personally taught this would be the conclusion.

Don't think Stephen Leonard will start.

Brian Leonard if fit will start wing back and Enda Grogan or Jordan Quinn to midfield.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:21 pm

A few thoughts on Sunday, in no particular order.

Con O’Callaghan. Needs no introduction. Interesting to read the Wexford People report on Cuala’s semi-final win. Con O’Callaghan started both halves in the right corner-forward position, but took up a central position once the ball was thrown in. Cuala generally played with O’Callaghan and Nicky Kenny in a two man full-forward line with David Treacy drifting outfield. Of course, that will change if Mark Schutte returns from injury.

The concern is that Kilcormac looked uncomfortable when Mount Leinster Rangers did something similar during their semi-final’s first quarter. Ger Healion was left exposed and the full-forward was free to run into the vacant corner, gather possession and run at Healion.

With this in mind, Kilcormac wil need to keep their shape. You would imagine Ger Healion would pick up O’Callahan, Killian Leonard would oppose Kenny, with Enda Grogan filling the space. An alternative would be that Ger Healion would cover the edge of the square, with Enda Grogan tracking O’Callaghan when he moves outside the ’21.

To win, Kilcormac will need to cut out the space for the Cuala attack. They will need their half-back line to be no further out than the 45m line, will need both midfielders around the defensive ’65, the half-forwards no further than the attacking ’65. Of course, Cuala will look to do the same thing. So one team is going to dictate the terms and the other is going to submit to them. That’s the drawing of the battle lines, and is what separates champions from the also rans.

Nor is it ideal for Kilcormac that their attack leader (Ciarán Slevin) will line out so deep. Slevin has done well this year running from deep, taking a pass on the run around the 45m line and slotting over. Were Cillian Kiely available, there might have been scope to play him in the half-forward line, but to change both midfielders would not be a wise move at this stage.

Might be a game for Stephen Leonard to run at the Cuala defence too. And the Offaly champions would do well to play Daniel Currams on the right side of the attack (where he can turn in onto his left), or perhaps at full-forward. They need James Gorman to score three points, and they need a complete and thorough performance from Thomas and Peter Geraghty. Time for them to come of age now.

Much has been made of Cillian Kiely’s suspension, but suffice to say Cuala will line out with their U21 star, and in his best position at that, while Kilcormac will not. There has been provocation at all levels of sport since time immemorial, and Darragh Ó Sé’s June 2015 Irish Times piece on Diarmuid Connolly “I still think there’s something to be said for pulling his tail and seeing if he’ll hiss back at you” springs to mind. Diarmuid Healy’s dictum of – tee best retaliation is to put the ball over the bar – springs to mind too.

No fears about Killian Leonard, who should set the tone with a hefty dunt on an inrushing attacker during the final’s early stages. No fears about either Grogan either, and Jordan Quinn can advance his claim for a call from Kevin Martin (or from the people who select the hurler of the year, though this award generally goes to a freetaker) if he can continue his 2017 form. Or about Damien Kilmartin either, who will be needed to cover his full-back.

Brian Leonard’s availability would be a massive bonus. He hardly has enough hurling done to slot straight in to midfield (which would be the ideal scenario), but even 20 minutes would help, to bring on a ball winner who could fetch a puckout or two when the lungs are burning inside. If there is a concern it is that the Kilcormac-Killoughey bench, while brim full of defensive options (Mcconville, Mahon, Lowry, James Geraghty, Chris Guinan), it is scant of attacking options. And just how bad were Mount Leinster Rangers. And why does it take a sending off to light a match under K-K this Leinster campaign? All will be revealed on Sunday.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby kaiserchief » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:50 am

I'd be of the opinion that Byrne won't start Stephen Leonard. It's a game that requires experience. Leonard will be used on the day but not a starter. He could be in for Peter Healion after a few minutes like the last day.

I think your right, Ger Healion will be told to stay on the square and Kilmartin just in front of him. Enda Grogan will take Callaghan and Killian will take Kenny. the problem is if Mark Schutte is fit to play and who takes David Treacy. I think Kevin Grogan will take Schutte . This is where i would see Kilcormac playin negative in the first half to stop Treacy, dropping a man back and basically keeping themselves in the game. If Brian Leonard is fit to play I think he is the ideal candidate and will be named in the forwards and drop back to the half back line. If not Brian I would see Cathal Mahon or Oisin Mahon doing this role.

Peter Gerathy will start midfield with Slevin. He has hurled in midfield in the past and his work rate is 110%.

The key for Kilcormac is the half forward line. Gorman Mahon and Thomas Gerathy, maybe even Currams.. Stoppin good ball going into the Cuala forwards and giving the defenders a chance.

It wont be a high scoring game and will most definitely need a goal. they have been scoring goals all year and have plenty of lads to get one. Slevin's frees will be crucial and he need's to be 90% conversion or better. Especially when Kiely won't be there to take the long ones.

Going to be a hard task. The very best of luck to KK.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby sam88885a » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:27 pm

Kiely is a big loss but KK have options B Leonard or O Mahon could play as defensive midfielders both brilliant in the air .KK have the option of playing P Healion on the 40 putting, Gorman at full forward and bringing C Mahon to midfield but i expect P Geraghty to start in midfield and S Leonard to come into the forwards .
One worry is if anything happened to C Slevin who take the free? ,Kiely is suspended ,B Leonard isnt making the team .
I dont think Cuala have meet a team like KK .
This final is set up nicely for KK, written off by everyone ,up against the All Ireland Champions ,going to be run raged by a star studded team in many peoples eyes .
I think KK will silence a lot of the critics on sunday .
Best of luck KK
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Lone Shark » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:02 pm

sam88885a wrote:This final is set up nicely for KK, written off by everyone ,up against the All Ireland Champions ,going to be run raged by a star studded team in many peoples eyes .
I think KK will silence a lot of the critics on sunday .


Just out of curiosity, where have you seen any of this? I've read a lot of previews of this game, lots of analysis, and not one piece of "criticism" of Kilcormac-Killoughey, nor anyone writing them off, as you put it.

Bear in mind here that suggesting that Cuala are the favourites is not the same as writing off the opposition.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby kaiserchief » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:23 pm

I agree.. Ridiculous statement once again by sam88885a.

I wonder do you go to Paddypower who have Cuala at 1/6 and complain about their critism.

As a supporter of Offaly hurling I would love to see KK win. (especially when there lads have comitted to Kevin Martin for 2018. )What a boost it would be for Offaly hurling to have these lads back in the step up having winning Leinster. Would give everyone a lift, but (ther's always a but) I am a realist and heavily fancy Cuala to win.

They are as much star studded team as KK are. For me the difference is that they are a much younger team coming off the back of an all ireland club, easy enough dublin title, beat the kilkenny and wexford champions by more than 10 points and are all looking to get on a dublin team. (apart for Con Callaghan who just loves winning trophies).

Paddypower has the handicap at 6 points and I would somewhat agree.. Portlaoise will be a small shock for Cuala compared to Parnell park... It will be a handicap draw for me!
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:21 pm

I'd say Kevin Gragan will pick up David Treacy. DT tends to hurl on the left flank anyway. Mark Schutte generally hurls on their right side, and Jordan Quinn would be well suited to marking him. I'd be loath to make serial changes to a defence. There must be a temptation to move Killian Leonard to fill the vacant midfield slot and introduce a corner back, but that would be a wrong thing to do. Where did Con Mahon ever go to? He was promising back around 2013 and 2014.

That being the case, if Brian Leonard doesn't have 45+ minutes in him and is unable to start, who does get the start if it is not to be Stephen Leonard? Agree Peter Geraghty will most likely start at midfield, which was the switch following the sending off the last day. It is a concern that, outside of Stephen and Brian Leonard (and there must be a 90% chance one of them two will start) Kilcormac's forwards alternatives are scant.
kaiserchief wrote:I'd be of the opinion that Byrne won't start Stephen Leonard. It's a game that requires experience. Leonard will be used on the day but not a starter. He could be in for Peter Healion after a few minutes like the last day.

I think your right, Ger Healion will be told to stay on the square and Kilmartin just in front of him. Enda Grogan will take Callaghan and Killian will take Kenny. the problem is if Mark Schutte is fit to play and who takes David Treacy. I think Kevin Grogan will take Schutte . This is where i would see Kilcormac playin negative in the first half to stop Treacy, dropping a man back and basically keeping themselves in the game. If Brian Leonard is fit to play I think he is the ideal candidate and will be named in the forwards and drop back to the half back line. If not Brian I would see Cathal Mahon or Oisin Mahon doing this role.

Peter Gerathy will start midfield with Slevin. He has hurled in midfield in the past and his work rate is 110%.

The key for Kilcormac is the half forward line. Gorman Mahon and Thomas Gerathy, maybe even Currams.. Stoppin good ball going into the Cuala forwards and giving the defenders a chance.

It wont be a high scoring game and will most definitely need a goal. they have been scoring goals all year and have plenty of lads to get one. Slevin's frees will be crucial and he need's to be 90% conversion or better. Especially when Kiely won't be there to take the long ones.

Going to be a hard task. The very best of luck to KK.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:31 pm

While I'm at it, these are the positions Cuala took up at the start of their semi-final win over St Martin's:

Seán Brennan;
Oisín Gough, Cian O'Callaghan, Simon Timlin;
John Sheanon, Seán Moran, Paul Schutte (capt.);
Seán Treacy, Colum Sheanon (0-1);
Darragh O'Connell, Colm Cronin (1-1), Jake Malone (1-1);
Con O'Callaghan (1-3), Nicky Kenny (0-3), David Treacy (0-6, 4 frees, 1 '65).
Subs. - Niall Carty (0-1) for Con O'Callaghan (51), Cian Waldron for Cronin (51), Ross Tierney for J. Sheanon (53), Shane Stapleton for C. Sheanon (57), Brian Fitzgerald (0-1) for Kenny (57).

That's two changes from the All-Ireland team, with Colum Sheanon and Nicky Kenny replacing Cían Waldron and the injured Mark Schutte.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Kevin » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:10 pm

Good luck and best wishes to K-K on the big day!!!

Go get 'em boys!!!!
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby uibhfhaili » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:26 pm

Looked to me like the end of KK's run at this level. A lot of players gone well past their best. Decision to start Healion on CO'C plain daft. Oh well at least the Offaly senior side will have a full pick for the league.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Toxicity234 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:36 pm

I sum up what i though of the match later
for now i'll just put up what one of my dublin friend ( a senior hurling ref in dublin) said about the game when i rang him after the game.
"It's very hard to Beat a Ref that is given you nothing, not even the one the rulebook said you could get, His head must be up his own arse"
“Common sense is not so common.”
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby manfromdelmonte » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:10 pm

crazy matchups and no defensive plan.
game was over after 10mins.
only the best...
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby jimbob17 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:44 pm

One big difference today between teams for me was fitness and mobility. Cuala were on another level. KK were doing their best in traditional sense but couldn't keep up with oppositions support play and off the ball running in middle third. They always seemed to have an extra man to offload it to even in first half when at full strength and they made it all look so easy.

Cuala delivery of ball to their forwards was exemplary throughout and they could easily have won by more if forwards were more efficient. Con callaghan did untold damage when it mattered winning ball and laying it off and with more hurling behind him, will get scores easier after Christmas.

It was like a county team against a club team such was the difference in standards. While KK tried their best or perhaps didn't play well, there was an obvious gulf in class evident.

We could be looking at one of the best club teams of all time in action (only time will tell) and I would be surprised if they don't make it back to Croke park for St Patrick day.

All that said, thought P Geraghty had a solid game and is a player suited to modern inter county game and needs to be used by Kevin Martin. Enda Grogan and Quinn did well in patches too and are players for the future that could be developed into county players.
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