Offaly GAA - in Crisis

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.

Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby True Red » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:48 pm

I have removed the question mark at the end of the Subject line of this thread.

Safe to say we are now in a crisis in terms of Inter County Hurling and Football in this county.

On the plus side of the ledger we have an amazing County ground and the new training facility in Kilcormac is nearly ready to launch.

What is required NOW is a serious review and subsequent action plan by all stakeholders involved in GAA affairs in this county. Are the members of the County Board Executive capable of such a process? Time will tell.

A press release at the minimum addressing the recent issues would be nice as well???!!!!
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby NewEra » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:59 pm

True Red wrote:I have removed the question mark at the end of the Subject line of this thread.

Safe to say we are now in a crisis in terms of Inter County Hurling and Football in this county.

On the plus side of the ledger we have an amazing County ground and the new training facility in Kilcormac is nearly ready to launch.

What is required NOW is a serious review and subsequent action plan by all stakeholders involved in GAA affairs in this county. Are the members of the County Board Executive capable of such a process? Time will tell.

A press release at the minimum addressing the recent issues would be nice as well???!!!!


You can remove the question mark from your last question aswell!
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis?

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:27 pm

Part of the problem is that too many people seen to think there is a black or white scenario where Offaly prepare either for a 'get rid of it' game using 3-3-2-3-3 or play with one or more sweepers. I think everyone knows the Offaly underage system (such as it is) merely prepares young hurlers for the former. Now, it's all very well going out with the old cliches "get rid of it", "on the ground", "drive it" and all that. But how is an Offaly lad to cope with an opposition who might play with a sweeper, a deep lying midfield and half-forward line, who play handpasses (God help us), who support the ball carrier, who run at angles, who are able to cetch the dropping ball (God help us all), whose corner-forwards make runs across the '21' as opposed to outfield, who are several years into a S&C programme and who are just basically unpredictable.

And until that attitude changes, Offaly is going to continue to slide and is going to end up like Wicklow.
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substandard wrote:but I'm wondering about his use of the word 'traditionalist'...

Unfortunately we know what it implies.
Though at this rate we should probably just put a 'get rid of it' merchant in charge.
If players are going to play modern style of hurling, they need to be learning it well before they hit senior.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis?

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:30 pm

Absolutely, as long as underage is ignored, and counties ranked below Offaly continue to improve. Remember hurling is constantly changing. To many seem to think hurling changed once around 15 years ago, leaving Offaly behind, and that Offaly don't need to do anything except wait for the top counties to deteriorate back a level. Not gonna happen.
Bord na Mona man wrote:
NewEra wrote:Can we go any lower?

Yes.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby Towerus » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:49 pm

Where did this thing of a "get rid of it" game come from? Is the suggestion here that this used to be Offaly's "style"? They played a game of moving it on fast, but with direction, not just a "get rid of it" game. I don't see why that would now be considered irrelevant?

As for defensive game not being pretty to watch, it's not just ugly to watch, it didn't work for us, unless we seriously think we'd have lost by more without two sweepers?? We beat Westmeath, who went on to give Tipp a half decent challenge, but had it been us playing Tipp they'd probably have beaten us out the gate with our defensive set up.
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby allstar2010 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:36 pm

Great opportunity for Duignan and Daithi Regan to step forward and take over The senior team.
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby Bord na Mona man » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:42 pm

Towerus wrote:Where did this thing of a "get rid of it" game come from? Is the suggestion here that this used to be Offaly's "style"? They played a game of moving it on fast, but with direction, not just a "get rid of it" game. I don't see why that would now be considered irrelevant?

'Get rid of it' is now the default style of hurling in Offaly.

When I see an Offaly player lamp the ball upfield as quick as possible and straight into the paw of an opposition sweeper, I wonder how often he was instructed to 'get rid of it' as opposed to being coached how to develop the play.

Or when the dinosaurs start roaring 'get rid of it' at some fella who dares to handpass it or stickpass it to a colleague.
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby jimbob17 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:00 am

Towerus wrote:Where did this thing of a "get rid of it" game come from? Is the suggestion here that this used to be Offaly's "style"? They played a game of moving it on fast, but with direction, not just a "get rid of it" game. I don't see why that would now be considered irrelevant?

As for defensive game not being pretty to watch, it's not just ugly to watch, it didn't work for us, unless we seriously think we'd have lost by more without two sweepers?? We beat Westmeath, who went on to give Tipp a half decent challenge, but had it been us playing Tipp they'd probably have beaten us out the gate with our defensive set up.


We can dress it up whatever way we want but we were absolutely blessed to beat Westmeath this year. Westmeath hurled us off the pitch and still failed to beat us. In my opinion, they'd have beaten us 6 or 7 points but for the errors of their goalie. We robbed them.

That said, we didnt go defensive against them and we were able to score as a result. We aren't good enough at present to beat a top 8 team even though we are probably ranked in top 10 (just about). That doesnt mean we should accept we are beaten and play the way we have with 2 sweepers. We should have a bit of respect for who we are, show a bit of pride and play to win - even if we probably wont. We should front up and back our players in the belief that if they are not good enough at the moment, that we can improve and be better in the future. This craic of throwing in the towel before the game starts and playing two sweepers absolutely rots me. While the county board have a lot to answer for, the resignation of Kevin Ryan is in the best interests of Offaly hurling from what I have seen this year.

Lets hope they get knowledgeable local people in with the ability to get the best hurlers on board for a few years. Back them up with modern and appropriately qualified and experienced coaching backroom team and we could be very competitive very quickly. Some fine players out there in early 20s who with the right coaching and fitness levels could really push us forward ie Emmet Nolan, Paddy Murphy, Oisin Kelly, Cillian Kiely. Back them up with the best older players (Mahon, Currams, Murphy, Coughlan etc and many of whom have stayed away the last year or two) and I genuinely feel we could get to a level close to that which likes of Clare, Limerick and Wexford are at!

All that said, once the county board start or continue to take short cuts, then players will not commit and we will fall further away and interest will wane. At moment we are probably on a level with Westmeath, Laoise, Carlow, Meath, Kerry, Kildare and Antrim. Another year or two of neglect and they will all have passed us out!
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:02 am

The plan might be to move the ball with direction, but under pressure, Offaly will resort to merely hitting the ball out of their way. Because Offaly don't want possession of the ball - they'd rather fire it away to the opposition. Time was when a hook or a block would regain possession, and a score would result - nowadays an opposition hurler isn't forced into a turnover as he can often lay off a pass to a colleague running at an angle at speed.
Towerus wrote:Where did this thing of a "get rid of it" game come from? Is the suggestion here that this used to be Offaly's "style"? They played a game of moving it on fast, but with direction, not just a "get rid of it" game. I don't see why that would now be considered irrelevant?

As for defensive game not being pretty to watch, it's not just ugly to watch, it didn't work for us, unless we seriously think we'd have lost by more without two sweepers?? We beat Westmeath, who went on to give Tipp a half decent challenge, but had it been us playing Tipp they'd probably have beaten us out the gate with our defensive set up.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:11 am

Sweepers or no sweepers, Waterford spent the match showing Offaly how to hurl the game with four forwards - by going down the flanks at every opportunity. Most of Waterford's good play was done within three yards of the sideline, and they always had extra men over, despite Offaly supposedly having extra defenders. Offaly tried this, but once they got to their own '65, play just seemed to gravitate infield and possession was lost because the ball was swept infield to where Waterford had packed the area between their own '45 and '65. I'm not making a case for Kevin Ryan here, he's not the man to lead Offaly and he admits as much himself, but it shows any king of tactical plans are lost on an Offaly team.
jimbob17 wrote:We can dress it up whatever way we want but we were absolutely blessed to beat Westmeath this year. Westmeath hurled us off the pitch and still failed to beat us. In my opinion, they'd have beaten us 6 or 7 points but for the errors of their goalie. We robbed them.

That said, we didnt go defensive against them and we were able to score as a result. We aren't good enough at present to beat a top 8 team even though we are probably ranked in top 10 (just about). That doesnt mean we should accept we are beaten and play the way we have with 2 sweepers. We should have a bit of respect for who we are, show a bit of pride and play to win - even if we probably wont. We should front up and back our players in the belief that if they are not good enough at the moment, that we can improve and be better in the future. This craic of throwing in the towel before the game starts and playing two sweepers absolutely rots me. While the county board have a lot to answer for, the resignation of Kevin Ryan is in the best interests of Offaly hurling from what I have seen this year.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby Toxicity234 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:20 pm

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/ ... 55159.html

It's a good read.

They a comment here that I want to pick up on.
The hurling changed about 15 years ago and left Offaly behind.
I think this is wrong, What happened. Was Offaly appointed managers at all level to make change to the style of Offaly hurling but forgot to tell the Club they were doing this.
The clubs produced hurler after hurler that when they went to the county panel ended up playing a different game that they were playing at club level.
The other change in hurling is around Kilkenny style of hurling since Cody took charge. which from the 90's hasn't change a much. The main difference was Kilkenny teams that Cody start picking 13 players that were Tall, Strong and in there mid 20's when coming into the team.
We were picking 18 year old and they were getting hammered. At 21 years old our players are almost finished.

The other is Duignan and Daithi Regan been appointed.
Lads The two boys won a minor title by one point and have almost no management experience.
I'm not ruling them out but Minor and U21 manager would be better for there development than the senior job at the moment. There huge potential but like players, Development mangers is an art form. Push them too early and you destroy them.

The next appointment is almost impossible. If the appointment is from inside the county, Who would take the job at this stage. It would take a Hurling man of excellent standing to get everyone on board, with a hard edge to deal with the issue around years of mis management or an extend management team from inside the county to try to bring everyone back together.
Or from someone outside the county. Again. this is very hard to see. A whole management team from outside the county maybe an idea. No one with any connection to the county in the management team to trying and remove all issue and give a fresh start. But again Not sure if that would be a good idea.

Another thing is the idea that we can have one game plan. The issue around Sweepers is a bit rubbish. The issue is stick to the same game plan for the whole match. long after team have figured out a way around out game plan.
The great manager have more than one idea and even the not great one, change there plan when things are going south.
Our manager have watch up and complained that the players didn't stick to the plan.

Maybe its time to do the rugby management training thing, where a beginning level they learn that you should have 4 game plan and you rotate the game plan every 10 mins to stop the opponents get to grips with it.

At this moment in time. the most important thing is that is that we get Honest from the CB. That the appointment is done is a transparent way. That the Clubs are happy with the appointment and that the players are happier.
Someone positive, Someone hard, Someone that managed a large group of people before. Someone that remember the player name and someone who can remember player personal issue and offer a hand around the shoulder instead of dropping them.
This manager need to be all thing to all men but most of all he need to be an manager not another coach.
This is now the Hardest job in hurling.
“Common sense is not so common.”
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby substandard » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:49 pm

Toxicity234 wrote:http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/state-of-offaly-hurling-absolutely-deplorable-455159.html

It's a good read.

They a comment here that I want to pick up on.
The hurling changed about 15 years ago and left Offaly behind.
I think this is wrong, What happened. Was Offaly appointed managers at all level to make change to the style of Offaly hurling but forgot to tell the Club they were doing this.
The clubs produced hurler after hurler that when they went to the county panel ended up playing a different game that they were playing at club level.
The other change in hurling is around Kilkenny style of hurling since Cody took charge. which from the 90's hasn't change a much. The main difference was Kilkenny teams that Cody start picking 13 players that were Tall, Strong and in there mid 20's when coming into the team.
We were picking 18 year old and they were getting hammered. At 21 years old our players are almost finished.

The other is Duignan and Daithi Regan been appointed.
Lads The two boys won a minor title by one point and have almost no management experience.
I'm not ruling them out but Minor and U21 manager would be better for there development than the senior job at the moment. There huge potential but like players, Development mangers is an art form. Push them too early and you destroy them.

The next appointment is almost impossible. If the appointment is from inside the county, Who would take the job at this stage. It would take a Hurling man of excellent standing to get everyone on board, with a hard edge to deal with the issue around years of mis management or an extend management team from inside the county to try to bring everyone back together.
Or from someone outside the county. Again. this is very hard to see. A whole management team from outside the county maybe an idea. No one with any connection to the county in the management team to trying and remove all issue and give a fresh start. But again Not sure if that would be a good idea.

Another thing is the idea that we can have one game plan. The issue around Sweepers is a bit rubbish. The issue is stick to the same game plan for the whole match. long after team have figured out a way around out game plan.
The great manager have more than one idea and even the not great one, change there plan when things are going south.
Our manager have watch up and complained that the players didn't stick to the plan.

Maybe its time to do the rugby management training thing, where a beginning level they learn that you should have 4 game plan and you rotate the game plan every 10 mins to stop the opponents get to grips with it.

At this moment in time. the most important thing is that is that we get Honest from the CB. That the appointment is done is a transparent way. That the Clubs are happy with the appointment and that the players are happier.
Someone positive, Someone hard, Someone that managed a large group of people before. Someone that remember the player name and someone who can remember player personal issue and offer a hand around the shoulder instead of dropping them.
This manager need to be all thing to all men but most of all he need to be an manager not another coach.
This is now the Hardest job in hurling.


Very good post. A few comments back, somebody listed a number of players outside the panel, and it was commented that they were all there before. This would suggest that, regardless who is manager, or even the next two or three managers at current rate of turnover, will merely be rearranging the chairs on the titanic.
There are two sides to this- one is that it's mission impossible, so apart from an initial surge among supporters if, say, Anthony Daly was appointed- how much could he actually do, given that so many players have a lifetime's deficit of coaching, s/c, etc? The alternative is that AN Other takes on the job, and ends up pilloried. Behind either scenario is how well resourced the squad would be. This has been the stumbling block for years- hopefully the Faithful Fields can go some way to progressing teams in both codes.
The task to even attain stability would be huge. The current squad have been on the back foot since their underage days. I firmly believe that, in both football and hurling, Offaly needs to establish a development-style program for 18-22 year old prospects to broaden players' chances of becoming effective county seniors. The immediate objection would be financial, but without investment and a strategic plan, Offaly will fall further and further behind.
I always prefer potential solutions to complaints about the problem, although given the way the hurling plan seems to have panned out...
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby manfromdelmonte » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:58 pm

Get lads fit, be organised, improve the skill level and decide on a method of playing based on the players available
the same as every club side in the country
there is no 'offaly style'.
it was based on a particular set of players that were around at that time. Its time to move on.

There are counties out there with no proper training centres, no proper stadium and very rural populations who get on with the business of producing good quality young players and giving them plenty of good games through the underage system and schools.

They get enthusiastic people involved, provide the training and upskilling needed for coaches and then support the coaches with what is needed to improve things.

It's not rocket science.
only the best...
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:50 pm

I made that comment. And I stand over it. Anyone who thinks hurling did not change, and is not changing, shouldn't be let go to matches. It is this kind of thinking that has Offaly hurling stagnant and it will remain so until roses, coffee and everything else is smelt. Offaly were quickly left behind from 2001 - 2002 onwards, and that was that. Hint: the premium on possession, and on being a team game as opposed to one for 15 individuals.

You got away with driving a ball away in the old days because the opposition often gave it back to you five seconds later- that doesn't happen any more.

If anything, I should have wrote last night that hurling is constantly changing, as opposed to changed once 15 years ago. That hurling is changing is a good thing. Anything that is not changing its state, that remains stagnant, is dying. Fortunately, the best hurlers are now, and the best hurling, is now. And hurling shouldn't have to, and won't slow its rate of development in order that Offaly can keep up.
Toxicity234 wrote:They a comment here that I want to pick up on.
The hurling changed about 15 years ago and left Offaly behind.
I think this is wrong, What happened. Was Offaly appointed managers at all level to make change to the style of Offaly hurling but forgot to tell the Club they were doing this.
The clubs produced hurler after hurler that when they went to the county panel ended up playing a different game that they were playing at club level.
The other change in hurling is around Kilkenny style of hurling since Cody took charge. which from the 90's hasn't change a much. The main difference was Kilkenny teams that Cody start picking 13 players that were Tall, Strong and in there mid 20's when coming into the team.
We were picking 18 year old and they were getting hammered. At 21 years old our players are almost finished.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly GAA - in Crisis

Postby sam88885a » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:30 am

Galway Cork and Tipp are attacking teams who play fast direct ball into skillfull forwards .Waterford Wexford and Clare are much more defensive and play with a sweeper . So which are playing modern hurling????
To me the first 3 are playing attacking hurling ,the other 3 are playing with fear.
I prefer watch Offaly try Galway Tipp and Cork style of play than the sweeper system ,they result may be the same but at least lads get a chance to hurl and express themselves .
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