Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:37 pm

I'm not having a go at you when I say this, biff, because you're a good contributor and have made several sensible points. But I don't agree we've the expertise within the county. And I think this is one of the reasons things continue to deteriorate. Hardly any of the Al-Ireland winners have good track records as coaches. Hardly any have an understanding of modern hurling. At the moment there are hardly any Offaly men managing club sides outside the county. I'd love to think there's someone within the county who could drive things forward, but (and I've said this before, if there was a messiah here he'd likely have stepped forward by now.
biffinbanner wrote:i know most on here want a solution.certainly kevin ryan is a genuine guy but he hasnt got a "feel" for offaly i think..were better off get an offaly man and close up ranks and try and get out of it ourselves.bringing kilkenny men down to advise isnt the way to go in my opinion.its not long ago we were as good as them...weve lots of expertise inside the county.use it

As I see it. there really isn't an appetite at any level to put in the hard work required to resuscitate Offaly hurling. No leadership from the board; no expertise within the county; no understanding of modern hurling - that s&c is for othe counties who can't hurl; that we don't do tactics so we should hurl in a neat 3-3-2-3-3 formation because we swallow the bullshit that Kilkenny don't do tactics and therefore neither should we.

The slide will continue. Fair to say Leix and Westmeath have overtaken Offaly at this stage. Kildare and Meath will be next. Rockbottom is probably around the level of Wicklow - our underage is probably on a par with theirs. The next level down would be counties like Armagh or Down where there are only about three hurling clubs anyway.

It's tough on the players at all levels who are sent out in their tricoloured jerseys, but totally underprepared for what awaits them. There is no glory to be got from hurling for Offaly. And every year there's fresh bullshit - XXL tops being ordered for Minors. Avoidable crap.

Finally, it's time we scrapped this 'Faithful County' crap. Thee's nothing 'faithful' about what's going on, at any level of Offaly hurling or football. Too much living i the past going on.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby kingscounty » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:22 pm

What can be done !! Surely if we copied another counties underage structures that are seeing results we should see improvement? I played club hurling for years and I am getting sick of the way hurling is taking a hammering in Offaly, I am getting an itch to step up and start coaching or at least help out where I can.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby allstar2010 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:26 pm

Plain of the Herbs wrote:But I don't agree we've the expertise within the county. And I think this is one of the reasons things continue to deteriorate. Hardly any of the Al-Ireland winners have good track records as coaches. Hardly any have an understanding of modern hurling. At the moment there are hardly any Offaly men managing .


Absolutely nail on head. Nearly 20years on since our last All Ireland win and I can't think of anyone of them that's actually made a go of it at managerial/coaching level. A few have done well spouting dung on the national media though!!
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby sam88885a » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:43 pm

As I see it. there really isn't an appetite at any level to put in the hard work required to resuscitate Offaly hurling. No leadership from the board; no expertise within the county; no understanding of modern hurling - that s&c is for othe counties who can't hurl; that we don't do tactics so we should hurl in a neat 3-3-2-3-3 formation because we swallow the bullshit that Kilkenny don't do tactics and therefore neither should we.



How can u say we dont do tactics when we played 3-2-3-2 -2 -2 against Galway and played a 3-3 3 -3 -2 formation against Waterford .
In my opinion they were crazy tactics because the better team can pick off point from 70 yards if unmarked .
Wexford sweeper system is well thought out ,their half get forward and score but it failed badly because Galway have Quality hurlers.
Wexford have huge hipe around them this year,but we hammered them last year in the league .What has happen since ,they got a new manager who has talked them up and has developed a team spirit whereas we got Mr Doom and Gloom.
The players dont want him the supporters dont want him but the cb love him.
We need to do as B Carroll said and build from u 8 u10 up but also we need to keep the boat afloat at senior county level .That has not happened under B Whelahan E Kelly or K Ryan ,all have made thing worse and talked about underage development which is not their job .
THE senior county manager job is to get the best guys in club hurling to line out for offaly have them trained to a high level ,fit and build a team spirit and have a plan that everyone understands .
Our senior team is our shop window and it looks ransacked right now and i blame the cb .D Owens should have got the job in 2014 .He had created a buzz around KK and would have carried that feel good factor into the job . He couldnt have done worse that Kelly or Ryan .
I Disagree we still have decent hurlers , B Connelly C Doughan P Murphy S Kinsella C Kiely O Kelly E Nolan are good young hurlers but the deserve a manager that can develop them not destroy them.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Bord na Mona man » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:49 pm

As regards Kevin Ryan, you can join the dots from what he's said over the year and how he's set up the team. I get the impression that on taking the job he overestimated the standard of Offaly hurling. He got an ice bucket awakening in the league game against Galway when Offaly were dismantled.

Perhaps the couple of heavy defeats to Tipp later in the Spring drove him onto his shell and made up his mind to focus on damage limitation. Remember that Offaly have always picked up thrashings in the past and quickly turned things around. However he obviously never believed that this was going to happen. The sweeper systems employed are good at keeping the goals count down. Though maybe counter-productive in trying to keeping the points total down. Would a conventional full back line with a deep lying centre back have averted Austin Gleeson thundering through the middle for about a dozen scoring chances? I don't know, but maybe it's possible.

What he's said recently about the commitment puts him Eamonn Kelly parting shot territory, rather than a man with a multi year plan to rebuild the team.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Bord na Mona man » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:53 pm

kingscounty wrote:What can be done !! Surely if we copied another counties underage structures that are seeing results we should see improvement? I played club hurling for years and I am getting sick of the way hurling is taking a hammering in Offaly, I am getting an itch to step up and start coaching or at least help out where I can.

I'd say by all means go for it, if you have any time to give at all.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Bord na Mona man » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:32 am

sam88885a wrote:
Plain of the Herbs wrote:As I see it. there really isn't an appetite at any level to put in the hard work required to resuscitate Offaly hurling. No leadership from the board; no expertise within the county; no understanding of modern hurling - that s&c is for othe counties who can't hurl; that we don't do tactics so we should hurl in a neat 3-3-2-3-3 formation because we swallow the bullshit that Kilkenny don't do tactics and therefore neither should we.

How can u say we dont do tactics when we played 3-2-3-2 -2 -2 against Galway and played a 3-3 3 -3 -2 formation against Waterford .


Ahem, I think the point here is that through a bit of cute hoorism and false modesty, Brian Cody has a lot of people convinced that Kilkenny don't bother with tactics. He just picks the 15 and they fan out to their positions.

A lot of Offaly hurling flat earthers get a great kick out of this notion. Confirmation bias and all that.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:28 am

Hey, Sam, did you write that yourself? Thought not.
sam88885a wrote:As I see it. there really isn't an appetite at any level to put in the hard work required to resuscitate Offaly hurling. No leadership from the board; no expertise within the county; no understanding of modern hurling - that s&c is for othe counties who can't hurl; that we don't do tactics so we should hurl in a neat 3-3-2-3-3 formation because we swallow the bullshit that Kilkenny don't do tactics and therefore neither should we.


I don't think anyone is surprised the point went over your head. Plóiteach. And having trouble with hyphens and spaces, I see?
sam88885a wrote: How can u say we dont do tactics when we played 3-2-3-2 -2 -2 against Galway and played a 3-3 3 -3 -2 formation against Waterford .
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Towerus » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:43 am

C'mon POTH, smart arse answers aren't going to help much are they? Be nice.

Brian Carroll could be a great manager, COULD be, we don't know, not yet at least. We can't afford to give another green manager a teeth-cutting opportunity. Besides, he's doing a good job where he is and I'd be surprised if he even wanted the job - yet. In hindsight Dooley was the best in recent times and we were in hard luck not to pull off a much needed win that could have helped stop the rot. I am convinced that the current squad (plus some of the others who could be there) can at least be competitive, with the right person at the helm.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Exiled in Connacht » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:15 pm

After the loss to Laois 2 years ago I set out on this site that we should deal with the following 9 points and I still believe they are relevant. Point 3 substitute K.Ryan's name for B. Whelahan -

1. Accept where we are now without qualification i.e. at rock bottom
2. Forget about what we have won in the past (and for me this is difficult)
3. Forget the blame game i.e. It's the County Boards fault, its Brian Whelehans fault, it's the current players fault etc etc
4. Accept that ALL our resources must go into games development at underage level
5. Accept that we will not be competitive EVER again at the highest level at senior inter county level unless we address point 4
6. Accept that there isn't one player in the county over the age of say 15 who has been coached properly to play at the highest level
7. Accept that we can write off the next 7/10 years at senior inter county level and therefore forget about throwing money at bringing in a big name manager from outside the county. Not that anyone would touch us with a barge pole now anyway
8. Hope that Croke Park accept that money must be dispersed to weaker counties to promote hurling. We need to hold out the begging bowl because money is needed and lots of it . However are there sufficiently qualified people in the county to spend this money wisely if we do receive it ?
9. Look to form one Offaly team to play in Leinster colleges competitions
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby sam88885a » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:08 pm

Exiled in Connacht wrote:After the loss to Laois 2 years ago I set out on this site that we should deal with the following 9 points and I still believe they are relevant. Point 3 substitute K.Ryan's name for B. Whelahan -

1. Accept where we are now without qualification i.e. at rock bottom
2. Forget about what we have won in the past (and for me this is difficult)
3. Forget the blame game i.e. It's the County Boards fault, its Brian Whelehans fault, it's the current players fault etc etc
4. Accept that ALL our resources must go into games development at underage level
5. Accept that we will not be competitive EVER again at the highest level at senior inter county level unless we address point 4
6. Accept that there isn't one player in the county over the age of say 15 who has been coached properly to play at the highest level
7. Accept that we can write off the next 7/10 years at senior inter county level and therefore forget about throwing money at bringing in a big name manager from outside the county. Not that anyone would touch us with a barge pole now anyway
8. Hope that Croke Park accept that money must be dispersed to weaker counties to promote hurling. We need to hold out the begging bowl because money is needed and lots of it . However are there sufficiently qualified people in the county to spend this money wisely if we do receive it ?
9. Look to form one Offaly team to play in Leinster colleges competitions


I Disagree how can u write off the next 7/ 10 years ,Every efford must be made to keep Offaly senior hurling alive so that the young lads have a team to support .Yes huge resources need to go into underage but its not one or the other .
The dogs on the street know if offaly had every one on board and had a decent plan with a good manager we would compete with most teams but sadly E Kelly and K Ryan can for the money and told the clowns in the cb what the wanted to hear .
Offaly hurling has payed a huge price already but worse may come if K Ryan doesnt go soon .
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:32 am

Still valid points, EiC. Without those criteria being dealt with, the denial will continue, as will the fall in rankings.

I get the impression the ‘Pathway’ Programme that Brian Carroll was involved in producing places a much greater emphasis on what is expected of club coaches when introducing the very young to hurling. That being the case, it would appear by implication that there is little hope for those who are currently teenagers to bridge the gap, skillsets wise, with those of a similar age from other counties. That may not be the case, but my impression is that it is, and I must admit I was a little taken aback at the time

One of the biggest disappointments last year was that Birr School insisted on fielding a team in Leinster A Colleges and by doing so, meant the Offaly selection that took part in Leinster A Colleges was denied from fielding at full strength. Stuborn pride. Birr are completely out of their depth at that level and really should be in B grade, and Birr regrading would enable Offaly to have a full hand to pick from.

Banagher's interest in the Leinster B Colleges was ended by Naas this year. Naas have got their act together and have benefitted hugely from their link up with the club game in Kilkenny.

Another problem is that we’ll probably always have hurling snobbery, a denial that Killeigh won Minor A in 2015, a denial that Ballinamere followed suit last year, yadda yadda.

Exiled in Connacht wrote:After the loss to Laois 2 years ago I set out on this site that we should deal with the following 9 points and I still believe they are relevant. Point 3 substitute K.Ryan's name for B. Whelahan -

1. Accept where we are now without qualification i.e. at rock bottom
2. Forget about what we have won in the past (and for me this is difficult)
3. Forget the blame game i.e. It's the County Boards fault, its Brian Whelehans fault, it's the current players fault etc etc
4. Accept that ALL our resources must go into games development at underage level
5. Accept that we will not be competitive EVER again at the highest level at senior inter county level unless we address point 4
6. Accept that there isn't one player in the county over the age of say 15 who has been coached properly to play at the highest level
7. Accept that we can write off the next 7/10 years at senior inter county level and therefore forget about throwing money at bringing in a big name manager from outside the county. Not that anyone would touch us with a barge pole now anyway
8. Hope that Croke Park accept that money must be dispersed to weaker counties to promote hurling. We need to hold out the begging bowl because money is needed and lots of it . However are there sufficiently qualified people in the county to spend this money wisely if we do receive it ?
9. Look to form one Offaly team to play in Leinster colleges competitions
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:35 am

I should have said – the one former Offaly hurler with a successful track record of management at anything near the top level was Liam Hogan. Nearly sure he was Bainisteoir for each of Ballyboden St Enda’s five successive Dublin SHC titles (he was there for most of them anyway). And we saw how shamefully his comprehensive report was treated.
allstar2010 wrote:
Plain of the Herbs wrote:But I don't agree we've the expertise within the county. And I think this is one of the reasons things continue to deteriorate. Hardly any of the Al-Ireland winners have good track records as coaches. Hardly any have an understanding of modern hurling. At the moment there are hardly any Offaly men managing .


Absolutely nail on head. Nearly 20years on since our last All Ireland win and I can't think of anyone of them that's actually made a go of it at managerial/coaching level. A few have done well spouting dung on the national media though!!
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby private joker » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:57 am

In regards to mgt. Offaly had a very good set up under Eamon Kelly
Sean Ryan said it was the most professionally set up he has ever been apart of. I recently spoke to another player who wished Kelly was back. Couldn't believe he was let go and is now a very disheartened, disillusioned player with offaly.
A observation made by a poster here in the manager stability thread stated that the first thing that happens when offaly get bet is their gym membership is cancelled. If that where offaly is at, he may do what Cavan did. Disband the senior team and focus solely on youth ( I'm not been serious here) but if the bare fundamentals are been denied to players then forget about it.
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Re: Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

Postby frankthetank » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:41 am

According to any member of the Offaly senior panel that I have spoken to, Eamon Kelly was held in the highest regard.

He introduced the hurlers to GPS tracking and had a very professional setup with him.

However the manner of his departure (regardless of who you believe), and where he subsequently resurfaced, still leaves a sour taste.
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