National Hurling League 2017

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.

Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby substandard » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:32 am

File under horseshite if you like, but something I've been thinking about and chatted about over pints now and again, albeit originally from an S/C perspective in football, but from following threads on hurling here, I think it could work for hurling too. If we take it that the problems with the current senior hurling team is that they are not in a position to contest with the biggest teams due to insufficient development through their underage intercounty experience. What can be done currently? Offaly teams are playing catch-up in terms of strength and conditioning tailored to play hurling at the top level. Combine the levels of physicality required with the speed and intensity required, and results like last Sunday show the deficit. What can be done? Perseverance, and stabilize- try to get enough improvement to possibly close the gap, but I think for now the focus should be on putting distance between themselves and the Laoises, Westmeaths, Kerrys and Carlows of the world. Comparing the current squad to Galway, Tipperary, Kilkenny is just masochistic at this stage. This generation of Offaly senior hurlers, it must be awful hard to motivate themselves to make the sacrifices necessary to play at this level knowing the odds are stacked so much against you, and knowing that results like last week are possible, and the backlash through social media and so on. Fine and well to be frustrated and disillusioned as a supporter, but kicking players when they are down is hardly going to help- not so much here, but on facebook and twitter, especially.
Anyway, what I was thinking was- and bear in mind, this idea was originally geared towards s/c training in football, so just bear with me and see if it would or could work in hurling terms. Group neighbouring clubs together, depending on size and numbers- say 3 or 4 teams. Bring all eligible players at u13 and u14 together a couple of times a week, and the same for u15 and u16. Clubs could pool together to cover the cost of qualified S/C coaches that would provide the level of programs provided at Development Squad levels. Hurling skills/ drills could be incorporated, and players grouped by standard across all within this region/group of clubs. A database of all players is developed, so that county-wide the progress/ drop-out rate is monitored. While this coaching is going on, all coaches/mentors are learning/ upskilling, and ideas are shared, common aims/objectives are established, and rather than a select few players getting development squad standard training, now when it comes to picking a development squad, players are ready to step up a level again. Parents can be brought on board by inviting them in for an information session on diet and fitness, and a well-being aspect can be incorporated in terms of mental health, all under the umbrella of creating a positive attitude towards Offaly hurling. Finance is the issue in so many dealings I have had with the county board: it doesn't seem to register that you need to invest, to speculate to accumulate, if you will. Until a team is successful or has a reasonable chance of success, the following will be dwindling, so the gate receipts will be down, so there will be less money to invest, and so the cycle continues. Reverse the cycle.
As I said, file it under horseshite if you like, but as I see it, if this was implemented in 5 regions, geographically, it would be money well spent by the clubs. Over time, I think this would reduce the amount spent by clubs at senior level, and help produce an overall better standard of club player, which would lead to an overall better standard of county players. These kind of academies, or call them whatever, could be run over a 5-7 week period pre or post season, and maybe correlated with schools. The most suitable/central venue in each region could be selected, or it could be rotated. The obvious difficulties would be getting that level of crossover/ cooperation between local rivals, and the big issue would be getting in suitable, qualified coaches. I'm sure there are many, or many that would be interested. Maybe an application or nomination process- in my head, it would work if properly backed and coordinated. It could be reviewed, would be measurable, and wouldn't cost the earth.
Like I said, file under horseshite if you like, but problems demand solutions, not sulking or feeling sorry for one's self, and solutions come from suggestions.
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby shamlads » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:36 am

substandard wrote:File under horseshite if you like, but something I've been thinking about and chatted about over pints now and again, albeit originally from an S/C perspective in football, but from following threads on hurling here, I think it could work for hurling too. If we take it that the problems with the current senior hurling team is that they are not in a position to contest with the biggest teams due to insufficient development through their underage intercounty experience. What can be done currently? Offaly teams are playing catch-up in terms of strength and conditioning tailored to play hurling at the top level. Combine the levels of physicality required with the speed and intensity required, and results like last Sunday show the deficit. What can be done? Perseverance, and stabilize- try to get enough improvement to possibly close the gap, but I think for now the focus should be on putting distance between themselves and the Laoises, Westmeaths, Kerrys and Carlows of the world. Comparing the current squad to Galway, Tipperary, Kilkenny is just masochistic at this stage. This generation of Offaly senior hurlers, it must be awful hard to motivate themselves to make the sacrifices necessary to play at this level knowing the odds are stacked so much against you, and knowing that results like last week are possible, and the backlash through social media and so on. Fine and well to be frustrated and disillusioned as a supporter, but kicking players when they are down is hardly going to help- not so much here, but on facebook and twitter, especially.
Anyway, what I was thinking was- and bear in mind, this idea was originally geared towards s/c training in football, so just bear with me and see if it would or could work in hurling terms. Group neighbouring clubs together, depending on size and numbers- say 3 or 4 teams. Bring all eligible players at u13 and u14 together a couple of times a week, and the same for u15 and u16. Clubs could pool together to cover the cost of qualified S/C coaches that would provide the level of programs provided at Development Squad levels. Hurling skills/ drills could be incorporated, and players grouped by standard across all within this region/group of clubs. A database of all players is developed, so that county-wide the progress/ drop-out rate is monitored. While this coaching is going on, all coaches/mentors are learning/ upskilling, and ideas are shared, common aims/objectives are established, and rather than a select few players getting development squad standard training, now when it comes to picking a development squad, players are ready to step up a level again. Parents can be brought on board by inviting them in for an information session on diet and fitness, and a well-being aspect can be incorporated in terms of mental health, all under the umbrella of creating a positive attitude towards Offaly hurling. Finance is the issue in so many dealings I have had with the county board: it doesn't seem to register that you need to invest, to speculate to accumulate, if you will. Until a team is successful or has a reasonable chance of success, the following will be dwindling, so the gate receipts will be down, so there will be less money to invest, and so the cycle continues. Reverse the cycle.
As I said, file it under horseshite if you like, but as I see it, if this was implemented in 5 regions, geographically, it would be money well spent by the clubs. Over time, I think this would reduce the amount spent by clubs at senior level, and help produce an overall better standard of club player, which would lead to an overall better standard of county players. These kind of academies, or call them whatever, could be run over a 5-7 week period pre or post season, and maybe correlated with schools. The most suitable/central venue in each region could be selected, or it could be rotated. The obvious difficulties would be getting that level of crossover/ cooperation between local rivals, and the big issue would be getting in suitable, qualified coaches. I'm sure there are many, or many that would be interested. Maybe an application or nomination process- in my head, it would work if properly backed and coordinated. It could be reviewed, would be measurable, and wouldn't cost the earth.
Like I said, file under horseshite if you like, but problems demand solutions, not sulking or feeling sorry for one's self, and solutions come from suggestions.


A decent proposal.but would the simple basics of that be followed through with in offaly under the present regime??not a bloody hope in hell.Offaly are going nowhere only down.and under the present regime will continue to plummet.at the moment it is quite possible that offaly wont win one match in league.very possible!!but then maybe just maybe something will be done about what is going on at the very top.
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby private joker » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:21 pm

100% proposal. Really would make a difference. Where it falls down is club and county board unable or willing to admit that work needs to be done and the total lack of people on the ground who could come together and work a plan like this.
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby jimbob17 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:54 pm

substandard wrote:File under horseshite if you like, but something I've been thinking about and chatted about over pints now and again, albeit originally from an S/C perspective in football, but from following threads on hurling here, I think it could work for hurling too. If we take it that the problems with the current senior hurling team is that they are not in a position to contest with the biggest teams due to insufficient development through their underage intercounty experience. What can be done currently? Offaly teams are playing catch-up in terms of strength and conditioning tailored to play hurling at the top level. Combine the levels of physicality required with the speed and intensity required, and results like last Sunday show the deficit. What can be done? Perseverance, and stabilize- try to get enough improvement to possibly close the gap, but I think for now the focus should be on putting distance between themselves and the Laoises, Westmeaths, Kerrys and Carlows of the world. Comparing the current squad to Galway, Tipperary, Kilkenny is just masochistic at this stage. This generation of Offaly senior hurlers, it must be awful hard to motivate themselves to make the sacrifices necessary to play at this level knowing the odds are stacked so much against you, and knowing that results like last week are possible, and the backlash through social media and so on. Fine and well to be frustrated and disillusioned as a supporter, but kicking players when they are down is hardly going to help- not so much here, but on facebook and twitter, especially.
Anyway, what I was thinking was- and bear in mind, this idea was originally geared towards s/c training in football, so just bear with me and see if it would or could work in hurling terms. Group neighbouring clubs together, depending on size and numbers- say 3 or 4 teams. Bring all eligible players at u13 and u14 together a couple of times a week, and the same for u15 and u16. Clubs could pool together to cover the cost of qualified S/C coaches that would provide the level of programs provided at Development Squad levels. Hurling skills/ drills could be incorporated, and players grouped by standard across all within this region/group of clubs. A database of all players is developed, so that county-wide the progress/ drop-out rate is monitored. While this coaching is going on, all coaches/mentors are learning/ upskilling, and ideas are shared, common aims/objectives are established, and rather than a select few players getting development squad standard training, now when it comes to picking a development squad, players are ready to step up a level again. Parents can be brought on board by inviting them in for an information session on diet and fitness, and a well-being aspect can be incorporated in terms of mental health, all under the umbrella of creating a positive attitude towards Offaly hurling. Finance is the issue in so many dealings I have had with the county board: it doesn't seem to register that you need to invest, to speculate to accumulate, if you will. Until a team is successful or has a reasonable chance of success, the following will be dwindling, so the gate receipts will be down, so there will be less money to invest, and so the cycle continues. Reverse the cycle.
As I said, file it under horseshite if you like, but as I see it, if this was implemented in 5 regions, geographically, it would be money well spent by the clubs. Over time, I think this would reduce the amount spent by clubs at senior level, and help produce an overall better standard of club player, which would lead to an overall better standard of county players. These kind of academies, or call them whatever, could be run over a 5-7 week period pre or post season, and maybe correlated with schools. The most suitable/central venue in each region could be selected, or it could be rotated. The obvious difficulties would be getting that level of crossover/ cooperation between local rivals, and the big issue would be getting in suitable, qualified coaches. I'm sure there are many, or many that would be interested. Maybe an application or nomination process- in my head, it would work if properly backed and coordinated. It could be reviewed, would be measurable, and wouldn't cost the earth.
Like I said, file under horseshite if you like, but problems demand solutions, not sulking or feeling sorry for one's self, and solutions come from suggestions.


I believe efforts from hurling development plan in conjunction with coaching and games committee are proposing some thing like this being put in motion through schools. It's a no brainer for me though only way it will work is if team management's of Dev squads are somehow involved where players MUST attend to keep place on county squad. Lots of good ideas. Like you said, can and will it be financed and executed properly. I have my doubts.
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby sam88885a » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:50 pm

Plain of the Herbs wrote:This is the thing - it is going to take a generation from the time a plan is implemented for the benefits to be seen at Senior level. The damage has been done and too many teenagers have a deficit of skills.

I was interested to hear Brian Carroll's interview with Will O'Callaghan on the radio. The hurling pathway proposes better education for development squad coaches and for club coaches. It had identified deficiencies in the way very young children are being coached, and proposes the provision of education to club coaches in this regard.

It will, naturally, take a generation or more for those young players to reach adulthood. but the damage has been done, the rest of the hurling world have moved on, and young Offaly hurlers are no use to an inter-varsity squad. Hopefully the hurling Pathway can be delivered upon. There is no other way.
private joker wrote:When the foundation of a house is all wrong you don't worry about the roof. Get the club and under age in order and then worry about Senior. Without underage success you will not have senior success. A big name manager can only do so much. The talent has to be there to work with. Look at the last two results in the leinster club championship. Both coolderry and Rynaghs were destroyed once out of offaly.


I agree the hurling pathway needs to be developed in every club and school .It wont be easy because unlike year ago there are schools that do not or will not allow hurling for fear of injuries . If clubs dont get into schools to develop skills at u 8 its too late in my opinion.
To me that is the big change in offaly hurling ,school principles can foster a love for hurling in young kids .
Clodagh gaels rise reflects D White love of hurling .In my opinion that is where this hurling pathway needs to focus on firstly .

I think picking out the last 2 results in the leinster club championship are an example of offaly fall is rubbish .Coolderry were an old team who fell over the line that year and St rynagh were still celebrating the end of their famine .
In 2012 KK were first time champions went on to win leinster and should have won that all Ireland and but for an injury to their full back would have beaten Ballyhale in the 2014 leinster final ,who went on to win the semi final and final easily . In 2012 to 2014 kk were one of the top clubs in the country .
KK Collapse in form since then was been incredible but all those hurlers are still there and to me their 1 club that really put in the work at underage .

The hurling pathway is welcome but its only a start and there is little point of sowing a crop if u dont bother to harvest it when it ripe .
Thats what has been happening, loosing guys at their prime ,i didnt hear B Carroll refer to why that is be allow to happen or what measures are been put in place to try and retain lads.
Retaining players into the late 20s is more important that ever now in my opinion as our underage lads need time to catch up in strenght and fitness .
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby italia90 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:28 am

substandard wrote:File under horseshite if you like, but something I've been thinking about and chatted about over pints now and again, albeit originally from an S/C perspective in football, but from following threads on hurling here, I think it could work for hurling too. If we take it that the problems with the current senior hurling team is that they are not in a position to contest with the biggest teams due to insufficient development through their underage intercounty experience. What can be done currently? Offaly teams are playing catch-up in terms of strength and conditioning tailored to play hurling at the top level. Combine the levels of physicality required with the speed and intensity required, and results like last Sunday show the deficit. What can be done? Perseverance, and stabilize- try to get enough improvement to possibly close the gap, but I think for now the focus should be on putting distance between themselves and the Laoises, Westmeaths, Kerrys and Carlows of the world. Comparing the current squad to Galway, Tipperary, Kilkenny is just masochistic at this stage. This generation of Offaly senior hurlers, it must be awful hard to motivate themselves to make the sacrifices necessary to play at this level knowing the odds are stacked so much against you, and knowing that results like last week are possible, and the backlash through social media and so on. Fine and well to be frustrated and disillusioned as a supporter, but kicking players when they are down is hardly going to help- not so much here, but on facebook and twitter, especially.
Anyway, what I was thinking was- and bear in mind, this idea was originally geared towards s/c training in football, so just bear with me and see if it would or could work in hurling terms. Group neighbouring clubs together, depending on size and numbers- say 3 or 4 teams. Bring all eligible players at u13 and u14 together a couple of times a week, and the same for u15 and u16. Clubs could pool together to cover the cost of qualified S/C coaches that would provide the level of programs provided at Development Squad levels. Hurling skills/ drills could be incorporated, and players grouped by standard across all within this region/group of clubs. A database of all players is developed, so that county-wide the progress/ drop-out rate is monitored. While this coaching is going on, all coaches/mentors are learning/ upskilling, and ideas are shared, common aims/objectives are established, and rather than a select few players getting development squad standard training, now when it comes to picking a development squad, players are ready to step up a level again. Parents can be brought on board by inviting them in for an information session on diet and fitness, and a well-being aspect can be incorporated in terms of mental health, all under the umbrella of creating a positive attitude towards Offaly hurling. Finance is the issue in so many dealings I have had with the county board: it doesn't seem to register that you need to invest, to speculate to accumulate, if you will. Until a team is successful or has a reasonable chance of success, the following will be dwindling, so the gate receipts will be down, so there will be less money to invest, and so the cycle continues. Reverse the cycle.
As I said, file it under horseshite if you like, but as I see it, if this was implemented in 5 regions, geographically, it would be money well spent by the clubs. Over time, I think this would reduce the amount spent by clubs at senior level, and help produce an overall better standard of club player, which would lead to an overall better standard of county players. These kind of academies, or call them whatever, could be run over a 5-7 week period pre or post season, and maybe correlated with schools. The most suitable/central venue in each region could be selected, or it could be rotated. The obvious difficulties would be getting that level of crossover/ cooperation between local rivals, and the big issue would be getting in suitable, qualified coaches. I'm sure there are many, or many that would be interested. Maybe an application or nomination process- in my head, it would work if properly backed and coordinated. It could be reviewed, would be measurable, and wouldn't cost the earth.
Like I said, file under horseshite if you like, but problems demand solutions, not sulking or feeling sorry for one's self, and solutions come from suggestions.

We have a job on our hands at minute to stay with laois and westmeath rather than put distance between us
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby sam88885a » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:39 pm

Just saw the laois team for saturday ,Its simular to the team we beat easily last june ,i think the have 10 or 11 starting that play that day.
Whereas i think we had only 6 of the team that beat laois that day started last sunday .
How could we expect to develop with so many changes each year????
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:15 pm

I'd safely say that everyone in Kilcormac and Killoughey knows the reason they lost to Ballyhale that day was because five of their six forwards completely malfunctioned, they missed a heap of scoreable frees while the management looked on bewildered and didn't make the most obvious change which was to change the freetaker when there were alternatives. Losing Ger Healion (an injury which was sustained in stoppage time at the end of normal time) wasn't the reason. If it was, they'd have won it in 60 minutes.
sam88885a wrote: In 2012 KK were first time champions went on to win leinster and should have won that all Ireland and but for an injury to their full back would have beaten Ballyhale in the 2014 leinster final ,who went on to win the semi final and final easily . In 2012 to 2014 kk were one of the top clubs in the country .
KK Collapse in form since then was been incredible but all those hurlers are still there and to me their 1 club that really put in the work at underage .
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby greenairfield » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:35 pm

It's in the past it doesn't really matter anyway.
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:34 pm

You're dead right, green. Thing is, dopes come on here making up all kings of nonsense and if it goes uncontested, the lunatics will be running this asylum.
But it has nothing to do with the title of the thread, which I why I started the new thread on Saturday's league match.
greenairfield wrote:It's in the past it doesn't really matter anyway.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby sam88885a » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:01 pm

Plain of the Herbs wrote:I'd safely say that everyone in Kilcormac and Killoughey knows the reason they lost to Ballyhale that day was because five of their six forwards completely malfunctioned, they missed a heap of scoreable frees while the management looked on bewildered and didn't make the most obvious change which was to change the freetaker when there were alternatives. Losing Ger Healion (an injury which was sustained in stoppage time at the end of normal time) wasn't the reason. If it was, they'd have won it in 60 minutes.
sam88885a wrote: In 2012 KK were first time champions went on to win leinster and should have won that all Ireland and but for an injury to their full back would have beaten Ballyhale in the 2014 leinster final ,who went on to win the semi final and final easily . In 2012 to 2014 kk were one of the top clubs in the country .
KK Collapse in form since then was been incredible but all those hurlers are still there and to me their 1 club that really put in the work at underage .


Poth The point is Ballhale had all the stars H Shefflin TJ Reid C fennelly M Fennelly J Holden and R Reid, KK could and should have beaten them.


Yes we need to improve skills fitness strength but offaly guys dont have the guts to battle anymore apart from S Ryan .
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:45 pm

That wasn't the point you made last night, and you know it.

And Offaly guys don't have the guts? You make yourself quite clear with that point. Very brave from an anonymous keyboard warrior somewhere in a warm sitting room, computer on the lap, mug of warm cocoa in your hand. Meanwhile the fellas you describe as not having guts are training a number of nights a week in the wind, rain and whatever.

You want to take a look at yourself. Perhaps going to matches ins't for you. Perhaps contributing to a supporters' discussion forum isn't for you either. The likes of you make me sick.
sam88885a wrote:Poth The point is Ballhale had all the stars H Shefflin TJ Reid C fennelly M Fennelly J Holden and R Reid, KK could and should have beaten them.

Yes we need to improve skills fitness strength but offaly guys dont have the guts to battle anymore apart from S Ryan .
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby fifitrixiebelle » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:41 am

if there are lads in offaly who tink joey holden is a 'star' then its time to concentrate on rounders
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby sam88885a » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:19 pm

Plain of the Herbs wrote:That wasn't the point you made last night, and you know it.

And Offaly guys don't have the guts? You make yourself quite clear with that point. Very brave from an anonymous keyboard warrior somewhere in a warm sitting room, computer on the lap, mug of warm cocoa in your hand. Meanwhile the fellas you describe as not having guts are training a number of nights a week in the wind, rain and whatever.

You want to take a look at yourself. Perhaps going to matches ins't for you. Perhaps contributing to a supporters' discussion forum isn't for you either. The likes of you make me sick.

Poth u need help if i make u sick by expressing an opinion by the way i hate warm cocoa and i love going to games even outside Offaly .
Leave down your warm cocoa or ull spill it on your labtop and then ull be even more angry with the big bad world .
Take care now poth
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Re: National Hurling League 2017

Postby Toxicity234 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:06 am

Plain of the herbs go home your drunk... but it ok we are well use to you talking complete shit.

The lads did ok tonight against a poor enough Laois. the senting off both stupid but if it was Kilkenny or Tipp players you get away with it.
Then we lost them we, like last year when we lost a player, we forgot the game plan and just played and that what we need to do.
Shane Dooley was very poor in open play won nothing he need to move back inside.

I once again point out when it come to hurling we better than Laois but they have more of there better players playing in the correct positions,
Shortt at centre back put in come great hits. Love it. Midflield were ok but defensively could be better, They let the runners go to much but that me been way too tough.
Half forward line is really missing. we need Kinsella, Egan and i would love to Mahon but P Murphy has to move in there as well. Peter Greargty is still a year away from be ready for a full game at this level but in 40 mins he can do a lot of damage.

Ryan could get this right yet, Derek Morkan back is excellent news but we need to add a older full back. Murphy or Coughlan, Doughan is still to young for a centre position but give that man time he is going to be outstanding.
Shortt at centre back is excellent stopper.
Oisin Mahon again like Greargty isn't ready for full games at this level but 20 mins he could finish off tired backs. Oisin should be in a centre position just yet.

Yeah. A really bad night but one not without hope.
“Common sense is not so common.”
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