Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July 2nd

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby first_touch » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:34 pm

Shocking performance today. Why in the name of God was Joe Bergin not played at the edge of the square when Offaly had the wind in the first half? Surely the gameplan should have been to feed the full forward line as much as possible and have our dangermen Bergin and Dooley in there. Instead what we saw were potshots from way out the field, nearly all of which went wide. Management have to take a lot of responsibility for today's poor performance. It's a sad day when we made Wexford look a decent team.
first_touch
County player
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:26 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby jimbob17 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:20 am

Thought we were getting carried away with talk of winning this game. Being realistic, we caught them on hop in the league. Its not long ago since we struggled to beat Carlow and were hammered by Westmeath.

Watched game on TV. I think our skill levels were good bit off Wexford today - more often than not from the weaker players when under pressure. We struggled at times to pick up the ball and control it on the hurley and some of our striking was poor. Yea the commentary mentioned it unusual that at least one of Dooley or Bergin was not at 14 in first half. To me that was a big error. We needed goals to win that game and needed at least a 5 point lead at half time with the breeze. The early subs were not surprising but thought Connolly could have been left on longer. I'd have thrown him out around the middle and put Bergin at 14. Easy be wise in hindsight but to me that was a no brainer. We were very intent in running the ball and handpassing into trouble as we ran up blind alleys today. It was easy defend against as it all choked up around 45 yards from Wx goal. We got well beaten today - what we deserved really though a lot of lads tried hard. Sean Ryan was very good in first half. Thought Chris McDonnell was doing Ok given the task at hand and putting Niall Wynne in full back if that is what happened was strange. Maybe O Toole did that role and Conor McDonald moved to corner I dont know. Bringing on young Kelly after he only joined panel last Monday is another big F off statement to other panelists training all year.

As for management, I think they should stay on but there are a few players they need to get back in there. In fairness they have Kiely and Emmet Nolan back (even if it was later in year) but there are 5-6 lads from KK they need back in panel. Currams, Mahon and Kilmartin are all good enough to start while Brian Leonard and one or two more need to be given a fair crack in my opinion. We have a situation where lads seeing action on the senior team cant make the U21 team while some of the best hurlers in the county are not in there. Steven Quirke from Banagher should be in there too. How Sean Gardiner was ignored for so long is also beyond me. That is not a good reflection on the senior management even if they were doing their best with lads available. I still think they should be kept on but maybe need to shuffle around with some new selectors or fresh approach. It'd be a wise move to get Danny Owens on board as a selector as he might sway the KK lads to make themselves available. Once Kelly knows the lie of the land, it will be easier for him - having the right group of locals around him would help that!
jimbob
jimbob17
All Star
 
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 am

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby manfromdelmonte » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:45 am

Owens has been asked to stay on by Westmeath county board.
Not sure if the clubs up there want him again though.
only the best...
manfromdelmonte
All Star
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:21 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Sharp Eye » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:16 am

I did not think it was possible for Offaly to perform at a lower level in 2016 than Offaly did in 2015, but they did. Laois are much weaker this year as the result of the Laois Clare game proved. Westmeath defeated Offaly by 14 points in the Championship.

A new management team (with no family relationship to players) must be put in place. The new management team must be headed up by a member of the Offaly Co Board. Liam Sheedy with his appointment of a former colleague of his as manager, proved that "Who you know" and not "What you know" can still exist. The Co Board must put the new management in place and will then be in as position to monitor the performance or lack of performance of the new management team.

Any manager who states publicly that the "Best Hurlers in Offaly" were not playing on his team is admitting failure as a people manager.
Sharp Eye
All Star
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:22 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Toxicity234 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:34 pm

Ok lads.

Lets take the good. Our U21 Team went up against Wexford Senior and came with in 8 points of them.
How good must be our senior team be.

Lads I don't have a problem losing when we leave everything on the field and were set up well.
But Yesterday. Mcdonald at full back. I feel for the lad, He a good Corner back But how his father can sit and watch him getting hammered everyday at full back is crazy.
Gardiner Isn't a centre back but he a super hurler.
Bergin isn't a midfielder.
Dooley isn't a half foward.
Mulrooney should be a golfer not a hurler. I have no problem with a game pass so one by as long there trying there best but James yesterday was completely dis-interested.
Felt for Sean Cleary. Been on the panel for years (came into the panel way too young) he works his socks off but is always 1st off. Deserves better, Honest lad.

our senior year is over. our manager has had a cut at the lads outside the panel.
Which is normal for Offaly managers to do. These mangers are not willing to manage them only using them for an excuse.
Kelly as i said over the last few week has seen the light but he not stupid. He knows the damage is done.
Complaining about commitment when your team has 5 of the players that played only trained since Feb.
Dropping defenders that have trained since november from the team to play forward in there position.
Dropping Players that have Trained since November for lads that have done 2 weeks of training.
Bring back in subs that have been taking off instead of bring on players that have given full commitment.

Kelly comment is a cheap insult. Kelly mishandled players.
Kelly throws the word commitment around like only the players have to be loyal to him. While he treat the players anyway he likes.
These managers need to look up the word Commitment as learn that it work BOTH ways.

A sad end to a bad year.
“Common sense is not so common.”
Toxicity234
All Star
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:26 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Bord na Mona man » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:02 pm

I'm not so sure that dropping balls into the square is necessarily the winning tactic with the wind. If Bergin was deployed there as people suggested, he isn't a proven ball winner to start with.

The wind is going to carry balls too far and some will them will roll wide or into the goalie. After that, the full back like will win their share of them. Even with the deliveries won by Offaly, there is always the prospect of the the defence repelling the attack. If you are determined to get goals, there is also the possibility of making a hero of the keeper instead of scoring any.

If you can manage any sort of decent accuracy, then I'd still say taking long shots is a decent ploy to start with. In a strong breeze, you only need to win possession half way up the field and you are in scoring territory. You can vary it and then deliver it in, if you think the opposition defence is getting drawn out to defend against the long range shots.
User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Sharp Eye » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:56 pm

Bord na Mona man wrote:I'm not so sure that dropping balls into the square is necessarily the winning tactic with the wind. If Bergin was deployed there as people suggested, he isn't a proven ball winner to start with.

The wind is going to carry balls too far and some will them will roll wide or into the goalie. After that, the full back like will win their share of them. Even with the deliveries won by Offaly, there is always the prospect of the the defence repelling the attack. If you are determined to get goals, there is also the possibility of making a hero of the keeper instead of scoring any.

If you can manage any sort of decent accuracy, then I'd still say taking long shots is a decent ploy to start with. In a strong breeze, you only need to win possession half way up the field and you are in scoring territory. You can vary it and then deliver it in, if you think the opposition defence is getting drawn out to defend against the long range shots.


Dublin would have defeated Cork, if Cork had not stopped shooting wides from long range. Cork changed their tactics and played good ball into a scoring corner forward, Alan Cadogan and as a result they are still in the championship. No point having a full forward line if you don't use them. Goals win matches. When Offaly had the wind Joe Bergin & Shane Dooley should have been in the full forward line. A great start was wasted by poor tactics & Wexford who were hurling poorly, were let back into the game and were in full control by half time.
Sharp Eye
All Star
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:22 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby first_touch » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:43 pm

Agree totally Sharp Eye. Joe Bergin has been in fine goal-scoring form at full-forward. It defies logic that he was played out the field against Wexford. It would not be a matter of lumping ball in on top of him every time but without him as a target in there it was no wonder that guys were shooting for points from crazy positions out the field. If it was a game plan to shoot on sight it's even more worrying. Also, why was Dooley not deployed at corner forward and diagonal ball played into him (and to Connolly in the other corner)?

It's not good enough for Kelly to state that the performance of the team was very disappointing. If you don't set up with an intelligent game plan then don't be surprised when your team doesn't perform.
first_touch
County player
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:26 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Bord na Mona man » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:10 pm

You have an inside forward line of players who don't win primary possession - needing to receive accurate balls in, or pick up loose play.
Then I don't see how much use is being made of wind advantage by trying to play accurately, low, diagonal etc.
In what most people would describe as an 8 point wind, you're more or less suggesting a neutral weather game plan. On top of that, a sweeper would be able to disrupt it too once your plan has been twigged.

I think you simply have to have a proper ball winner up there to cause real problems.
User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:18 am

With the target of advancing from the round robin, beating Leix and leaving the round robin behind for next year, Offaly’s job for 2016 was done prior to last Saturday. Have Offaly improved? We need to recall the despair of this time last year. Offaly hurling isn’t going anywhere anyway, but maybe the slide has been arrested. For the short term, at least.

The usual deficiencies were clearly evident again. I can’t remember and Offaly hurler making an aerial fetch in the entire game. And Wexford found so much space in so many sectors of the field.

As for Kelly’s comments – someone is going to have to identify this long list of Offaly hurlers whose presence would make Kelly’s like so much easier. Because there are not eight or ten hurlers out there who, if they were committing, would see Offaly better than Wexford (for example).

Kelly’s comments strike me as a ‘poor me’ call to potential future managerial posts. Picture the interview scene –
Club chairman somewhere in Tipperary: You did very badly with Offaly, you hardly won a game and you lost to Westmeath. What happened there?
Kelly: Yea, but the ten best hurlers in Offaly wouldn’t commit and I was left with a half a team and they’re fairly backward up there anyway.
Club chairman: Yea, I know. You’re hired.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
Plain of the Herbs
All Star
 
Posts: 2791
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:47 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Toxicity234 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:06 am

https://soundcloud.com/midlandssport/jo ... g-campaign

Listen to this back. It's easy to see what Offaly hurling in under pressure.
John is Games Development Officer.
He complains about Kelly insulting the 30 players that committed to the Offaly cause all year.
Well With the way the manager was, it’s only being 16 players that have been there since November. The rest the manager had insulted early in the year and they left. Some had returned.

He then goes on to state that about KK players not having anything to offer at inter county level.
Talk about insulting Players. Aw John have a Look in the Mirror. You’re a KK Man. If you made that comment about Rynagh they fucking kill you. to think you could say that about your own club. Really John.
The players he picks out are younger than Jo Jo Farrell and John writing them off.
Imaging if i said that Lumagh players had nothing to Offer at intercounty level. fuck hell.

He them talk about the going with committed players ahead of skilful one. Aw jesus. Stupid idea like this is the reason i'm sitting in an office with lads slaging me off that i can't pick a note pad off the floor and who i'm i am offaly full back.
He them talks about Kelly Commitment to the job. Yeah Kelly retired. The Players work and don't have family to put through school. It's meant to be life and hurling. If Kelly wants to go down(or send one of his coaches) to do training with lads in closer to home. Lets his coaches do the travelling for a change.
I work with Kilkenny hurler, He not asked to go to CIT to training 4 night a week. If he working late, He working late. Cody wants him on the field playing hurling not worrying if he can afford the rent this week. Cody rings him the evening of training to asks him if he can make and if he said no sorry I'm in the office and I'm doing a gym after, there no issue with Cody. Cody only wants him there at least one night midweek training and more if he can make it.

He talks about the improvement in the Offaly team set up, i agree but last year we didn't have a clue, last year we we're a mess. We talk about have a young team but he doesn't see the with the training commitment required for this management only students or lads with a boss that love the game or teachers will be able to train.

We'll forever have a young team. If we look at Kilkenny. They have forever a middle age team.
Which is working out better for the county's.
Kilkenny don't commit 6 night's a week, that commitment is stupid to ask. We need the lads in the mid or late 20's to be the back bone of the team. At this rate of going, Nolan, O Kelly , Doughan and Rigeny will all be finished hurling intercounty at 25 cause they be it will hurling or life. They have to live.
Talking up a manager for making young lads drive from limerick, Galway and other places to training 4 to 6 night a week is madness. The lads must be wrecked. I fear for them getting into a car to drive back late on wet night.

The attitude in Offaly is training like dogs, Get treated like bad dogs. If you bark you get shot like a dog and them the Development officer tells everyone you’re were an old dog anyhow and you don’t matter.

The problem now is Kelly will call in Every U21 in Offaly and destroy them. There physical not really to go up against 26 to 28 years old. We seen Conor Doughan and Kiely both get bad shoulder injury this year. There still too young to be taking major hit on a day basic. No amount of gym work will make you 26. you have to wait and grow at your body own rate. Not to force it.
“Common sense is not so common.”
Toxicity234
All Star
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:26 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Bord na Mona man » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:34 am

Toxicity234 wrote:He them talk about the going with committed players ahead of skilful one. Aw jesus. Stupid idea...

Why bother with Winter and Spring training at all so?
Just decide who the most skillful players in the county are and have them show up in May - bellies, arses and the works!
We'd save a fortune on expenses as well.
User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Toxicity234 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:17 pm

Bord na Mona man wrote:
Toxicity234 wrote:He them talk about the going with committed players ahead of skilful one. Aw jesus. Stupid idea...

Why bother with Winter and Spring training at all so?
Just decide who the most skillful players in the county are and have them show up in May - bellies, arses and the works!
We'd save a fortune on expenses as well.


That not what I'm saying. Having over half the Players playing your last championship match not having done the winter training anyway.
Was King FAT? Was Nolan fat? Was Kiely Fat? Was Connolly fat? was O Kelly fat? Was P Rigney fat? is O’Toole-Greene Fat.

It become a question of why should a player go winter training anyway. Just wait until the other commented players to leave and just wait for another Phone call in March.
Is it better to have lads that have done as much training as possible for 6 months or dropping them for not training and them call them in spring cause your short.
Well done to the lads that training all winter, Great for them. Do they deserve to be left sitting on the side line which players that have start training in spring. Are they not sitting there going why did I bother??
The question isn't do you want Fat players and question is do want the player that give you the best chance to get a performance out of.
What the point in development hurler and them leaving them sitting at home for lesser hurlers cause half of them turned up to training for 6 months and other came into the panel a month before the game after answer a phone call.
“Common sense is not so common.”
Toxicity234
All Star
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:26 pm

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Bord na Mona man » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:33 pm

Toxicity234 wrote:
Bord na Mona man wrote:
Toxicity234 wrote:He them talk about the going with committed players ahead of skilful one. Aw jesus. Stupid idea...

Why bother with Winter and Spring training at all so?
Just decide who the most skillful players in the county are and have them show up in May - bellies, arses and the works!
We'd save a fortune on expenses as well.


That not what I'm saying. Having over half the Players playing your last championship match not having done the winter training anyway.
Was King FAT? Was Nolan fat? Was Kiely Fat? Was Connolly fat? was O Kelly fat? Was P Rigney fat? is O’Toole-Greene Fat.

It become a question of why should a player go winter training anyway. Just wait until the other commented players to leave and just wait for another Phone call in March.
Is it better to have lads that have done as much training as possible for 6 months or dropping them for not training and them call them in spring cause your short.
Well done to the lads that training all winter, Great for them. Do they deserve to be left sitting on the side line which players that have start training in spring. Are they not sitting there going why did I bother??
The question isn't do you want Fat players and question is do want the player that give you the best chance to get a performance out of.
What the point in development hurler and them leaving them sitting at home for lesser hurlers cause half of them turned up to training for 6 months and other came into the panel a month before the game after answer a phone call.

I've read it a few times and I'm not sure what you're looking for here?
a) The panel to be set in stone in November and no one brought in?
b) The panel to be flexible where fellas can opt in an out at various stages and not be penalised for doing so come championship?
User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am

Re: Offaly vs Wexford 2016 Hurling Qualifier - Saturday July

Postby Bord na Mona man » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:10 pm

Plain of the Herbs wrote:As for Kelly’s comments – someone is going to have to identify this long list of Offaly hurlers whose presence would make Kelly’s like so much easier. Because there are not eight or ten hurlers out there who, if they were committing, would see Offaly better than Wexford (for example).

That's what I'm wondering? Is there an 8 out of 10 hurler not involved who could replace a 6 out of 10 hurler who is a starter?
I think 'e kelly' is buying into some of this barstool guff more than he should.

I'll give him a pass to a certain extent for this reason; most of us have actually seen several of the exiles line out for Offaly in previous years, which Eamonn Kelly wouldn't have. Had he the benefit of this, he would have come to the same conclusions as us e.g. Most of the supposed stars are about the same standard as what's already there. The differences are marginal at best.

So in his second year in charge, are we to expect him to open the door to all comers and give them a free pass to set their own level of preparations?
User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am

PreviousNext

Return to Offaly GAA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 19 guests