Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

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Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Thu May 05, 2016 10:11 pm

I don’t know anything about Carlow, so there won’t be a ‘verdict’ piece at the bottom of this piece.

Last chance for Offaly to save their season. And even then, a win for Kerry over Westmeath (played at the same time in Tralee) would leave Offaly in a very precarious position. If that was the case, Offaly would need to run up a big winning margin against Carlow.

Writing in the Offaly Independent last week, Kevin Egan expressed concern at Offaly hurling’s carefree attitude to league fixtures. That manifested itself in Mullingar as Offaly travelled to play a league match with the hosts geared up for championship’s opener. They brought a knife to a gunfight. This thing of Offaly needing to be underdogs, needing to be written off, has to be removed from the psyche. Anyway, it will be a while before Offaly will be underdogs again.

3pm on a Saturday is the ‘graveyard shift’ as regards championship hurling. Very few locals will attend – you have to earn support, people aren’t stupid, and Saturday is a working day for many.

Carlow lost to Westmeath and Laois by a combined total of five points last year. They are no mugs. Read the Séamus Murphy piece on the Leinster Council’s website.

Offaly’s lineout in Mullingar, with four half-backs, two half-forwards and three full-forwards was a surprise. All the moreso given they were assisted by the wind. They were quickly forced to revert to an orthodox formation. However. With Westmeath always going to pull Offaly defenders all over the place, it gave the security of an extra defender. And three up front gave the outlet to give it long. But out on the field, the auxiliary defender played too far forward (note Waterford’s sweeper hurls as an auxiliary full-back) and only Kevin Connolly had to deal with a dropping delivery. Like, how difficult is it to go down the flanks when you know there is a spare centre half-back (because it’s your gameplan that has been rehearsed)?

Some would see Offaly’s need to deploy a sweeper against Westmeath as the lowest point of the day. But maybe that reflects Offaly’s status in the game. With underage coaching the way it is, Offaly are completely unable to think their way around the pitch. Offaly can’t play a formation other than an orthodox 3-3-2-3-3, and can’t play as a team. Did Offaly make a single hand pass last Sunday? I don’t think they did. Éamonn Kelly will have learned alot about his charges last Sunday. He presumably will have harboured ambitions of managing his native county one day and is currently watching the chances of realising those ambitions go down the drain.

Shane Dooley – not selecting him merely cost Offaly a few dozen extra supporters who would have decided not to travel as a result. Springing him didn’t faze Aaron Craig, or anyone else from Westmeath, for that matter, and if he aggravated a hamstring injury he will be a severe doubt for Saturday.

Joseph Bergin – it’s all very well standing behind someone like Damien Joyce (who was poor under a dropping ball anyway), but you need to do more than that in order to win the ball against Tommy Doyle or Tommy Gallagher. If Shane is unavailable, Cillian Kiely should take the frees.

Communication - the contrast between Westmeath and Offaly in terms of shouting, communication with each other, was stark. Fifteen individuals had no hope against a team.

Offaly may well bring their championship game Saturday, in which case we will be entitled to ask the question – what the bloody Hell were they at in Mullingar. Still, morale can only be on the floor and it will be difficult to do anything about that in six days.

I think it needs the players to step up now. I know only Bergin, Dooley, Dempsey and Egan have made more than 30 appearances, but in that situation, others step up and make themselves heard. Leadership rolls along. It’s over to the hurlers themselves now – they downed tools after Westmeath’s first goal and couldn’t show less pride in their jersey. The weakest, most anaemic Offaly display in living memory.

They have a chance to set that right now.

Backlash!
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby sam88885a » Thu May 05, 2016 11:49 pm

Good post plain of the herbs
i agree offaly players dont seem to talk on the pitch .
it reminded of a problem d owens sorted out when he took over kk . he said they were always looking to the line for instruction . he refused to instruct them and insisted that g healion and p healion managed the defence and c mahon and c slevin managed the forward .
all good teams need on feild leaders j demsey needs to manage the full back line , he has the best view on the pitch of any holes .
offaly are very inexperence this year and i think we need one of our most experence guy at centre back to manage the team on the field . C Egan is capt but he must bark out the orders to the other defenders and midfielders . both demsey and egan are quite on the field but that needs to change .
j bergin seems to be windy when put up against a big man and resorts to trying to hurl for behind .
sunday we need everyone out in front of their men.
carlow wont be simple and like westmeath a win over offaly would be a huge step forward for them , so this is there all ireland final.
we need to tear into them for the start and not let them settle .
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby suckindiesel » Fri May 06, 2016 1:22 am

I expect Kerry to defeat Westmeath, so in the event of Kerry/Offaly/Westmeath all finishing on 4 points (if offaly beat Carlow and Kerry), are we to assume that the first two places will be decided upon by scoring difference?....if so, by my calculations, unless offaly beat Carlow by ten points or more then they may be goosed and potentially marooned in 3rd place. that heavy defeat last sunday could be very very costly.
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Fri May 06, 2016 3:41 am

To answer the question - yes, if three teams are tied, scoring difference is used. And Kerry may well beat Westmeath.
suckindiesel wrote:I expect Kerry to defeat Westmeath, so in the event of Kerry/Offaly/Westmeath all finishing on 4 points (if offaly beat Carlow and Kerry), are we to assume that the first two places will be decided upon by scoring difference?....if so, by my calculations, unless offaly beat Carlow by ten points or more then they may be goosed and potentially marooned in 3rd place. that heavy defeat last sunday could be very very costly.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby Bord na Mona man » Fri May 06, 2016 9:52 am

Team named:
1 James Dempsey
2 Paddy Rigney
3 Dermot Shortt
4 Chris McDonald
5 Dermot Mooney
6 Colin Egan
7 David King
8 Pat Camon
9 Sean Cleary
10 Shane Kinsella
11 Joe Bergin
12 Cillian Kiely
13 Paddy Murphy
14 Shane Dooley
15 Kevin Connolly
Subs
16 Oisin Mahon
17 James Mulrooney
18 Dan Kelleher
19 Ben Conneely
20 Jason Sampson
21 Gerry Spollen
22 Padraig Guinan
23 Niall Wynne
24 Sean Gardiner
25 Liam Langton
26 Adrian Cleary

http://offaly.gaa.ie/2016/05/06/lshc-offaly-v-carlow/
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby Bord na Mona man » Fri May 06, 2016 10:11 am

Assuming that's the starting XV (position juggling aside) it should probably tighten things up compared to last week.
6 days is probably an ideal turnaround time. It gives management less time to overthink tactics and selections.
Thinking back on recent years and Offaly have tried various stunts in the championship that have failed - sweepers, 3rd midfielders, short puckouts etc. Very often the reason they failed is because they weren't properly road tested in the build up.
What seems to happen is that management get jittery after a weak league campaign and get riskier in trying to pull tactical rabbits from hats on the day. There's always some poor unfortunate 'square peg in round hole' player who gets hooked before half time and epitomises the tactical misadventure that everyone has just witnessed.

Offaly should just go back to basics and outwork Carlow in the individual battles, the rucks, the mauls, the breakdown, the scrums, the line outs. Get quicker ball and keep the line speed up and we'll win it by a few points.
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby sam88885a » Fri May 06, 2016 10:19 am

that looks much better , sure id expect a few switches but to me that as near to full strength from avable players .
i feel that the managment have gone back to basics and we should get a preformance and the result we need .
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby frankthetank » Fri May 06, 2016 11:45 am

Rumour has it that two of the starting team named for Saturday have dropped themselves off the panel along with another player who was a sub last week. If that is the case it says a lot about those players. To step away when their county needs them the most. How substantiated that rumour is I can't verify but I'm just going with what I was told last night. I hope to God it's not true.
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby shamlads » Fri May 06, 2016 8:20 pm

Would be doing us all a favour if they all dropped themselve's off the panel,and quit disgracing the county.Aint been willing to put up a fight in many a match for past age's,why be fooled into thinking they will now.Like I have said before,nobody mind's a team getting beat,but to get mauled the way they do and throw in the towel so easily nowaday's is absolutely ridiculous.The majority of them have a neck to put on the jersey and go out and perform the way they do.At end of day it's 15 men (or so called men)against 15 men.I suppose everyone will be telling them how wonderful they are if they happen to beat Carlow.About time people got real and say it like it is,instead of going on about how much time their putting into training and travelling and all the rest,if so,how about showing it in a match situation on the pitch.Or what is all the training for?so they can throw the towel in so early?or just to get their name in the match day programme.Must be something like that,it certainly aint in aid of leaving it all out on the field for the county.
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby Kevin » Fri May 06, 2016 8:26 pm

Good luck to the team and all involved tomorrow.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby old yellar » Fri May 06, 2016 10:14 pm

Well men. Think we (carlow) will be under pressure v ye tomorrow. Down a huge amount of players for various reasons and with a small pool to pick from, it might be a bridge too far. I think we might target your fulback line myself. We potentially have 2 v potent men that could get us scores but they tend to play further out of late. We hit 13 first half wides v kerry and 2 sloppy goals so we go up with some hope but we ve to improve a lot. I m expecting a bit of a backlash from ye from what potentially could be a relegation play off..
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby sam88885a » Fri May 06, 2016 11:06 pm

frankthetank wrote:Rumour has it that two of the starting team named for Saturday have dropped themselves off the panel along with another player who was a sub last week. If that is the case it says a lot about those players. To step away when their county needs them the most. How substantiated that rumour is I can't verify but I'm just going with what I was told last night. I hope to God it's not true.

its is true and i honestly thing that the third guy had no option . last sunday he had to endure watching k connolly been brought back on when s ryan got injured . this guy has done everything , first to training , never missed training and was hurling well yet e kelly put back on k connolly rather that bring him on .

I hear 2 of those guys that left had to pull up at club training because of poor fitness .
we have a much improve team for the carlow game great to see d king back and i think this will be c kiely first senior championship start .
i see rory hanniffy defending e kelly on todays paper , another birr guys encouraging offaly by trying to be negative as possible . he tells us what a great set up kelly has ,pity he couldnt bring most of our best club hurlers with him ,now we have some guys on the panel that would not get a jersey with our best senior club teams .
great managment and massive progress . well done rory blame the players not the guy u appointed .
the players really need to hear u tell us that worse is to come for the next 10 years .
Despite e kelly i expect us to beat carlow with a bit to spare and i think we are capable of beating kerry and laois
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby private joker » Fri May 06, 2016 11:58 pm

I hope your comment on the two lads pulling up in their club training is true as I find that very hard to believe. I've been to some of the offaly training and the only way you would remain that unfit is if you didn't take part in the sessions.
Basically I think your making that up or you are not being fully honest as to why they pulled up.
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby greenairfield » Sat May 07, 2016 1:30 am

Sam are you a bit slow...or are you always this annoying???


Kiely this
Healion that
Leonard this
Grogan that...


It's quite embarrassing at this stage
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Re: Offaly v Carlow, Leinster round robin Saturday 7th May

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Sat May 07, 2016 1:36 am

If you knew the rules and / or could count, you'd know why Kevin Connolly resumed action. And it wasn't because of any percieved kilcormacology bias
sam88885a wrote: its is true and i honestly thing that the third guy had no option . last sunday he had to endure watching k connolly been brought back on when s ryan got injured . this guy has done everything , first to training , never missed training and was hurling well yet e kelly put back on k connolly rather that bring him on .
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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