Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
uibhfhaili
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by uibhfhaili »

Didn't take long for the likes of Daithi Regan/ Padraigh Horan to come under attack from the board apologists who infest this place. Some things never change.

Keiap
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by Keiap »

That's grand I've been saying all along if they can't give the commitment they shouldn't be there and all you ever really add is fire to all this by saying them few players should be on the team and you know right well they can't commit..I would recommend not bringing fellas names Into this when they have no intention of playing for offaly at this time.

sam88885a
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by sam88885a »

keiap stop twisting what i said some of those would hurl for offaly if managment made an efford to work with them .
they havent , kelly talked the talk but he had decided before a ball was ever hit who he did want ,the dogs on the street know that . fair enough others will never come back mainly due to poor treatment under other managers but if e kelly get his house in order we can turn this around with the current panel.
last sunday was mainly e kelly fault , he haddent offaly up for the game and the team selection was mad and he decided to play a sweeper with the wind leaving their no 6 completely unmarked .

Keiap
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by Keiap »

In what way would he not work with them?and of course other managers are the blame as well,because these aren't grown men with there own minds..so blame everyone else and if that doesn't work blame the next lad

Toxicity234
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by Toxicity234 »

A few thing to note.

The lads that won't commit. It's not that they won't commit, It's that they can't commit. They have family, they are building a carers or have a family life, a Wife and kids that they want to spend time with.
The amount of commitment needed for inter county hurler is impossible for some hurlers to give.

This is where the management has fail. they have been let lad drop off the panel and not trying to work with the lads to build training plan around lads life and work. Some lads are will to put in the work but physical can't get to training 4 time a week and games at the weekend.

I know manager want to get players together as much as possible but they have to see thing from a player point of view as well.
We live in a world full of technology when you can track a person fitness progress by sitting at a laptop to see the training they done and its cheaper that the players sitting in a car for hours miss work or family and paying for fuel.
Let use the technology out there to help player commit.

Lads on this site keep talking about modern game, The modern training can be done close to home. where players fitness and training can be monitored for a laptop is the way forward with the players meeting up once on a Wednesday when winter training is ongoing(plus matches and training at weekend) and this can be increased to twice a week(plus matches and training at the weekend).

Team meeting and tactics can be done over Skype for players that are not able to make tactics training meeting. Anyone who works in an office knows how easy it is to set up a Skype meeting.

These are straight forward thing that can be done to make commitment easier for players with the added advantage for ensuring that players are getting the proper rest time need for there body to recover, keep them on top of work or college work and still have time for there family.
It would reduce the stress we put on our young players and give them the best chance to preform on the field.

We may be behind our county with modern training but if we embrace technology, we can be ahead of them in 2 years fitness wise at least.
“Common sense is not so common.”

sam88885a
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by sam88885a »

not everyone works 9 to 5 , 5 days a week , . lots of those lads that are been called GOBSHITES have half a days work done before 9 so it unfair to ask them to train 5 times a week after a physical days work .
a bit of cop on from management .
N Hickey often missed training during the spring when cows were calving but he went when he could and B Cody understood .That good managment .

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bracknaghboy
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by bracknaghboy »

alltheway wrote:With regard to management, it was hearlded here a few months back when Eamonn Kelly was appointed, a revolutionary coach with a proven background with a team at an ebb such as Offaly's, see the current Kerry group. For anyone to think that Ciaran Carey came in and made that environment in less than six months would be wrong, the foundations laid by Kelly and his background team have laid the foundations for where they are thriving at their level now.
Anyone in the know would debate this.
Kerry Christy Ring Cup

2010 beaten finalists under Meyler
2011 winners under Meyler
2013 beaten finalists under Howard
2014 beaten finalists under Kelly
2015 winners under Kelly

Looks like Kerry have been on the right track for a few years before Kelly took over.

You can't compare Kerry with Offaly. Kerry were an up and coming team whilst Offaly are on a downward spiral. Its easier to get results with a team on the up than it is to stop the rot. Any manager would face the same problem. Certainly there was nothing "revolutionary" on show Sunday. A poorly picked team with a poor plan and little or no fire in the belly just about sums it up.
We need to all stop bitchin (me included), it is what it is and can't be fixed in a few days, months or even years however a shot at saving Senior intercounty status is available on Saturday so lets get a big crowd and help the lads out as best we can. Too many of them have given too much to the cause to end up in the Christy Ring.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Oh dear Lord!

Those are two asses of posts. You two are only making it up as you go along to prove your lunatic kilcormacology bullshit. There are plenty of good people in Kilcormac and Killoughey and I’d say they throw their eyes to Heaven at your seafóid.

Do your training on a laptop? Have team meetings on Skype? How the fuck is team spirit to be built on Skype? Do you even know what Skype is?

If a lad can’t commit to the demands of inter-county hurling (or football for that matter) then he doesn’t commit. There can be no half measures. That's tough, but that's the way it is. On the other kind of absentee, someone who walks off because his sensibilities have been offended probably isn’t going to be any use to you when you go behind against Westmeath anyway. And someone whose reaction to correction, or instruction, is to sneer at the manager, shouldn't be tolerated.

And if you want a county panel which trains once a week, that’s a different matter and the results will match. You want to give them time off? What happens when they encounter a team who do train five times a week? Figure it out for yourselves.
Toxicity234 wrote:A few thing to note.

The lads that won't commit. It's not that they won't commit, It's that they can't commit. They have family, they are building a carers or have a family life, a Wife and kids that they want to spend time with.
The amount of commitment needed for inter county hurler is impossible for some hurlers to give.

This is where the management has fail. they have been let lad drop off the panel and not trying to work with the lads to build training plan around lads life and work. Some lads are will to put in the work but physical can't get to training 4 time a week and games at the weekend.

I know manager want to get players together as much as possible but they have to see thing from a player point of view as well.
We live in a world full of technology when you can track a person fitness progress by sitting at a laptop to see the training they done and its cheaper that the players sitting in a car for hours miss work or family and paying for fuel.
Let use the technology out there to help player commit.

Lads on this site keep talking about modern game, The modern training can be done close to home. where players fitness and training can be monitored for a laptop is the way forward with the players meeting up once on a Wednesday when winter training is ongoing(plus matches and training at weekend) and this can be increased to twice a week(plus matches and training at the weekend).

Team meeting and tactics can be done over Skype for players that are not able to make tactics training meeting. Anyone who works in an office knows how easy it is to set up a Skype meeting.

These are straight forward thing that can be done to make commitment easier for players with the added advantage for ensuring that players are getting the proper rest time need for there body to recover, keep them on top of work or college work and still have time for there family.
It would reduce the stress we put on our young players and give them the best chance to preform on the field.

We may be behind our county with modern training but if we embrace technology, we can be ahead of them in 2 years fitness wise at least.
Sam88885a wrote:not everyone works 9 to 5 , 5 days a week , . lots of those lads that are been called GOBSHITES have half a days work done before 9 so it unfair to ask them to train 5 times a week after a physical days work .
a bit of cop on from management .
N Hickey often missed training during the spring when cows were calving but he went when he could and B Cody understood .That good managment .
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

allstar2010
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by allstar2010 »

bracknaghboy wrote: We need to all stop bitchin (me included), it is what it is and can't be fixed in a few days, months or even years however a shot at saving Senior intercounty status is available on Saturday so lets get a big crowd and help the lads out as best we can. Too many of them have given too much to the cause to end up in the Christy Ring.
Here here Bracknaghboy, the least we can do now is turn out in numbers to support them in the next two games.

Keiap
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by Keiap »

Now your saying Noel hickey was allowed to come and go as he pleased in the spring..I'd imagine you don't know Noel hickey.did I see right or did a fella just say we should Skype team meeting.Aswell sam them lads must need serious therapy if the word gobshite offends them..you can also question daiti as a hurler maybe he was or wasn't the best but he has numerous club and intercounty all Ireland medals.

jimbob17
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by jimbob17 »

alltheway wrote:I have to say, I'm a regular reader here, but a rare poster. Just to pick up on a few points and the dismay surrounding the county team's performance, most notably at the weekend, while disappointing, is hardly surprising. We'll come to that in a minute, but I just feel that to vilify any player, or member of a management team alike is just unfair and mean. We have to realise, in this day and age, and from our population pool and our current state of development that it will be lean and barren in the immediate short to mid-term. And I lament that and the state of affairs as much as anyone, it is very disheartening, but that is the way it is, and not for a lack of trying by those involved within the intercounty setup. For players to give up up to four nights of their working week, travelling from Limerick, Dublin, Cork and further a field, to train to the highest level of training, sacrificing home, work, social and family life for little, or in the current case no reward is highly commendable. For the litany of abuse and failure they currently recieve, would anyone of them be blamed if they walked away? No, yet they don't, they persist with a training regime that starts in mid november, with the best of facilities and guidance available to them, to afford us supporters the right and hope to travel to games hoping for a performance which unfortunatly hasn't been happening. This is an incredibly frustrating time for those who follow the team, but even harder for the small committed group of players which make that sacrifice week in, week out and shoulder a tonne of the grief that comes along with not heing fruitful on the playing field at the current time.

With regard to management, it was hearlded here a few months back when Eamonn Kelly was appointed, a revolutionary coach with a proven background with a team at an ebb such as Offaly's, see the current Kerry group. For anyone to think that Ciaran Carey came in and made that environment in less than six months would be wrong, the foundations laid by Kelly and his background team have laid the foundations for where they are thriving at their level now. Should we be talk of being at Kerry's level in comparrisson? Absolutely, because that is where we are, and we need to accept that and take stock of where we are and realise that the ass has to go before the cart now and start to build, not dig lower. Is it Eamonn Kelly or Brian Whelehans fault before him, or even those before that, that we are struggling to match even to average to low ranked teams? The conveyor belt isn't even trundling along, it has seized up, and will require a new machine to start the process again. Let's start with your own contribution as a coach, helper, parent, committee member, chairman or a general memeber. What are you, or your club doing as we will start there. What foundations have you put in place to deal with the development of a early school goingn child to develop their hand eye coordination, their approach to athletic develpment and skill recognition in your school or nursery in the field? How many parents have you drafted in to help and get the minimum level coaching award to feel confident in lending a hand both in the field, and in the homestead.
Have we helped create this environment, or has it been easier allow the kids be quiet and shove a tablet under their noses or a phone?

Following on from that as kids learn the basic athletic and motor funtions, hand eye coordination exercises etc., are they developing coming into ten to fourteen year olds where they can be exposed to more advanced coaching, shooting, tackling, catching and winning ball in contested drills within the training session, thus putting the more preparitive aspects neccessary to deal with the rigours of hurling in place, or is it pucking in twos, a few line drills and a match where 'That's it Johnny, let fly! Bull into it, that's the job!', or have you identified the need to come up with drills that replicate a match situation more closely. Now we're at the stage where the better of the cream and the more dominant, physically first, skillwise second, are sent into a development squad where they hope to start off a flourishing intercounty career and be the next TJ Reid. Where is that setup, and how often do they meet, and what is going on in them? This remember, is to be a step-up to the eliter level than you have providied at club level. The result? A six week camp, the first two, open trials where 40/50 kids attend a session in Banagher, and over those weeks it's whittled down to 24/30 and that group is to play in a couple of blitzes and trainings to be ready for the Tony Forristal come seasons end? Impossible. And it isnt solely down to those willing to get involved in these squads, but 'resources', 'time', 'logisitics', all the answers of a county who don't wish to move heaven and eart to run a productive, almost year round, set of academies at various age groups relevant to their progression, both skill wise and scientifically.

We have trundled along and the best end up on a minor panel, the average of 2-3 years, a minor team gets more resources and skillsets available to them to push them on and ready to prepare them for adult intercounty hurling, yet, the lads that have stepped up arent fully proficient in striking off both sides, movement, creative play, athletically developed, and it's at this stage the supporters and management alike panic, realise this is not a good group, the damage is done. The horse has bolted... And the belt is worn.

So now we end up with a chap, eighteen years young, about to be fed to the lions, and we, from ourseles within our clubs and schools, to the administration which have failed to put all their power and resources into going delving into this, the most vital cog of all the grass roots, and put in meaningful foundations to bulild on, and make this great game attractive, relevant, ground breaking and excitingn in this great county. From here on out let's cast the eye inward, and do whatever is in you damnest power to try and be the change.

Eamonn Kelly, his backroom team, his players, are giving as much of their time and resources to the cause, however frustrating. You all on here know players, members of the management or someone close to them, and the chatter coming out of the setup from players is that they still regard Kelly and his staff in the highest regard and he with them. The pool is small, neither he, nor Brian before him, or Baker before that can go into the homes of the lads we might like to hurl for us and drag them out the door, they've shown that disinterest over three management teams so each one can't be blamed for X, Y, or Z not being in there or not commiting. That's 9/10 a personal call and if they cant or don't want to committ to it, sobeit, such is life. We have a hard struggle ahead, but in a month's time we could still be in a leinster semi final, which was the realistic target at the start of the year. Carlow saturday, before Kerry, and hopefully Laois. The lads need us now more than ever, I thank them all for what they try to do, and I'll be clapping them come
Saturday evening please god as we try to salvage what's left of the year at this level.

Then maybe we'll realise the problem lies deeper somewhere else, and instead of being reactive to it, let's try proactive...
As good a post as we have seen here in a long time. Firstly, let us commend all players currently putting their shoulder to the wheel. Its not an easy time to be an Offaly hurler. They deserve all the support they can get. Management may have done things differently but lets be clear here, many of the so called better hurlers were unwilling to make the required commitments. A standard must be set by management and players need to meet that head on. However, maybe sometimes, a more roundabout way of pulling lads along could serve some better. That may appear as dancing to the players tune but, there is a happy medium in everything. Had management been surrounded with a little more local knowledge, they might have found easier ways of getting around some lads.

Regan comments appear to be quite controversial but he wears his heart on his sleeve and only has the best interests of Offaly hurling at heart. His choice of language describing the defectors is not helpful however and may only serve to prolong their absence. That said, some arent willing to meet the standard and that is how he called it when asked the question.

To really look at the reasons we need to go back to development squads for the last 10-12 years and what was done in them! We must ask the hard questions.
Were they run in a manner that players physical development needs for modern inter county hurling were addressed?
Were players made accountable to hit certain targets regarding fitness? If not, why not?
Did players receive appropriate levels of technical skill coaching for modern game? If not, why not?
Did players receive appropriate levels of tactical awareness for various positions within the modern game? If not, why not?
Were players educated on what they needed to be doing regards strength and conditioning? If not, why not?
Were players educated on expectations of inter county hurler for nutrition and hydration? If not, why not?

The likes of Limerick, Wexford, Laois and Clare all have these things in place. They are making strides as a result. If we looked after this for the next 5 years the landscape would improve hugely with standards of club players also improving with the volume having gone through development squad system.

These are a few basic pillars that are being done in ALL competitive counties! These are the basics, the fundamentals upon which all modern inter county McCarthy cup players have been brought up on through inter county development programmes in other counties. If we are not at these, then we are not going to be competitive at the top tier - EVER!

The game has moved on and we have stood still. These are the actions required. What have we done? WE HAVE NO PLAN!

We have huge enthusiasm with little or no know how generally. 300 coaches turned out to watch Martin Fogarty training sessions - nothing brilliant but good nonetheless. However there was no follow through! Why werent these coaches hooked into programmes that would up-skill them and improve them. Coaches need to realise this and the county really needs to push up-skilling of coaches but also improve the development system whereby everyone coming through the system has developed in all these areas. Our pool is small enough without without not putting the stepping stones in place to give lads the chance to be competitive at inter county senior level.
jimbob

timber
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by timber »

Problem lies with how badly underage has been neglected going back to the early 90's. The only successful underage teams that I can remember was in 2000 with minors and under 21s winning Leinster. Both beating Kilkenny along the way. Two very decent sides with a lot of passionate players within both squads.

I remember that u21 team had a decent chunk of the squad underage again the following year and they bowed out weakly to Wexford. Some players never got a fair crack after impressing at the "trials". There is an arrogance in some clubs towards others and that is a major problem when it comes to county teams at underage and the management over these teams.

That minor team that won the Leinster were brought along really well from u14 level the whole way up to Minor where the minor management team appointed inherited a well developed and close knit squad.

Since then underage teams have gradually been weaker and weaker. for example a few years ago I saw some county minors who started Leinster championship games hurling Junior B level for their club. Absolute waste of time but what struck me more was that they got outplayed by their direct opponents even at junior B level.

Looking back over last 15 years or so of senior club hurling in the county, I have always been surprised at how competitive some duel clubs have been in games against the teams who only focus on the small ball. I know for a fact that some duel clubs who focus more on football might only have maybe trained once or twice in the two weeks before a championship game and still gone out and either beaten or gone very close to beating a team only focusing on hurling. That should not be possible in a game that is so skill focussed. It either proves that the duel player is very talented or the other hurling focused players are not at a good senior standard.

Does anybody who is closer to things back home in the county know what sort of structures are in place at underage level and are the right people managing these set ups. When I say the right people, I mean with regard to coaching expertise and just as important straight thinking people who will give any player a fair crack and have no bias against what club they are from etc.

greenairfield
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by greenairfield »

Banagher recently put a huge 5 year plan together
Covers all areas of the club.

I think we should get a couple of these guys to a hold a meeting and bring in the same like minded people to go for positions in the county board.

Once Boland and his men are ran I then think we should delete this website because the scutter that comes up here is more damaging than anything.


Who's with me??

kingscounty
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by kingscounty »

greenairfield wrote:Banagher recently put a huge 5 year plan together
Covers all areas of the club.

I think we should get a couple of these guys to a hold a meeting and bring in the same like minded people to go for positions in the county board.

Once Boland and his men are ran I then think we should delete this website because the scutter that comes up here is more damaging than anything.


Who's with me??
Agree with you fully sure why don't you start us all off and delete your account first??

Sharp Eye
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Re: Offaly v Westmeath, Mullingar, Sunday 1st May

Post by Sharp Eye »

Plain of the Herbs wrote:Oh dear Lord!


Do your training on a laptop? Have team meetings on Skype? How the fuck is team spirit to be built on Skype? Do you even know what Skype is?

If a lad can’t commit to the demands of inter-county hurling (or football for that matter) then he doesn’t commit. There can be no half measures. That's tough, but that's the way it is. On the other kind of absentee, someone who walks off because his sensibilities have been offended probably isn’t going to be any use to you when you go behind against Westmeath anyway. And someone whose reaction to correction, or instruction, is to sneer at the manager, shouldn't be tolerated.

And if you want a county panel which trains once a week, that’s a different matter and the results will match. You want to give them time off? What happens when they encounter a team who do train five times a week? Figure it out for yourselves.
Toxicity234 wrote:A few thing to note.

The lads that won't commit. It's not that they won't commit, It's that they can't commit. They have family, they are building a carers or have a family life, a Wife and kids that they want to spend time with.
The amount of commitment needed for inter county hurler is impossible for some hurlers to give.

This is where the management has fail. they have been let lad drop off the panel and not trying to work with the lads to build training plan around lads life and work. Some lads are will to put in the work but physical can't get to training 4 time a week and games at the weekend.

I know manager want to get players together as much as possible but they have to see thing from a player point of view as well.
We live in a world full of technology when you can track a person fitness progress by sitting at a laptop to see the training they done and its cheaper that the players sitting in a car for hours miss work or family and paying for fuel.
Let use the technology out there to help player commit.

Lads on this site keep talking about modern game, The modern training can be done close to home. where players fitness and training can be monitored for a laptop is the way forward with the players meeting up once on a Wednesday when winter training is ongoing(plus matches and training at weekend) and this can be increased to twice a week(plus matches and training at the weekend).

Team meeting and tactics can be done over Skype for players that are not able to make tactics training meeting. Anyone who works in an office knows how easy it is to set up a Skype meeting.

These are straight forward thing that can be done to make commitment easier for players with the added advantage for ensuring that players are getting the proper rest time need for there body to recover, keep them on top of work or college work and still have time for there family.
It would reduce the stress we put on our young players and give them the best chance to preform on the field.

Mickey Harte of Tyrone, who in my opinion is one of the greatest managers of all time, requests his panel to meet on minimal occasions each week. Each panel member has their own development plan. On the occasions that the players actually meet, they are closely monitored in fitness tests etc in order to ensure that they are doing the work. Requesting players from all over the country to travel to Athlone IT during the week for gym sessions is very poor use of players time. Management is not about being a dictator, but about doing what is best for the team.

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