Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby greenairfield » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:33 pm

Birr 2 - 20
Coolderry 0 - 11

Poor enough game I thought myself, but Birr did score some great point from all over the field im the second half.
Coolderry without Carroll and Kevin Brady looked like a very ordinary side and whether they are worth 15pts remains to be seen.

Best on the night were Hayden, Watkins,Verney, Murphy and Cahill who got some lovely points.

I think Coolderry could struggle when it comes to knock out stages, if Birr keep improving and P cleary gets back they will be right there with a chance of winning the county final.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:30 am

This weekend has shown that there is a massive difference between Senior teams in the county @ present and the county board need to do something about this.

3 out of 6 games had teams winning by more than 20 points:
Clareen 2.23 (29) Shamrocks 0.8
Shinrone 4.19 (31) Ballinamere 0.9
Belmont 5.22 (37) Lusmagh 0.10

I think the 3 teams above have been strugggling @ senior ranks for too long. They are all good huhrling people and all clubs have produced good county hurlers for us in the past but the gap to fill to too much. The county board need these teams hurling competitvely and not to be bouncing between Intermediate and Senior.

There was two other games which would question the gap also. Tullamore and Coolderry on paper look depleted from the teams they had over the past and look like they have no underage coming through to compete at this level.
Kinnitty 3.17 (26) Tulamore 0.14
Birr 2.20 (26) Coolderry 11

To have one of six senior hurling games as a competition in championship is not good enough. We need a better system. Be it Senior B, knockout but something has to change.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby Killeighman » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:41 am

Agreed. A senior B must be introduced. Shamrocks and Lusmagh were down a number of starting players at the weekend which contributed to the wider scoring gap but that is not saying they would have won the games in question. K/K, Brosna Gaels and Clodiagh Gaels are the front runners in intermediate at the moment with all three teams winning over the weekend. Drumcullen badly depleted with long term injuries. Senior B has to be solution with maybe one group of 6 teams. Your top 3 teams in intermediate and bottom 3 teams in senior. Players won't want to hurl if they are getting those beatings every day they go out.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby Lone Shark » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:32 am

Just to be clear, the county board proposed exactly that - the return of the weak group, either as a solution in itself, or as stepping stone to senior B in 2017. (You couldn't go straight to senior B as it would be unfair on those involved who had already started preparing with an old framework in mind).

The clubs wholeheartedly rejected it.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby Sharp Eye » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:08 pm

Lone Shark wrote:Just to be clear, the county board proposed exactly that - the return of the weak group, either as a solution in itself, or as stepping stone to senior B in 2017. (You couldn't go straight to senior B as it would be unfair on those involved who had already started preparing with an old framework in mind).

The clubs wholeheartedly rejected it.


There should be 2 Groups of 4 Teams in Senior A with 3 teams from each group to qualify for the county quarter final. There should be 2 groups of 4 teams in Senior B with the top team from each group to qualify for the county quarter final. The bottom team in each Senior A group to be relegated to Senior B. The bottom teams in each Senior B group to play off for relegation to Intermediate. The Offaly football championship has suffered fro the fact that the Senior B teams cannot make the knockout stages of the Offaly Senior Football Championship.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby Lone Shark » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:33 pm

Sharp Eye wrote:
Lone Shark wrote:Just to be clear, the county board proposed exactly that - the return of the weak group, either as a solution in itself, or as stepping stone to senior B in 2017. (You couldn't go straight to senior B as it would be unfair on those involved who had already started preparing with an old framework in mind).

The clubs wholeheartedly rejected it.


There should be 2 Groups of 4 Teams in Senior A with 3 teams from each group to qualify for the county quarter final. There should be 2 groups of 4 teams in Senior B with the top team from each group to qualify for the county quarter final. The bottom team in each Senior A group to be relegated to Senior B. The bottom teams in each Senior B group to play off for relegation to Intermediate. The Offaly football championship has suffered fro the fact that the Senior B teams cannot make the knockout stages of the Offaly Senior Football Championship.


But is that not effectively returning the weak group structure, just returning two of them instead of one? Note I'm not saying I disagree here, merely that I don't think it's a particularly significant repackaging, sufficient to get it over the line.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:02 pm

I think the weak group would make the problem a lot better for offaly hurling. It was in fact the teams who are givin the beatens and winning by 20 points that rejected this proposal because of fear.

just an example so the 4 teams in the weak group hurl each other and its at the competivie level and 2 teams emerge - example lusmagh and ballinamere come out

The 2 stronger groups of 4 teams would remove the pointless beatens that have been just displayed last weekend.

It would mean 6 of 8 teams would come through the stronger section and the 2 weaker teams would make up the 4 quarter finals and knockout hurling starts where anything can happen.

The teams who rejected this proposal was the stronger grouped teams would where fearful of loosing 3 games coming 4th and not having a qf to contest.

This has to change, either we make a weaker group or go to Senior B but what it happening @ present is damaging club hurling in Offaly and as said earlier players dont want to be in the situation of getting beaten by 20 points so they will stop playing until their club is relegated and are in a position in intermediate where they are giving the beatens. How many times over the last few years have we seen teams that went down from senior come back up after 1 or 2 years.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby Sharp Eye » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:46 pm

Lone Shark wrote:
Sharp Eye wrote:
Lone Shark wrote:Just to be clear, the county board proposed exactly that - the return of the weak group, either as a solution in itself, or as stepping stone to senior B in 2017. (You couldn't go straight to senior B as it would be unfair on those involved who had already started preparing with an old framework in mind).

The clubs wholeheartedly rejected it.


There should be 2 Groups of 4 Teams in Senior A with 3 teams from each group to qualify for the county quarter final. There should be 2 groups of 4 teams in Senior B with the top team from each group to qualify for the county quarter final. The bottom team in each Senior A group to be relegated to Senior B. The bottom teams in each Senior B group to play off for relegation to Intermediate. The Offaly football championship has suffered fro the fact that the Senior B teams cannot make the knockout stages of the Offaly Senior Football Championship.


But is that not effectively returning the weak group structure, just returning two of them instead of one? Note I'm not saying I disagree here, merely that I don't think it's a particularly significant repackaging, sufficient to get it over the line.


What was wrong with the proposal was that it was perceived as being much more difficult to qualify from the strong groups than from the weaker groups. With my suggestion any team that fails to finish in the first 3 out of 4 cannot complain about being out of the championship. Teams in the B Sections have to actually win their groups in order to qualify. Sixteen teams in the county will have the opportunity to reach the knock out stages with the teams in the A section having the better chance.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:50 am

I agree with you Sharpe Eye.

Whats happening @ present is a disgrace and no good for offaly hurling, clubs or players. Basically the top teams in the group and beating the weaker teams by cricket scores, they all get into the quarter final and championship only starts then.

To move forward as a county we need change.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby KeshaWantsTimber » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:10 am

When is round 3 fixed for? Website says round 3 tbc. It was somewhat understandable earlier in the year
that it was difficult to set fixtures with county team still playing. But now there is no excuse and still no fixtures.
It's an absolute shambles. Fix the remaining 3 games now and let club players know where the stand and be able to plan
a few days away or a 21st or whatever.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:56 am

Keshawantstimber, you have hit the nail on the head.

The secretary of the county board should ne easily able to do this. just fix the dates now, venues and referees can be done closer to the time. let the club player plan their lives and other comittments around the dates.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby frankthetank » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:55 pm

SHC Round 3: weekend July 29th - August 1st

SHC Round 4: weekend August 12th - August 14th

SHC Round 5: weekend August 19th - August 21st

SHC Q-Finals: weekend September 2nd - September 4th

SHC S-Finals: Sunday September 18th

SHC Final: Sunday October 16th

2 things that jump out immediately are A) The 4 week gap between semi final and final and B) the possibility that all 4 Q-Finals will have to be played on Saturday September 3rd because if you play any of them on the Sunday you are depriving a lot of people the chance to attend the All Ireland Hurling Final.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:32 pm

Somehow Frankthetank unless you are the secetary of the county board I can see them dates changing.

They never stick to the proposal they set out!
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:26 pm

Thanks for posting that, Frank. I agree with you on the two points you raised. The All-Ireland Final is indeed on Sunday 4th (I've just checked), although the master list is made with the All-Ireland being on the following Sunday, the 11th.
frankthetank wrote:SHC Round 3: weekend July 29th - August 1st

SHC Round 4: weekend August 12th - August 14th

SHC Round 5: weekend August 19th - August 21st

SHC Q-Finals: weekend September 2nd - September 4th

SHC S-Finals: Sunday September 18th

SHC Final: Sunday October 16th

2 things that jump out immediately are A) The 4 week gap between semi final and final and B) the possibility that all 4 Q-Finals will have to be played on Saturday September 3rd because if you play any of them on the Sunday you are depriving a lot of people the chance to attend the All Ireland Hurling Final.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:34 pm

I wouldn't agree with that assertion. The master fixtures generally run to plan, at least at Senior grades. They have to run to plan, or at least as close to plan as possible, as there is three weeks between the Senior hurling final and the champions' first round in Leinster (ditto for Senior football.

Round two of the Senior hurling championship was scheduled for the weekend 16th/17th July, and whaddya think happened? Now granted the Intermediate hurling is a round behind, and scheduling will require .
kaiserchief wrote:Somehow Frankthetank unless you are the secetary of the county board I can see them dates changing.

They never stick to the proposal they set out!
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