Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby frankthetank » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:53 pm

Id prefer a 4 week gap rather than a 13 week gap.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:56 pm

Joe Bloggs if you read my post correctly you would see that 6 of the 8 stronger teams would get through. Top 3 through and 4th team is finished for the year. Realistically for a team to come 4th they wouldn't win a group game and that's what is kind of happening @ the moment. The team coming 4th is beating the weaker teams and qualifying for a qf.

The weaker group would have two teams come up and play the teams who finished 1st in the group. Wouldn't it be brilliant for Offaly hurling if Lusmagh came in the top 2 and got a crack @ KK in a qf.
Third and fourth in this group would play relegation.

I think this system would improve our whole situation. No games until July or offaly out of championship. More competitive games in group one and two to finish in top 3. More competitive games with weaker teams. Weaker teams giving an underdog chance in knockout.

Maybe it's just me that she's this as sense but something has to change because what's there at present is just not working.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby joe bloggs » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:15 pm

kaiserchief wrote:Joe Bloggs if you read my post correctly you would see that 6 of the 8 stronger teams would get through. Top 3 through and 4th team is finished for the year. Realistically for a team to come 4th they wouldn't win a group game and that's what is kind of happening @ the moment. The team coming 4th is beating the weaker teams and qualifying for a qf.

The weaker group would have two teams come up and play the teams who finished 1st in the group. Wouldn't it be brilliant for Offaly hurling if Lusmagh came in the top 2 and got a crack @ KK in a qf.
Third and fourth in this group would play relegation.

I think this system would improve our whole situation. No games until July or offaly out of championship. More competitive games in group one and two to finish in top 3. More competitive games with weaker teams. Weaker teams giving an underdog chance in knockout.

Maybe it's just me that she's this as sense but something has to change because what's there at present is just not working.


That's not what your earlier post proposed. You had top team in each strong group going to semi finals, with the second placed teams going to quarters v first and second from the weak group.

You are making it up as you go along. Now you are saying it would be great to see Lusmagh have
a crack at KK in a QF, yet earlier today you described their group match as a non event, albeit losing wouldn't knock out Lusmagh. I would suspect there would be another non event if they met in a quarter final, just like Offaly v Kilkenny recently.

There should be no such thing as a weak group. You are either good enough to play senior or not. If there are not 12 teams of a close enough standard then reduce it as has happened in football.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby allstar2010 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:41 pm

Joe Bloggs, I think you're mixing me and Kaiserchief up! Anyway, it is hard to get the correct format but change is badly needed. If we were to go down the senior a and b route maybe have something like this:
Promote the four strongest teams from intermed (prob Clodiagh Gaels, Brosna Gaels, Drumcullen and Skenaghavilla). Now we have 16 teams. Seed the 8 quarter finalists from last year and draw them against the 8 other teams. 8 games, call it a senior championship qualifier round. If there's only going to be one game before the inter county championship let this be it! 8 winners go into senior A championship and 8 losers into B competition. The champ is then played off in 2 groups of 4 with top 2 into semi. Adv of this is that teams training from January have a "knockout" game to look forward to.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby joe bloggs » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:09 am

Yes All Star, the Kaiser threw me off above there as I had raised the points on your proposals, not his....bloody Germans!
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby joe bloggs » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:26 am

That 1 game and you're either in or out of the senior championship wouldn't be popular with the players. A couple of injuries to key players and that's your chance of winning the senior championship over in one game.

My ideal would be eight teams. One group. Top 4 semis. Bottom 2 relegation final. 9 games to complete championships at all grades. Scrap leagues to free up a couple of extra dates. Play a knockout tournament with one back door round for in place of leagues for club players only very early in the year while NHL is on.

Pros - no huge gulf in standards between teams. There should be something to play for at all times in a competitive group.ie seeding for semifinal, qualifying for semifinal,avoiding relegation final. All teams have 7 games, 4 have 8, 2 have 9.

Cons - Dual clubs will be under pressure and should Offaly progress in the championship available dates will shrink.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:19 am

Joe Bloggs I think you had a madness moment and you are the one making things up as you go!! fumbling different proposals for your argument.

I think your proposal of one group with 8 teams will not work. Firstly banishing the league will not work and is not in the interest of the club player. And organising 7 championship games would cause havoc. Thats why the senior b football once made from one group of 8 to 2 groups of 4.
I think 8 teams with 2 group of 4 might would work but also with no group seedings. Look @ the football draw this year with the strongest ranked teams over the last few years in the one group. but then do you want 4 teams to senior b??

I still think the weaker group is the best solution, we will still have 12 senior teams.

Joe Bloggs I never said Lusmagh against KK was a non event last weekend?? where did you see this?
Maybe it could be like Kilkenny and Offaly but in knock-out championship everything changes. These are all if's and but's. end of day we need change and it's just my opinion and a proposal that could work. Not like banishing the league and playing 7 championship games. That's just pure madness.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:31 am

Joe Bloggs I think you had a madness moment and you are the one making things up as you go!! fumbling different proposals for your argument.

I think your proposal of one group with 8 teams will not work. Firstly banishing the league will not work and is not in the interest of the club player. And organising 7 championship games would cause havoc. Thats why the senior b football once made from one group of 8 to 2 groups of 4.
I think 8 teams with 2 group of 4 might would work but also with no group seedings. Look @ the football draw this year with the strongest ranked teams over the last few years in the one group. but then do you want 4 teams to senior b??

I still think the weaker group is the best solution, we will still have 12 senior teams.

Joe Bloggs I never said Lusmagh against KK was a non event last weekend?? where did you see this?
Maybe it could be like Kilkenny and Offaly but in knock-out championship everything changes. These are all if's and but's. end of day we need change and it's just my opinion and a proposal that could work. Not like banishing the league and playing 7 championship games. That's just pure madness.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby KeshaWantsTimber » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:25 am

Options as I see it:

Option 1: Reduce Senior to 10 teams
Format: 2 groups of 5.
Top team into semi finals.
2 and 3 against each other in quarter finals.
Bottom team in each group face off for relegation.
Start c'ship in July and work through to mid September.

Option 2: Create Senior A and Senior B.
8 teams in each championship.
2015 Senior quarter finalists in A
2015 Senior non-qualifiers and intermediate semi-finalists in Senior B.
Format: 2 groups of four with top two in semi-finals
or
open draw with qualifiers meaning every tam gets a 2nd chance.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby joe bloggs » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:07 pm

kaiserchief wrote:Joe Bloggs I think you had a madness moment and you are the one making things up as you go!! fumbling different proposals for your argument.

I think your proposal of one group with 8 teams will not work. Firstly banishing the league will not work and is not in the interest of the club player. And organising 7 championship games would cause havoc. Thats why the senior b football once made from one group of 8 to 2 groups of 4.
I think 8 teams with 2 group of 4 might would work but also with no group seedings. Look @ the football draw this year with the strongest ranked teams over the last few years in the one group. but then do you want 4 teams to senior b??

I still think the weaker group is the best solution, we will still have 12 senior teams.

Joe Bloggs I never said Lusmagh against KK was a non event last weekend?? where did you see this?
Maybe it could be like Kilkenny and Offaly but in knock-out championship everything changes. These are all if's and but's. end of day we need change and it's just my opinion and a proposal that could work. Not like banishing the league and playing 7 championship games. That's just pure madness.


Your reply quoting me up this page, when i was looking at all stars proposals are what confused me on the lusmagh example.

With regard to my proposal there i would believe they are workable if there was a strong fixtures committee in place.

You can call the second grade senior b if you want, like in football, but the reality is that it is an intermediate championship. I would have 8 teams at each grade, keeping a fairly even standard at all levels from senior right down to junior c
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby SearingDrive » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:21 pm

frankthetank wrote:Id prefer a 4 week gap rather than a 13 week gap.

Correct. Offaly won't feature in the closing stages of the championship, so play off the games, the club player suffers again.
Same applies to football, starting in July does not make sense to me.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby kaiserchief » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:50 pm

It will hard getting a system that suits everyone.

We have to develop one that suits the club hurler and betters offaly hurling championships for the future.
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It's back!!

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:19 pm

Yup, club hurling’s back this weekend. Starting with the Junior ‘B’ final between St Rynagh’s and Clodiagh Gaels on Friday evening at headquarters. July being the earliest Junior ‘B’ final ever.

At the same time, Birr and Coolderry meet in Shinrone. A Tullamore double header on Saturday evening with Clareen playing Shamrocks at 6pm, and Kilcormac v ’Rynagh’s at 7.30pm. On Sunday Ballinamere play Shinrone in Kilcormac at 11.30 am, while there’s a Rath double header on Sunday evening opening with Lusmagh v Belmont at 6pm, followed by Kinnitty v Tullamore at 7.30pm.

Now, I appreciate they are giving matches to venues who provided pitches for round 1 when conditions were adverse and many pitches were unavailable. But bringing ’Rynagh’s to Tullamore twice in 24 hours seems harsh. Petrol and diesel costs the same in Banagher as it does anywhere else.

I had a look to see how frequently the Senior clubs have been brought to Tullamore for group games in the last three years (that’s since 2013’s first round). Results are as follows-

Birr 1 of 16
Belmont 3 of 16
Ballinamere 5 of 11
Brosna Gaels 1 of 15
Seir Kieran 2 of 16
Coolderry 0 of 16
Drumcullen 0 of 10
Kinnitty 3 of 16
Kilcormac 3 of 16
Lusmagh 0 of 5
Rynagh’s 4 of 16
Shamrocks 3 of 6
Shinrone 2 of 16
Tullamore 5 of 16

Tullamore and Ballinamere top the list, understandably I suppose, while Shamrocks have played three of their six Senior group games at headquarters. But next on the list are St Rynagh's, who will play their fifth group game out of 17 at the venue on Saturday. It doesn't make sense, particularly when Kilcormac have played just three group games out of their last 16 there, and Kilcormac is ten miles from Tullamore (less than half the distance Banagher is). Something doesn't add up.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby greenairfield » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:33 am

What is more dissapointing about this weekend is the fact there isn't a single senior club came been held in Birr.

OCP has a double header every time there is a round of hurling matches and to not give Birr one game is more or less sticking your middle finger up to the club.

No pitch has the god given right to hold games but it is the second biggest pitch/ stand we have in the county and alot of work has gone on there over the last couple of years the CB should acknowledge that, our county board wonder why everybody laughs at them well with actions like this you can see why!!
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Postby Toxicity234 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:37 am

How many team outside of tullamore and Ballinmere have Rynagh's played in O'Connor park?

Really looking forward to the weekend Hurling. In Kilkenny of friday for a wedding so going to a few game early sat morning and them straight back to O'Connor Park.
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