Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

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Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

OK. Hurling fixture making in this county is officially a crisis.

By the time round 3 is over, not one of Lusmagh, Kinnitty, Clareen, Moystown, Carrig, Crinkill or Coolderry will have hosted a game in this year’s Senior hurling championship. It’s not as if any of these venues are incapable of hosting matches either, for all have proven they can host Senior matches.

I don’t have a problem with the semi-finals and the Final played in Tullamore, which is a separate issue. Nor is it about playing matches in Birr – it is about a fair spread of Senior hurling fixtures among hurling clubs.

By the time the forthcoming round 3 is over, the 18 matches will have been shared – OCP 7, Banagher 4, Rath 3, Kilcormac 2, Birr & Shinrone 1 each. That’s a shocking spread.

There is no excuse for this. By the time round 3 is over, someone from Banagher who attends all their club’s Senior matches will have travelled a total of 150 miles. In contrast, someone from Tullamore will have made one trip to Rath (probably 34 miles of a round trip) and could have walked to the other two. Where’s the fairness in that?

It also ignores what a big deal it is for a club to host a match, or a double header. It brings the club spirit to the fore. Locals who mightn’t otherwise be involved in the club offer their help stewarding, or parking cars or whatever. It’s a chance for the club to stick their chest out. The local children bring the hurls and puck around every chance they get. Promoting the game.

Carrig hasn’t had a Senior match since Shinrone played Lusmagh there in 2013. Crinkill hasn’t had a Senior match since Shinrone beat Shamrocks there in 2011. The only match Kinnitty got last year was a relegation playoff between themselves and Shamrocks.

The media aren't going to make an issue out of this because they're not going to give up a centrally heated press room in Tullamore for standing among the plebs at a rural venue. Notice how they get excited when subs are announced on a public address. Lusmagh put on four subs last Sunday against Belmont - only two of them were recorded. There is to be a disconnect between Fixtures on the one hand and the wider community on the other, and it is doing nothing for Offaly hurling.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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joe bloggs
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by joe bloggs »

Fixture committee defying logic at this stage.

This weekend will be the sixth championship game in a row that Rynaghs have played in OCP...a bit like the Dubs in Croker!
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Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

At least the Dubs get out of Croker once every ten years.

Incidentally the fixtures scandal isn't confined to hurling, for Doon played Tubber in Senior football this evening. Now, there were several venues convenient to both clubs (Ferbane, Clara, Ballycumber, Pullough, Shannonbridge for example) but the match was in Tullamore. And from which venue Fixtures Secretary Mary Dunne was tweetin' the scores, presumably from the sanctuary of the centrally heated O'Connor Park press room.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by Keiap »

Mary dunne doesn't have a clue,along with everyone else in that shambles for a second year shinrone/banagher are brought to ocp for less than 500 people to watch the match..well done there..birr were promised when they hosted the first round match that they were getting a second round match because a lot of clubs cud not host because of the bad weather...also these intermediate games on the Sunday evening not only is it a bank holiday but its vintage Sunday in birr..the biggest weekend in the town the amount of people in around the area who work that weekend is unbelievable...it seems to happen every year..ye need to ye shower of fools and we know ye read this as well

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by Lone Shark »

There's no two ways about it -the situation is utterly indefensible at this stage. Most senior hurling clubs want to play in OCP at least once in the group stages in order to be prepared for the semi-finals, and I don't buy into the logic that St Brendan's Park is any more or less entitled to these games than any other club ground in the county - but that said, there are far too many games being played in O'Connor Park now and for so many clubs that put so much work into their facilities to be ignored is all wrong.

Places like those listed by Plain of the Herbs are all perfectly suited to round robin games, and the value of these games to a club, in monetary, promotional and feelgood terms, is immense. Maybe some clubs are acting the maggot in terms of gate returns, but if they are, then cut them off - don't cut off the whole rest of the county outside Tullamore.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by greenairfield »

Lone shark I don't think anyone here said Birr was entitled to more games than other clubs.
But it is the second biggest grounds in the county after OCP and the way they are been ignored is a disgrace.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by Lone Shark »

greenairfield wrote:Lone shark I don't think anyone here said Birr was entitled to more games than other clubs.
But it is the second biggest grounds in the county after OCP and the way they are been ignored is a disgrace.
My point was that this is not about Birr not getting games - Birr has actually hosted one game this year and on average, it would be logical that if there are twelve senior clubs and 30 round robin senior games, then any club that gets two games is doing middling to okay. We have to allow for the fact that there are non-senior home fields such as Crinkill, Rath, Carrig and Clara that are all well suited to taking games as well. The point is that O'Connor Park is getting far too many matches. Comments like these below appeared to make it about Birr, when in fact it's no more about Birr than it is about any hurling club in Offaly, with the exception of Tullamore.
greenairfield wrote:I believe the Birr club held Belmont and Shinrone in the first round.

But for two rounds to pass...and double headers in OCP yet again you would have to wonder will the county board ever learn, the whole county is againSt them and they are throwing more fuel on the fire, things will turn much worse for the CB unless they start playing ball with south Offaly clubs.

You have to feel sorry for the Birr club at this stage the county board are totally trying to show them who is the boss.
frankthetank wrote:Round 3 SHC fixtures are on the Offaly GAA website.

Again no fixtures for St Brendan's Park but 3 for O'Connor Park and 2 for Banagher. The fixtures secretary should be ashamed that after 3 rounds of SHC (18 games) there still wont have been one game played in Birr. Im not from the Birr club but I find this shocking.

Double headers in Birr are a far more attractive proposition than double headers in Tullamore. I was at the double header in OCP last weekend and it was dead. Kilcoramac and Banagher in Birr would at least create some bit of an atmosphere.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by suckindiesel »

every single game in the laois senior hurling and football championships for the past 3 years and for this year as well have been and will be played exclusively at o moore park. Reasons?

1- the county board own the ground and man the gate, there has been a perception that other hosting clubs may be fiddling gates.
2- all the clubs want to play at the main stadium.
3- you create plenty of double headers and the paying customers can be charged 15 euros for 2 as opposed to 10 euros at another venue hosted one game, enticing more to come and better value....that's the theory.

I assume that offaly gaa board are the owners of o connor park(shoot me if I am wrong), and as they are the entity charged with generating the finance for the counties endeavours, it is their right to stage the games where they want.

from a geographical basis, staging a number of the senior offaly club championship games at birr, banagher, clara or elsewhere, may make perfect sense to supporters. On the other hand, the teams themselves if they view themselves as contenders may actually prefer to play at o connor park and get in practice for the business end of the championship.
the KK v Rynaghs games last weekend was arguably the most interesting clash of the group series to date....birr might have been as handy as OCP...but if I managed either side, I would have wanted the game played at OCP, as it could realistically have been a trial for a semi final or final....and playing it at the knockout venue, is of more benefit.

in laois and many other counties, the club pitches are now only used for non senior club competitions and former hosting clubs and spectators are going to have to get used to it, that is the trend.

I don't know mary the lady who is your fixtures secretary from adam, but having once wasted up to 5 years of my life sitting on the laois fixtures committee, I would suggest cheap shots are nasty, whingers complaining about a "lady" setting a match at a venue because it has a warm press room are ignoranmuses.........most times games end up being set at venues that the clubs themselves demand.


finally on the topic of OY Hurling Cship.............no amount of tinkering will improve the championship if you continue with a 12 team format, including 4 no hopers in their ranks.....if you want a real senior championship reduce to 8 and copy the laois template(the only thing we have right in the county at the moment).....I guess the pride of 3 or 4 clubs in their "senior" status will halt the aforementioned formula being implemented in OY.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

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suckindiesel wrote:every single game in the laois senior hurling and football championships for the past 3 years and for this year as well have been and will be played exclusively at o moore park. Reasons?

1- the county board own the ground and man the gate, there has been a perception that other hosting clubs may be fiddling gates.
2- all the clubs want to play at the main stadium.
3- you create plenty of double headers and the paying customers can be charged 15 euros for 2 as opposed to 10 euros at another venue hosted one game, enticing more to come and better value....that's the theory.

I assume that offaly gaa board are the owners of o connor park(shoot me if I am wrong), and as they are the entity charged with generating the finance for the counties endeavours, it is their right to stage the games where they want.

from a geographical basis, staging a number of the senior offaly club championship games at birr, banagher, clara or elsewhere, may make perfect sense to supporters. On the other hand, the teams themselves if they view themselves as contenders may actually prefer to play at o connor park and get in practice for the business end of the championship.
the KK v Rynaghs games last weekend was arguably the most interesting clash of the group series to date....birr might have been as handy as OCP...but if I managed either side, I would have wanted the game played at OCP, as it could realistically have been a trial for a semi final or final....and playing it at the knockout venue, is of more benefit.

in laois and many other counties, the club pitches are now only used for non senior club competitions and former hosting clubs and spectators are going to have to get used to it, that is the trend.

I don't know mary the lady who is your fixtures secretary from adam, but having once wasted up to 5 years of my life sitting on the laois fixtures committee, I would suggest cheap shots are nasty, whingers complaining about a "lady" setting a match at a venue because it has a warm press room are ignoranmuses.........most times games end up being set at venues that the clubs themselves demand.


finally on the topic of OY Hurling Cship.............no amount of tinkering will improve the championship if you continue with a 12 team format, including 4 no hopers in their ranks.....if you want a real senior championship reduce to 8 and copy the laois template(the only thing we have right in the county at the moment).....I guess the pride of 3 or 4 clubs in their "senior" status will halt the aforementioned formula being implemented in OY.
A few different points here, which I'll take in no particular order.

(1) Tullamore may look central when you look at a map of Offaly, but in hurling terms, it isn't really. Now I don't buy into this logic that travelling forty minutes to watch your club or county play is some big imposition, however having to do it over and over, with all your opponent's fans travelling the same direction along the road as you, gets tiresome. Rightly or wrongly, you expect that the majority of your county's league/leinster/All Ireland qualifier games will be played in the county ground - however Laois is highly unusual in the way they play everything, club and county, at OMP. That's not what people expect at club level. I will say that in many counties, they have a small handful of grounds that get to host senior club games, perhaps a half a dozen. I wouldn't agree with that myself, and in general, there is no reason why 75% of the club grounds in Offaly couldn't host a senior game if needed.
(2) If clubs are perceived to be fiddling gates, then crack down on it. Make sure all returns are available to all club secretaries in the county - that way if a club gets in the habit of sending back gates for 100 people when there were clearly three times that at the match, they won't have a leg to stand on and you can be sure that none of the others will want to concede a competitive advantage. I do however have a problem with simply assuming that fiddling will happen, and you're as well off to put the games out of harm's way. Likewise, if the gates for the games at OCP are better than those at other grounds, then I don't understand why the county board isn't singing that from on high.
(3) If Laois clubs want to play at the main stadium, then that is their right - Laois games should be organised in keeping with the wishes of the clubs in the county, that's just basic sense. However that same desire isn't here, at least not to play ALL games in OCP. Until things change a lot, the county final is going to be in Tullamore and thus the semi-finals will be too. However it's not unreasonable to say to clubs at the start of the year - how often would you like to play at HQ during the round robin stages? Most would answer once or so, I'm guessing.
(4) Double headers are at their most attractive when people have another local club to keep an eye on. Take next Saturday evening - you have Shamrocks vs Tullamore, and Rynaghs vs Shinrone. They're in opposite groups, and there are feck all people who would take a keen interest in clubs from both of those games. Now if you have a double header of Lusmagh vs Belmont, followed by Rynaghs vs Brosna Gaels, that's different. Coolderry vs Clareen followed by KK vs Kinnitty - I'd wager 80% of the crowd would make sure to take in both, and neutrals from places like Birr or Rath would toddle along as well. I take your point with double headers, but you've got to have a bit of sense about it. All politics is local - for example if I told my Dad (Ferbane as well) I was going to see Edenderry vs Rhode, the two best teams in the county - he'd have no interest. If I was going out the road to Doon to watch Shannonbridge playing Erin Rovers, he'd be along in a shot. Lots of people are like that.
(5) This isn't about victimising Mary Dunne, who would be one the most loyal and committed servants to Offaly GAA that ever was - she certainly wouldn't be going on a solo run on something like this. There clearly is a policy here, and if there is, it should be explained clearly what it is, and why. I'm not ruling out that there's more to this than meets the eye - but a little bit of light would be no harm.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Laois! Lecturing Offaly on how to run their club championships.

A few years ago I did a comparison of the Offaly and Laois County Board accounts. It related to the counties’ respective 2013 accounts (for I carried out the exercise some time in in 2014). The Offaly county board’s gate receipts for all domestic matches other than Senior semi-finals and finals were €214k while Laois’ were €189k. This relates to hurling and football combined. When Senior semi-finals and finals are included, Offaly’s total for the year was €328k while Laois’ were €285k.

Suckindiesel also makes a point that double headers in Leix are €15 while single matches are €10. This contrasts with Offaly where double headers are €10 with standalone Senior fixtures being €6, I believe. Now, this might have changed in Leix since 2013 (the year those accounts I compared above refer to) but it looks to me like the Leix scene is not as spectator friendly as ours.

Different counties have different policies for their venues. In 2015, Kilkenny played 24 of the 30 Senior hurling league fixtures (which feeds into the Senior championship) at venues other than Nowlan Park. In 2014 it was 27 out of 30. Perhaps the Leix crowd would like to go to Kilkenny and give them a piece of their brilliant minds. Holy God, they were playin' hurlin' matches in Freshford and Hugginstown and Ballyraggett and Jenkinstown and Thomastown and Callan and promoting the game around the county, isn't it shockin'! Galway play their Senior hurling group matches in Ballinasloe, Loughrea and Athenry, with the odd match involving Liam Mellowes, Castlegar or Moycullen going to Pearse Stadium.

Perhaps Laois could be taking a look at how we run our club hurling affairs instead?
suckindiesel wrote:every single game in the laois senior hurling and football championships for the past 3 years and for this year as well have been and will be played exclusively at o moore park. Reasons?

1- the county board own the ground and man the gate, there has been a perception that other hosting clubs may be fiddling gates.
2- all the clubs want to play at the main stadium.
3- you create plenty of double headers and the paying customers can be charged 15 euros for 2 as opposed to 10 euros at another venue hosted one game, enticing more to come and better value....that's the theory.

I assume that offaly gaa board are the owners of o connor park(shoot me if I am wrong), and as they are the entity charged with generating the finance for the counties endeavours, it is their right to stage the games where they want.

from a geographical basis, staging a number of the senior offaly club championship games at birr, banagher, clara or elsewhere, may make perfect sense to supporters. On the other hand, the teams themselves if they view themselves as contenders may actually prefer to play at o connor park and get in practice for the business end of the championship.
the KK v Rynaghs games last weekend was arguably the most interesting clash of the group series to date....birr might have been as handy as OCP...but if I managed either side, I would have wanted the game played at OCP, as it could realistically have been a trial for a semi final or final....and playing it at the knockout venue, is of more benefit.

in laois and many other counties, the club pitches are now only used for non senior club competitions and former hosting clubs and spectators are going to have to get used to it, that is the trend.

I don't know mary the lady who is your fixtures secretary from adam, but having once wasted up to 5 years of my life sitting on the laois fixtures committee, I would suggest cheap shots are nasty, whingers complaining about a "lady" setting a match at a venue because it has a warm press room are ignoranmuses.........most times games end up being set at venues that the clubs themselves demand.


finally on the topic of OY Hurling Cship.............no amount of tinkering will improve the championship if you continue with a 12 team format, including 4 no hopers in their ranks.....if you want a real senior championship reduce to 8 and copy the laois template(the only thing we have right in the county at the moment).....I guess the pride of 3 or 4 clubs in their "senior" status will halt the aforementioned formula being implemented in OY.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by suckindiesel »

LS & POTH,
sport and often sports administration is frequently about opinions and differing opinions. I never implied that the laois model was perfect, merely pointed out reasons why a central base can be the choice of county executives/ fixtures committees.

I recommend, if you have the conviction of belief that a greater spread of venues is needed, then, why not put your name forward at the next county convention, get yourself on the executive and the fixtures committee, then you would be in a position to act. Or alternatively, put a motion down to convention, tieing in each team having to play at least one/two group games outside of OCP.

on the greater subject of sports attendance, all sports outside of marquee events are hitting record low gates....the LOI soccer is on its knees, the attendances at the football qualifiers have been pathetic(save for the two games in Castlebar), golf clubs are struggling big time due to the drop in membership(clubs outside greater Dublin), there are hardly 100 paying customers at a regular race meetings(outside of the festivals), club rugby(the div 1,2 national league stuff) have dreadful attendances. Ireland apparently has a rise in population according to Census 2016, but they are no longer attending live sport in numbers....addressing this issue may be linked to the survival of certain elements within various sports.

I will agree wholeheartedly with the argument that a local derby at a smaller local pitch has far more atmosphere and crack, than the same two teams lining out in OCP where the sheer size of the stadium almost hollows out the crack, a thousand people can look like nothing in OCP, the same attendance level would bring greater flavour at a smaller more compact venue.

There is no solution that will satisfy all. If you want to get some answers, why don't some of the club delegates who contribute to this forum, stand up at the county convention and seek some answers from the fixtures committee re their policy of game placement...once they declare their hand, then you can look at ways of altering this policy.


anyway.......who is going to win the OY Senior Hurling....have KK the hunger back, or are they vulnerable an can a team with younger fresher legs like Rynaghs or Birr turn them over?.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by Toxicity234 »

Ok Lads the mid summer madness is here again.
Lets start at the top.
The games from last weekend. All teams had players missing. Lusmagh are a fine team but Small pick and if there missing a few it show up big time. Coolderry again missing some leaders and the result show that. I didn't see the ballinmere team.
Shamrock are a team that are young and someday the games get away from them.

The games i made it to:
Clareen half back line were outstanding Sean Coughlan i was told a few weeks ago there he has no pace but who need pace when you always in the correct position. Tom Carroll was very good but his shot selection was poor at time, taking on stuff when players were in better positions but apart from that he was very good.Physically and Hard working.

KIlcormac/Killoughey vs St. Rynagh's. Kilcormac/Killoughey won this match in the 1st 20 mins against the wind. There won the battle and Rynagh's got into the game until just before half time but the game was over at this stage. Rynagh's did well against the wind and after the sending off i thought they pushed on but it never happened. Again Half back lines physical very strong. Brian Leonard and Aidian Tracey were outstanding for both teams they strangled the game.
Both side missing loads of players so don't read to much into the games last weekend.

All the talk of the structure is very interesting. One thing I got for the weekend games was how rusty the players are.
We can talk all day about having completive games(and god know i would love to see good games) but how can we have competitive game when the club players are playing non competitive games for the best months of the year.
We need to run the competitive game from April to September and get the 180 players that are not playing with the county playing game. I think we need to run the club championship without the inter county players and come up with a way to given the clubs(the one with 4 or 5 on the county panel) a back door to play off but who that would work is tough to know.

And finally. I just wanted to say congrats to Clara on a good win over Drumcullen last weekend.
“Common sense is not so common.”

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by kaiserchief »

Sean Coughlan and Aidan Treacy, I taught both where excellent at the weekend. Tom Carroll was also very good but as said was headless with the ball.

A championship without county players will never work.

A suggestion might be to play a 12 team league without county players (county players have to play at least 6 games). Everyone plays each other, top 4 teams into quarter final and bottom 8 into play off where team #5 would play team #12 in knockout hurling.

I know it would be different but players would get loads of hurling. I dont know it might be an issue for different reasons.

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by Toxicity234 »

Friday 29th Jul 2016
Birr(---)v(---)Seir Kieran
Senior Hurling Championship Group 1 Round 3
Banagher 7:30 PM

Cracking game this evening. Birr and Kieran are both in good form so both will be up for this game.
Head on the block, I go for Birr to win this by a few points.
It's a battle of the half forwards and half backs. Kieran half back is stronger than the Birr half back line but the Birr half forwards are a bit better than the Kieran half forwards line. ( going on how they line out last time).
Rory Hanniffy to be the difference in a 2 point win.


Belmont GAA(---)v(---)Kilcormac-Killoughey
Senior Hurling Championship Group 2 Round 3
O Connor Park, Tullamore 7:30 PM
If Belmont really believe they can win this game they can have a really craic at Kilcormac Killoughey. but let be honest here. Kilcormac Killoughey are tickling along nicely. They deal with the 2nd best team in Offaly the last day without getting out of one gear. i really hope we see a good game but i fear Kilcormac killoughey will just push pass Belmont in 2nd gear. I really have great time for the Damien and Mark Egan I think there undervalued in Offaly. If these lad were from from Birr or Clareen they have lads raving about them. Kilcormac Killoughey on 6.

Ballinamere(---)v(---)Lusmagh GAA
Senior Hurling Championship Group 2 Round 3
Rath 7:30 PM
It's a tough one to call cause both team are missing so many. I going to go for a draw.

Saturday 30th Jul 2016
Na Seamróga(---)v(---)Tullamore/An Tulach Mhór
Senior Hurling Championship Group 1 Round 3
O Connor Park, Tullamore 5:30 PM
Tullamore should have a bit too much for Shamrock from what i've seen. Tullamore by 3 points.


Shinrone(---)v(---)St Rynagh's Hurling Club
Senior Hurling Championship Group 2 Round 3
O Connor Park, Tullamore 7:00 PM
to me this is the game of the weekend. Rynagh set up this year is much better. Tracey at centre back is a class act. Connelly in Midfield is a class midfielder on the ball but doesn't always protect his half back the way he should. I bit of work with a good positional coach and he be a diamond.
Shinrone have class hurlers all over the field but they need to grow into men and that will take an another year at least.
Rynagh by 5.


Sunday 31st Jul 2016
Coolderry(---)v(---)Kinnitty
Senior Hurling Championship Group 1 Round 3
Banagher 12:00 PM
Working untill 3am sunday morning but getting up to watch this game. Kinnitty again have good hurlers but young Coolderry miss so many. Kinnitty are well worth a punt. Draw.
“Common sense is not so common.”

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Re: Offaly Club Hurling C'ship 2016

Post by manfromdelmonte »

A simple solution for the gates at club grounds, is that the county board send one person to monitor the gates - they bring tokens/tickets which are given out to each adult entering who pays in, and then have that same person inside the gate with a clicker to count adults entering the ground.
if there's a huge discrepancy between the tickets sold and the clicker, then something is up.

Meath have a good season club pass which entitles you to admission to all club games. It has your name on it and you have to use it with ID.
And when they introduced it, the takings for club games actually went up! Apparently a lot of people bought them as presents for other people!

It is unfair on clubs. I would prefer to travel to local games rather than OCP. Better atmosphere and you are more likely to bump into someone you know and have the chat
only the best...

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