Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

A superb piece, Jimbob. Well thought out and equally well written.

I don't have any arguments either. For balance I suppose I should point out the S&C stuff the U17 hurlers did at Athlone RTC last year. Other hand, I'm aware of grumbling by parents and others on time spent doing S&C work that could have been spent doing ground hurling drills (God help us!).

I think the single biggest problem is the lack of will to change. And that applies to the grassroots as much as anyone else. But brilliant piece.
jimbob17 wrote:While there is an element of positivity about our hurlers this year, there are bigger issues at play. I know its been discussed previously but its very relevant. We are in the position now in hurling because on one reason alone. Our underage hurling structures have been mismanaged for years - and have always been. Other counties have moved with the times. We have few decent coaches in our county working at youth level. I'd say there are countless clubs in Kilkenny Wexford and Dublin with higher numbers of decent coaches than we have in our whole county. There is an apathy towards improving coaching standards in the county and we as a county are paying the price.

We have an amount of average players - nobody really stands out in club championships- not like they used to at least. I'd say at least 50 lads have played league or championship in the last 3 years. County lads dont stand out any more in club level - From fitness point of view alone they should be standing out. That's not reflective of an elite level set up.

Lads waltz from minor into senior panel and then whinge when they dont get to play. Minors and U21 have done nothing in the last 10-12 years. Cant remember them even beating a wexford or Dublin and lose regularly to "lesser" counties. We are in disarray. Very often, lads arent treated right at underage and by the time they get to adult level, they just couldnt be arsed being involved in another "joke set up" as has often been the case. There is no prestige in being involved in Offaly hurling.

Standards and expectations are set very low and we get our just rewards. We are getting little or none through to play Fitzgibbon hurling - a significant bridge to inter county senior. Lads that wouldnt get near a fitzgibbon team in a WIT, UCC or UL are making our senior panel. Kildare Westmeath Carlow and Laois are outperforming us regarding Fitzgibbon numbers of late.

Skillful, tricky lads come through that don't have the speed or power, yet they are not given the tools to improve this area. Strong powerful lads come through that don't have the skills and we don't have the knowledge to impart how to develop these. What are the county board doing with regard to developing lads physically for county level. I know of other counties that have employed people to manage underage strength and conditioning programmes. If we were anyway smart, we should be getting good young sport science people involved and drive the thing from the bottom up.

I was at a level 1 coaching course there 2 yrs ago and some clubs had nobody in doing them. They were good courses and I learned a bit but there were lads there who really opened my eyes about our dearth of coaching practice. I know everyone is there to learn and improve and it was great they were there but some of the stories relayed were horrific - lads talkin about doing laps etc, horrendous stuff . There is another level 2 course that I intend to do in the next while and was talking lately to someone in Kilkenny from an intermediate club about it. He said that 4 or 5 from his club alone has a level 2 course done and at least 40 have the level 1 done. there is huge appetite for doing the whole coaching thing right down there and he reckoned Wexford werent too far off them in what they were at. I'd say Dublin are up there too......

He also that said nobody would get near being involved with a county team at any level without having a level 2 course or at least level 1 with a lot of experience at playing and coaching at adult club level. I doubt thats the case in Offaly where they are struggling to get anyone in some ages. He was surprised when i told him what was going on in Offaly with little appetite for attending the courses and little demand for them. Sure its no wonder we are where we are. We are not getting our heroes of yore to contribute anything. Now some might not be brilliant but there are good lads there that need to be tapped into. It seems Birr are on the right track again and this is badly needed as they have produced very little for us for the last few years.

Meanwhile, we go to play likes of Clare, Limerick and wexford - counties we should be able to compete with at the very least and get trimming after trimming. Last year was hugely embarassing. Eamon Kelly and his crew will ship some heavy water but I cant help thinking that it is worse its going to get. Laoise have gone and built their ship from the bottom up. We might sneak a win over them short term, but longer term, they are way ahead of us at the moment.

We will probably stay up but the scary thing will be how far we are off the Clares and Limericks. Lets hope that bridge can be closed with hard work but it'll take more than that if its to be sustained longer term.......
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

ah lethimoutwithit
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by ah lethimoutwithit »

"There is an apathy towards improving coaching standards in the county and we as a county are paying the price."

Not necessarily from the county board, but by the clubs and the coaches in encouraging their attendance at coaching courses and workshops.

ah lethimoutwithit
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by ah lethimoutwithit »

Great piece Jimbo....


Really does show why we have gotten to where we are.
As a coach meself and having completed Level 1 and some other courses I struggle to think how you would survive without that type of help.

We have a real responsibility to ensure that we have the right setups in place for our players to come into in order to allow them to learn the game , enjoy the game and develop to be the best they can be!

substandard
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by substandard »

This is more like it- at last!!
I mean a series of posts that acknowledge reality, without either wallowing in misery, lashing out blindly at all generalisations, and not resorting to the blame game or falling into squabbling over petty which clubs or venues are right and which is wrong.
It's going to take a mighty, concerted and sustained effort across all sectors to get Offaly hurling back to a top 4 or 5 level. Clubs, schools, academies, development squads, county teams- all are cogs in the same engine. If one cog is out of sync or broken, then sooner or later they will all be damaged.
I would imagine there isn't an individual that goes out to coach a team from u6 up to senior that goes out with the intention of purposefully misleading the team with the intention of dragging them down. If this accusation was made to any coach in the county, you can imagine what the reaction would be.
But if all these coaches were asked to describe what do they bring to the table, would they be able to? Or if they were asked what makes them a good coach, would they be able to answer?
I remember a priest at home at mass one time asking if being a good Catholic was a crime and if we were accused, would there be enough evidence to convict us?

By the same token, if being a good hurling coach was a crime, how many in your club, or in Offaly, would be indicted?
How many clubs have lads over underage teams that are blatantly unsuitable for constructively coaching young players, but they are there because there's no-one else to do it? Or because they're supposedly a big noise in the club, but no-one in their right minds would let them next nor near the senior team, so to placate them, they're thrown in with the u14s and told there's no-one else but them could do it? Or is there a clique that decide that such and such a group have potential, so we'll take them, and leave the duff outfit to that gobshite with all his coaching qualifications so he can be sneered at when that group is seen to be going nowhere?

People say it's a lack of pride in the players that has Offaly where it is.
But too much pride in the wrong places is no help either...

ah lethimoutwithit
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by ah lethimoutwithit »

That whole element about coaches and their pride is another thing too, I mean you see it regularly in certain clubs where lads want to get involved only with the team that their son is on, coaches only want to get involved in teams that have a good chance of winning...but I certain amount of that is human nature.

Clubs need to try and widen the net though and especially at this time of the year, when you have your coaches in place you should be looking at targeting a few new guys to do some of the courses without the pressure of having to get involved, and then next year or the year after they can get involved without the pressure of having to courses at the same time. Gradually you get to the stage where the guy who only wants to help out because "sure don't I have to bring the young fella anyway" can be politely told that your club has moved on from that.

If we can get to that stage then we can begin to believe that we are heading down the right track. I am not saying that parents cant get involved with their own children, there are many who do this in the right way, but there are some many who are far to comfortable in these positions.

kingscounty
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by kingscounty »

Best of luck to Offaly v Limerick this week end , huge game a good result here would be big boost for this group of players. We need to make home advantage count and that means supporters getting out to support the team . Great to have young Kiely back in the mix , we need to throw everything at Limerick from the get go and not let them settle into the game , Kerry let them build a big lead had this not happened it could have went in Kerry's favour . Here's hoping for a good weekend Offaly 2-14 Limerick 1-16 !

sam88885a
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by sam88885a »

Lads i agree with most of what yer saying , county hurlers dont stand out at club level .
its a reflection of very very poor managment at senior level over a number of years and players been picked at county level because they do the training not because they are talented hurlers .

last year one player whom i wont name got game time for offaly under B Whelahan when he really isnt good enough to make a decent club team .
in 2014 3 players that had done the winter training with the county ,left the panel , came back to the club and had to do extra work to come up to club level.

rember under e creagan p temple was dropped after having a good league to bring back b whelahan .

it was totaly unfair on p temple but b whelahan was vital to build that team around .

This year E Kelly has most of the best guys which is positive but he has lost a few and he seem very intent on giving those guys a dig in every interview saying those guys thought they could get away with what they always did rather that sitting back and seeing how the preform at club level .
They view is he is digging at certain kk lads.
kk will be intresting this year they have a top class coach in m fogorty .
When they come up against st rynagh who have so many" Elite " guys doing county training and who play a " modern " style of hurling . .
They question is not who has the training done but who has the talent , they better style of hurling and they better men in the heat of battle .
County managment has been terrible at all levels for years , this year against laois at least offaly had spirit and workrate .
when we are organised we can still bet laois and most of the current lads should be around for the next 5 years .

Underage coaching needs to improve hugely because i seem a chairman of hurling club refuse to go to do hurling coaching because he didnt need it and he said he was a far better hurler in his day than those guys running the coarse so what could they teach him .

To me there is where we have a big problem .Lads whose pride wont allow them to learn .
In dublin a management team to move up from u14 u 16 etc with a team so the team and managment both get a chance to develop over 5 or 6 years ,Is that a decent idea .
Start at u 14 put a proper managment team in place with their coaching coarses done and let them develop a team over 5 or 6 years , they could log guys level of skills etc and develope them over time instead of starting from scratch every year.

sam88885a
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by sam88885a »

Lads i agree with most of what yer saying , county hurlers dont stand out at club level .
its a reflection of very very poor managment at senior level over a number of years and players been picked at county level because they do the training not because they are talented hurlers .

last year one player whom i wont name got game time for offaly under B Whelahan when he really isnt good enough to make a decent club team .
in 2014 3 players that had done the winter training with the county ,left the panel , came back to the club and had to do extra work to come up to club level.

rember under e creagan p temple was dropped after having a good league to bring back b whelahan .

it was totaly unfair on p temple but b whelahan was vital to build that team around .


kk will be intresting this year they have a top class coach in m fogorty .
When they come up against st rynagh who have so many" Elite " guys doing county training and who play a " modern " style of hurling . .
They question is not who has the training done but who has the talent , they better style of hurling and they better men in the heat of battle .
County managment has been terrible at all levels for years , this year against laois at least offaly had spirit and workrate .
when we are organised we can still bet laois and most of the current lads should be around for the next 5 years .

Underage coaching needs to improve hugely because i seem a chairman of hurling club refuse to go to do hurling coaching because he didnt need it and he said he was a far better hurler in his day than those guys running the coarse so what could they teach him .

To me there is where we have a big problem .Lads whose pride wont allow them to learn .
In dublin a management team to move up from u14 u 16 etc with a team so the team and managment both get a chance to develop over 5 or 6 years ,Is that a decent idea .
Start at u 14 put a proper managment team in place with their coaching coarses done and let them develop a team over 5 or 6 years , they could log guys level of skills etc and develope them over time instead of starting from scratch every year.
finally it great to hear c kiely is back on board that good managment by e kelly ,it would be great if he could get e nolan and s coughlan on board too .
we have the best panel in years most guys under 25 e nolan and s coughlan are of that generation too ,pity but i think E Kelly is doing a decent job.

ryot
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by ryot »

kingscounty wrote: . Great to have young Kiely back in the mix
First I heard,,,,,, brilliant he is back.......... and I'm not KK !!!!!!!!

ryot
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by ryot »

sam88885a wrote:Lads i agree with most of what yer saying , county hurlers dont stand out at club level .
its a reflection of very very poor managment at senior level over a number of years and players been picked at county level because they do the training not because they are talented hurlers .
SAM: Ur all over the place in that post but one thing::::::::: Lads who are not prepared to train should not be picked to play county...

It has been a joke for people like Loughnane that Offaly had lads playing that were far from the fitness level needed for county and advocating for lads to be picked on talent, without traning, is just crazy.....

sam88885a
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by sam88885a »

my point is there is something wrong if guys that do all the training y are still behind guys in their own clubs who are fitter stronger and better hurlers .
yes lads have to train but what the point if the basic talent and skill in not there and if they training they do is not hugely improving there fitness and hurling .
they feeling from clubs over the last few years that guys that went to the county came back worse players

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Seeing as that episode occurred 21 years ago, for the benefit of readers under 30 years old, would you care to enlighten them?
sam88885a wrote:rember under e creagan p temple was dropped after having a good league to bring back b whelahan .

it was totaly unfair on p temple but b whelahan was vital to build that team around .
ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz!
sam88885a wrote: kk will be intresting this year they have a top class coach in m fogorty .
When they come up against st rynagh who have so many" Elite " guys doing county training and who play a " modern " style of hurling . .
They question is not who has the training done but who has the talent , they better style of hurling and they better men in the heat of battle .
County managment has been terrible at all levels for years , this year against laois at least offaly had spirit and workrate .
when we are organised we can still bet laois and most of the current lads should be around for the next 5 years .

Underage coaching needs to improve hugely because i seem a chairman of hurling club refuse to go to do hurling coaching because he didnt need it and he said he was a far better hurler in his day than those guys running the coarse so what could they teach him .

To me there is where we have a big problem .Lads whose pride wont allow them to learn .
In dublin a management team to move up from u14 u 16 etc with a team so the team and managment both get a chance to develop over 5 or 6 years ,Is that a decent idea .
Start at u 14 put a proper managment team in place with their coaching coarses done and let them develop a team over 5 or 6 years , they could log guys level of skills etc and develope them over time instead of starting from scratch every year.
finally it great to hear c kiely is back on board that good managment by e kelly ,it would be great if he could get e nolan and s coughlan on board too .
we have the best panel in years most guys under 25 e nolan and s coughlan are of that generation too ,pity but i think E Kelly is doing a decent job.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Toxicity234
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Toxicity234 »

Team name for sunday.

James Dempsey.
Niall Wynne
Chris Mc Donald.
Paddy Rigney
Pat Camon
Conor Doughan
Sean Gardiner
Shane Kinsella
Dermot Shortt
Sean Ryan
Colin Egan
Paddy Murphy
Shane Dooley
Joseph Bergin
James Mulrooney.
“Common sense is not so common.”

Killeighman
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Killeighman »

I'm a bit baffled about the selection of Dermot Shortt at midfield. Will we see him go to a sweeper role and Sean Ryan fall back into midfield?

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

At this stage the only thing more incredulous than a politician's promise is a GAA selection.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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