2016 Championship

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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby Bord na Mona man » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:18 pm

greenairfield wrote:On a separate point Offaly v Kilkenny in 2016 in the home of hurling what a draw for the people of Birr and all the other clubs who wants hurling brought home.

Whatever about the other merits of hurling in Birr, this kind of shyte hardly wins people over.
And we mock Tipperary for their delusional 'home of hurling' pretensions.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby Wing Back » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:51 pm

Just seen the Walsh Cup fixtures were released. Offaly have been drawn in a group with DIT and Kilkenny, both home fixtures.

I'm a little annoyed we drew the short straw and only have 3 teams in the group compared to the others who all have 4. GMIT are missing this year I noticed which is a shame as they would have completed the full compliment for our own group.

We play DIT first on the 3rd of January,
Then no fixture on the 10th of January as DIT are playing Kilkenny.
And finally playing Kilkenny on the 17th of January.

It's the 1st time I can remember Offaly playing on the 1st Sunday of the year. I think with the games being moved back to SBP from OCP a lot of things will be in focus even more than they normally are.

Really looking forward to it.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby joe bloggs » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:27 pm

bracknaghboy wrote:
first_touch wrote: in a tight game home advantage is diluted in OCP.


How?


It doesn't matter what sport in the world you examine, home advantage counts. What makes it count is when the players feed off the atmosphere in the ground. In a tight game the atmosphere builds, but in a half empty ground that sense of atmosphere is diluted. A crowd of 4k is lost in OCP with its capacity, like Croke Park for half the summer. Wait till you see the buzz of a packed Nolan Park when the Dubs arrive. However a crowd of 4k in SBP will generate a lot more of an atmosphere which for some unfathomable reason, teams will feed off. I am not talking about tradition winning games, I'm just stating a fact that is universal in all sports.

By the way Bracknaghboy, you never answered my question, when were you last in SBP?
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby greenairfield » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:23 pm

Birr were simply trying to keep everyone happy Kevin. If Birr turned down the Offaly training everyone would be giving out saying we are turning down games/ training.
You also mention about the heart of Offaly hurling etc you find all that rubbish...why has Eamon Kelly asked to train in Birr?from what I hear he wants hurling back down the right end of the county.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby Sharp Eye » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:54 pm

Lone Shark wrote:But even if I take your comment at face value, I'm still baffled - why in the name of jaysus would you host a county training session at this time of year the day before your ground is due to host an All Ireland club semi-final? Of course it's going to be cut up, what else was going to happen on a wet day in November?!?


O'Connor Park must be right! They allow No Training on the Ground even in summertime! Ask Joe Dooley. Pitches in South West Offaly who provide their facilities to Offaly Hurling Panels should know that this will result in them not hosting any decent games.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby Lone Shark » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:05 pm

greenairfield wrote:Birr were simply trying to keep everyone happy Kevin. If Birr turned down the Offaly training everyone would be giving out saying we are turning down games/ training.
You also mention about the heart of Offaly hurling etc you find all that rubbish...why has Eamon Kelly asked to train in Birr?from what I hear he wants hurling back down the right end of the county.


I don't agree that people would give out because ye were turning down an Offaly session - it's basic good manners to honour whatever bookings ye might have, and if the camogie association had an All Ireland semi-final booked in, I'd imagine that steps should be taken to give that fixture the best possible chance of happening. To use a comparison, as a freelance journalist I'd have plenty of very regular clients, but if I take a booking from someone else and one of my regulars calls to ask me to be somewhere else, I'm not going to just go back on my word. SBP was one of only two grounds in South Offaly that had anything going on last weekend, so there were plenty of other options for the Offaly panel. Also, it's par for the course at this time of year to struggle to get a venue - no club would be expected to make their field available at all times, much less one that had another national fixture scheduled the next day.

By the way, if drainage isn't an issue, why was the refixture of the camogie game moved out of Birr as well?

As for Eamon Kelly's view, I've no idea why he chose to say that, and I'll certainly ask him the question when I get around to doing an interview with him for the Indo in the next few weeks. However training is usually a function of what suits the people you're working with, and if he's picked Birr then I'm sure that's because it's a good location for the players and backroom team, given where they all live/work/study. That has nothing to do with where games are played though. Athlone Town soccer trained in Dublin during the week for the last few years, but I don't think anybody is realistically suggesting that they should play games in Dalymount or Inchicore.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby greenairfield » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:53 pm

Kevin I do drive down to St.Brendans park 2/3 times a week and do a walk of the field and what not so for the 3rd time I can asure you there is no drainage issues in St.Brendans park.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby kingscounty » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:39 am

Home advantage didn't do Bosnia any good tonight now did it ! Oh wait the fog didn't help maybe , you would never get fog like that down in Birr let me tell you ! For 3 years in a row the home of hurling was in KK, Killeigh/kilurin winning a minor A hurling championship, it must kill the likes of you guys to see a bit of growth in hurling throughout the county. Offaly hurling will never improve if this type of scutter continues. I don't care where the games are played il still go and support the players, btw what are the toilet facilities like in birr it's a while since I was down there with all these games in Tullamore, shocking down with that sort of thing .
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby Superstar » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:11 am

Drainage is quite clearly a problem in SBP if they couldn't host the second game a day later! There was no problem with drainage in O'Connor Park last weekend when they hosted Cappincur on Saturday and Cooldeery on the Sunday! Or was the rain heavier in Birr? :shock: :P
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby greenairfield » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:35 am

Are we just gonna slag each other...? No point having a huge stadium with no hurlers to put in it. We were competitive when hurling was in Birr we are now falling off the the edge. The main reason for this was work wasn't been done at underage, but another factor is that we took hurling out of Birr.

So we the hurling people know what's best considering we were the ones involved when we were at the top. So for example are clodiagh gaels minor team really strong or is it that other teams are not up to it... seen them play and other minor teams this year I would say both.

So you can brag about Cliodagh gaels doing well and fair play for improving but offaly hurling is down in the gutter and it was never down there when Birr or Banagher were winning minor titles.

Unlesss hurling comes back we won't improve and all ye guys on this will have something argue about for the next 10 years.

Cheddar plunkett is doing it in laois and ye all have great praise for him.

SBP isn't in the same playing field as OCP when it comes to attendance but it would hold a nice crowd 5,000 + and has good facilities considering it doesnt owe a million like OCP.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby joe bloggs » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:06 pm

kingscounty wrote:Home advantage didn't do Bosnia any good tonight now did it ! Oh wait the fog didn't help maybe , you would never get fog like that down in Birr let me tell you ! For 3 years in a row the home of hurling was in KK, Killeigh/kilurin winning a minor A hurling championship, it must kill the likes of you guys to see a bit of growth in hurling throughout the county. Offaly hurling will never improve if this type of scutter continues. I don't care where the games are played il still go and support the players, btw what are the toilet facilities like in birr it's a while since I was down there with all these games in Tullamore, shocking down with that sort of thing .


I'm delighted to see the emergence of Na Fianna as a force and hope it will be sustained. Mores the pity that hurling hasn't flourished in other parts of the county as it can only help our county progress in the future.

On your point about the result in Bosnia, one result will neither prove nor disprove a theory. Statistical analysis requires a much larger set of events to be accurate. I would point you in the direction of Ulster rugby in the Heineken cup. At home they are one of the more formidable teams in Europe, yet when they travel abroad their record is quite poor.
It is my view that while OCP may be in Offaly, there are many games that due to the size of the attendance our home advantage is being diluted as the large capacity of the stadium impacts on the atmosphere. If we could fill the ground for our home games then it would be fantastic but otherwise we should be using birr for some of our games
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby Lone Shark » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:05 pm

greenairfield wrote:Are we just gonna slag each other...? No point having a huge stadium with no hurlers to put in it. We were competitive when hurling was in Birr we are now falling off the the edge. The main reason for this was work wasn't been done at underage, but another factor is that we took hurling out of Birr.

So we the hurling people know what's best considering we were the ones involved when we were at the top. So for example are clodiagh gaels minor team really strong or is it that other teams are not up to it... seen them play and other minor teams this year I would say both.

So you can brag about Cliodagh gaels doing well and fair play for improving but offaly hurling is down in the gutter and it was never down there when Birr or Banagher were winning minor titles.

Unlesss hurling comes back we won't improve and all ye guys on this will have something argue about for the next 10 years.

Cheddar plunkett is doing it in laois and ye all have great praise for him.

SBP isn't in the same playing field as OCP when it comes to attendance but it would hold a nice crowd 5,000 + and has good facilities considering it doesnt owe a million like OCP.


If I genuinely wanted all hurling games to be played in OCP, I'd be delighted to see Birr advocates posting stuff like this. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that you have no idea how all that sounds. It reads like condescending, holier-than-thou, patronising rubbish and only serves to get peoples backs up. I've no doubt you'll have other people who will clap you on the back and say you're dead right, but right now you're like Donald Trump mopping up support from the extreme right wing in the US presidential race. When it comes to winning over the middle ground, this type of rhetoric turns people away.

greenairfield wrote:So we the hurling people know what's best considering we were the ones involved when we were at the top.


Seriously - think about that comment for a minute and think about how it sounds. I was delighted to hear that the Walsh Cup games were fixed for SBP, but this is the kind of stuff that would turn your stomach.

Yes, Offaly hurling was stronger back in the 80s and 90s, when games were played in SBP. It was also a time when drink driving was unpoliced and smoking in pubs was allowed, but just like where we held our games, that had nothing to do with Offaly's success, it was based on some exceptional players and a very high standard in our club games. Your idea that the field of grass we hurled out home league matches on was a factor is like everything else about this argument - we're just supposed to take it on good faith, with no proper, mathematical evidence.

Two games on two consecutive sundays called off because the pitch wasn't playable, and yet we're supposed to take it on faith that it's draining perfectly.

Still no Slattery report for the ground, and yet we're supposed to take it on faith that it can hold 5,000 people.


As for the home advantage thing, you're correct. One result doesn't prove or disprove your theory. However as you may know, I spent a decade working in odds compilation, with primary responsibility for GAA games. I have studied results, tens of thousands of them in fact. And while there are some famous fixtures in GAA where home advantage tended to be a key factor (Cork vs Tipp, Cork vs Kerry football, Galway vs Mayo football), in the vast majority of cases it wasn't the stadium that was the issue, it was the distance. Meath were one of those counties that had an excellent home record, but when you look only at their local derbies, playing in Páirc Tailteann meant very little. It wasn't because of home advantage, it was because the away team had to travel to play.

There is no doubt that Offaly vs Cork in Birr was always considered a more winnable fixture than Offaly vs Cork in PUC or PUR, but that was only because of the distance. It would have been considered no less winnable in Tullamore. There is no way I would have changed the odds for an Offaly home game if it was moved from Tullamore to Birr or vice versa, or if a Limerick game was moved between Kilmallock and the Gaelic Grounds, or if a Tipp match switched between Thurles and Nenagh. The numbers simply didn't justify it.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby substandard » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:19 pm

Ah yes, you'd know the winter has landed properly- the weather is gone shitty, and the Birr v Tullamore debate is revving up!!
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby Wing Back » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:46 pm

I think this thread is getting a little off topic and most of the latter posts probably belong in another thread. But I'll still give my opinion on what has been posted.

greenairfield wrote:Are we just gonna slag each other...? No point having a huge stadium with no hurlers to put in it. We were competitive when hurling was in Birr we are now falling off the the edge. The main reason for this was work wasn't been done at underage, but another factor is that we took hurling out of Birr.

So we the hurling people know what's best considering we were the ones involved when we were at the top. So for example are Clodiagh Gaels minor team really strong or is it that other teams are not up to it... seen them play and other minor teams this year I would say both.

So you can brag about ClodIagh Gaels doing well and fair play for improving but Offaly hurling is down in the gutter and it was never down there when Birr or Banagher were winning minor titles.

Unlesss hurling comes back we won't improve and all ye guys on this will have something argue about for the next 10 years.

Cheddar plunkett is doing it in laois and ye all have great praise for him.

SBP isn't in the same playing field as OCP when it comes to attendance but it would hold a nice crowd 5,000 + and has good facilities considering it doesnt owe a million like OCP.


I have to say that I agree with the last statement you make here Greenairfield....and think Birr is ideal for all games around this size of attendance which would be all Walsh Cup games, most League games and probably round robin games I'd imagine. After that attendance would be an issue and moving the games to Tullamore for bigger attendances is the logical step. This will be the order of the day hopefully if and when the Slattery report finally comes through and hopefully gives the all clear for Birr and gives an appropriate attendance limit.

But on the flip side of your statement I agree with Lone Shark and that a lot of your statements are very much unfounded and don't do any good for the betterment of Offaly hurling. Clodiagh Gaels winning Minor has nothing to do with weather Offaly play in SBP or not. Your argument about Offaly hurling being in the gutter and that it was never there when St Ryanghs and Birr were winning minor titles is totally unfounded as St Rynaghs won minor in 2007, 2009, 2010. Being honest Offaly hurling was on its knees during those years aswell. Also statements by yourself referring to "We The Hurling People" are ridiculous as I'm one of these hurling people from south Offaly you talk of and I disagree with a number of your arguments for having Offaly hurling games played in Birr. So be careful who you say you represent as your opinion is not the opinion of all hurling people of Offaly.

Now even though I disagree with Your opinions/examples/points on why Offaly games should be played in SBP.....I am very much a supporter of Offaly games being played in SBP again and agree with other reasons why they should be played there.

Lone Shark wrote:
Two games on two consecutive sundays called off because the pitch wasn't playable, and yet we're supposed to take it on faith that it's draining perfectly.

Still no Slattery report for the ground, and yet we're supposed to take it on faith that it can hold 5,000 people.


As for the home advantage thing, you're correct. One result doesn't prove or disprove your theory. However as you may know, I spent a decade working in odds compilation, with primary responsibility for GAA games. I have studied results, tens of thousands of them in fact. And while there are some famous fixtures in GAA where home advantage tended to be a key factor (Cork vs Tipp, Cork vs Kerry football, Galway vs Mayo football), in the vast majority of cases it wasn't the stadium that was the issue, it was the distance. Meath were one of those counties that had an excellent home record, but when you look only at their local derbies, playing in Páirc Tailteann meant very little. It wasn't because of home advantage, it was because the away team had to travel to play.

There is no doubt that Offaly vs Cork in Birr was always considered a more winnable fixture than Offaly vs Cork in PUC or PUR, but that was only because of the distance. It would have been considered no less winnable in Tullamore. There is no way I would have changed the odds for an Offaly home game if it was moved from Tullamore to Birr or vice versa, or if a Limerick game was moved between Kilmallock and the Gaelic Grounds, or if a Tipp match switched between Thurles and Nenagh. The numbers simply didn't justify it.


Lone Shark I have to say I read your posts with interest and for the most part can empatise with your opinions for and against playing in SBP. I'm only a recent poster here but am a long time reader. From my own views of all posts, you appear to be the most active for not supporting games being played in SBP even if you say to the contrary on some occasions. I just wanted to comment on the statement about winnable games and where they are played that you made and how odds are calculated. I can see that it should not make a difference in the vast majority of cases. But in the compilation of odds for Bookmakers etc a home draw in any sport makes a difference and odds are adjusted to reflect this. The main reason that this is the case is because as you mention travel for some of the away teams but wheather you admit it or not Lone Shark the home support and atmosphere is a factor also. Looking at the league this year all our home games were lost in OCP against Wexford, Waterford and Tipperary, with all of our away games won against Limerick, Laois and Antrim. Granted the quality of opposition played in OCP was probably a lot tougher. But being honest about it the paltry attendnce numbers and very tame atmosphere was something that would not encourage any home team and would not intimidate any away team. Which I always felt was the case in SBP. If a team in any sport continuously loses all away games and fails to perform then the bookmakers do take this into account in calculating odds. I know its unusual but the opposite seemed to be the case for Offaly hurling this year in Tullamore by losing all their home games and.......calling a spade a spade....... they failed to be competitive in any of them. As we both said in the vast majority of cases it should not make a difference where the game is played when a home fixture.....but maybe Offaly hurling's case is not in the vast majority. I know that trying to justify that is not possible but I think it should be considered, however trivial it may sound.

But in my own opinion I think by playing games in SBP it will definitely bring more people to our home games in some of the early hurling fixtures in the year....and this will improve the atmosphere and if that can give us even the slightest bit of a lift at county level and encourage our players and intimidate our opposition any amount whoever that may be it should be looked at. I know you ask for hard evidence to support the notion that more people will go to see Offaly play hurling in SBP as oppose to pay hurling in OCP. Hopefully in January these figures will be available after our Home games in the Walsh Cup. Once these figures are compared to the Walsh Cup games played in Tullamore the evidence will be there. If the Birr club forego the charges for use of the ground and the attendances are higher and it improves atmosphere at Offaly hurling games then the county board should possibly look at moving as many home games under the expected attendance limit of whatever SBP will get in the the Slattery report to SBP.

Overall though I just want to spark an interest in Offaly hurling again and if bringing some of the lower attendance games to SBP does this then I'm all for it.
Last edited by Wing Back on Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016 Championship

Postby greenairfield » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:25 pm

Lone shark have you looked out the windows I don't think it's a huge shame if matches are called off considering the weather.

No matter what you say you are anti Birr and I find some of your comments repetitive and stupid facts.

This website has more guys from the far end off the county on it so I think it should be called the ocp park.com or something because the rest of us are always wrong in what we say.
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