Brian Gavin

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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby keyboardwarrior » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:28 am

Health Comments Refuted As Gavin Exonerated By Hearings Committee

Thursday, 13 August 2015

Health Comments Refuted As Gavin Exonerated By Hearings Committee thumbnail
Brian Gavin, cleared of verbal abuse by the Offaly GAA Hearings Committee last week.
BRIAN Gavin was dramatically cleared to referee Sunday's All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship semi-final between Kilkenny and Waterford after a meeting of the Offaly GAA Hearings Committee last Thursday night.

Gavin, one of the top hurling referees in the country, was facing a one month ban after being reported for verbal abuse of referee Pauric Pierce (Raheen) at a recent Junior Football Championship quarter-final between Kilclonfert and Clara.

He is also chairman of Clara GAA Club and Gavin was proposed for a one month ban by the Offaly GAA Competitions Control Committee but vehemently denied the accusation and took up his option of fighting the case with the Hearings Committee.

In particular, Gavin was furious at a rumour that he had made a reference about health problems Pauric Pierce experienced a couple of years ago and he told the Tribune on Monday: 'Under no circumstances did I make any comment about his health'.

Pauric Pierce confirmed that he didn't hear any comments made about his health but he maintained that he had been 'verbally abused' and was seeking clarification from the Offaly GAA County Board about what rule Gavin had got off under.

It has proven to be a controversial affair and the repercussions could rumble on for a while yet. Initially, there were suggestions that Gavin's case would not be heard until this week, after Sunday's big game, but a meeting was called for last Thursday night after Croke Park asked Offaly to deal with the case as a matter of urgency - Gavin's case received national publicity after it was published in the Tribune last Wednesday.

The Hearings Committee decided to clear Gavin of the charges, allowing him to officiate at Kilkenny's win over Waterford as well as continue in his role as Clara GAA chairman.

It is understood that they made their decision after Gavin provided a strong defence and additional information was sought from the referee, Pauric Pierce about the nature of the alleged abuse.

Meanwhile Kilclonfert GAA Club are also less than impressed with things as one of their key players, Mark Mangan was hit with a one match ban and will miss Sunday's Junior Football Championship semi-final against Clonbullogue. Mangan was sent off for a black card during the game but was then reported for an incident after coming back onto the field during a late altercation. His case was also heard last Thursday night and Kilclonfert were furious that he was hit with the ban but are unlikely to fight it any further.

Two other players, Kilclonfert's Mick Kelly and Clara's Tony Dalton also received straight red cards during a first half melee and they have both been suspended. Kilclonfert won that game by 0-12 to 0-8 and face Clonbullogue in the semi-final this Sunday - incidentally Gavin has been appointed to referee this Sunday's Junior Football Championship semi-final between Ballycommon and Clonmore Harps.
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby keyboardwarrior » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:44 am

I feel none the wiser after reading that article which I find a bit difficult to follow. Words like ‘On Monday’, ‘got off’ and ‘fighting the case’ have a tabloidy ring to them.

“…..Pauric Pierce confirmed that he didn't hear any comments made about his health” – was this confirmation delivered by PP in his evidence to the hearings committee or during a separate interview with a TT journo?

“….but he maintained that he had been 'verbally abused' “ – again, did he make his position clear on this in his evidence to the hearings committee or the TT? In either case, is he maintaining BG was the perpetrator or does he now recollect that it was AN Other in the crowd who made those comments (and not BG)?

“…..and was seeking clarification from the Offaly GAA County Board about what rule Gavin had got off under” - the report should have been clearer on how this was done? By a formal written request to the hearings committee? A phone call to the head of referees in the CB?

Perhaps James McGraths input was in response to a rumour doing the rounds in GAA circles that the alleged abuse concerned PPs health which by association may have been attributed to BG. If the TT report is to be trusted PP has now clarified that those comments were not made by anyone, at any stage and BG is right to have approached the TT to clarify this.

Again, does anyone know if any such comments appeared in the ‘local media’ or on social media ?
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby Bord na Mona man » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:10 pm

This whole affair has a deja vu feeling to it. It reminds me of the movie LA Confidential which had a spookily similar cast and characters - Ed Exley (Guy Pearce), Bud White (Russell Crowe), Capt. Dudley Smith (James Cromwell), Sid Hudgens (Danny DeVito), Det. Sgt. Jack Vincennes (Kevin Spacey).


Ed Exley was the straight cop, occasionally unpopular with his peers for doing things by the book. --> Pauric Pierse
Image


Bud White - Often at odds with Exley, polices his own way and not always exactly by the rule book...'common sense' policing --> Brian Gavin
Image


Capt. Dudley Smith - Tries to keep a lid on things and would probably prefer if Exley kept quiet --> Offaly County Board Officer
Image


Sid Hudgens - Publisher of the Hush-Hush magazine "Hush, hush on the QT" --> Local Offaly press hack
Image


Det. Sgt. Jack Vincennes - Cop who works on the 'Badge of Honor' TV police series in his spare time. --> Michael Duignan
Image


Det. Richard "Dick" Stensland - Police partner of Bud White. --> James McGrath
Image
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby fifitrixiebelle » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:57 am

its no wonder reffing is in such a state if Gavin is 'ne of the top hurling referees in the country' . even on sunday he left a raft of obvious frees go unpunished, the man has only a passing acquaintance wit the rules
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby hawksforever » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:59 am

This is what happens when untruths are spread by the evils in our community. If any of you out there know Brian and his family will also know that all are genuine decent respectable people . At a time of great sorrow within the family in the last number of weeks all they needed was type of slander . Why question his performance last sunday or his type of refereeing when the topic was what he was wrongly accused of , hope this end's very shortly.
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby ah lethimoutwithit » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:42 pm

Nobody questioned his family's or his refereeing credentials, (if you take Fifi's opinion ....well more fool you).

Bottom line is he knows what he did and what he said and so do those that heard him. Some of the Clara management and players lost the plot after the game and Pierce suffered unbelievable abuse.

Pierce is not going to report Gavin lightly and is a serious GAA man who would have thought long and hard about this.

Bottom line is that the referees of the county have been undermined in order to facilitate Brian getting off in order to ref the semi final.

Its bad and I think there will be a lot of referees very annoyed over it.

A question I would like to ask is, have Clara appealed any of the other suspensions?

Anyway, enough, hopefully all parties can move on with it at this stage.
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby keyboardwarrior » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:14 pm

Between judge, jury and executioner ahlethimout, shout-and-hope-it goes away hawksforever and a wind up merchant fifitrixibelle this forum is a complete and utter waste of time.

What hope can you have for a lucid and even-tempered discussion?
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby Bord na Mona man » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:51 pm

keyboardwarrior wrote:Between judge, jury and executioner ahlethimout, shout-and-hope-it goes away hawksforever and a wind up merchant fifitrixibelle this forum is a complete and utter waste of time.

What hope can you have for a lucid and even-tempered discussion?

It's difficult to have a lucid discussion when most of the facts will be disputed.
Regardless, either Brian Gavin or Pauric Pierse is going to come out of the process feeling they've been wronged.
At this stage, I don't think there is much more that can be said.
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby SearingDrive » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:33 pm

Bord na Mona man wrote:This whole affair has a deja vu feeling to it. It reminds me of the movie LA Confidential which had a spookily similar cast and characters - Ed Exley (Guy Pearce), Bud White (Russell Crowe), Capt. Dudley Smith (James Cromwell), Sid Hudgens (Danny DeVito), Det. Sgt. Jack Vincennes (Kevin Spacey).


Ed Exley was the straight cop, occasionally unpopular with his peers for doing things by the book. --> Pauric Pierse
Image


Bud White - Often at odds with Exley, polices his own way and not always exactly by the rule book...'common sense' policing --> Brian Gavin
Image


Capt. Dudley Smith - Tries to keep a lid on things and would probably prefer if Exley kept quiet --> Offaly County Board Officer
Image


Sid Hudgens - Publisher of the Hush-Hush magazine "Hush, hush on the QT" --> Local Offaly press hack
Image


Det. Sgt. Jack Vincennes - Cop who works on the 'Badge of Honor' TV police series in his spare time. --> Michael Duignan
Image


Det. Richard "Dick" Stensland - Police partner of Bud White. --> James McGrath
Image

Who would KIm Basinger's character suit in the GAA?
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby Bord na Mona man » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:05 pm

Pauric Pierce has resigned according to some of the papers!

--

Report: Ref at centre of Brian Gavin complaint resigns

Wednesday, August 19, 2015 - 11:10 AM

Pauric Pierce, the GAA referee who reported Brian Gavin for comments made at an Offaly club game, has reportedly resigned.

Gavin, a high profile intercounty referee who took charge of the All-Ireland hurling semi-final between Kilkenny and Waterford, had been hit with a proposed one-month ban for comments directed at officials during the Offaly JFC quarter-final between Kilclonfert and Clara in July.

Gavin is the chairman of Clara, who lost the match, and was reported by Pierce for comments made during the game.

Gavin successfully appealed the ban to the CCCC.

A report in today's Irish Daily Star said that Pierce has now resigned as a referee and has also left his position as Offaly Board’s Coiste na nÓg chairman.

H/T: Irish Daily Star

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingne ... 91722.html
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby townman » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:49 pm

fifitrixiebelle wrote:its no wonder reffing is in such a state if Gavin is 'ne of the top hurling referees in the country' . even on sunday he left a raft of obvious frees go unpunished, the man has only a passing acquaintance wit the rules



i suppose the ref was the cause of tipp yet again showing no belly last sunday fifi fifi :lol:
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby Lone Shark » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:25 pm

keyboardwarrior wrote: Lone Shark - I know you contribute to a number of local media sources and perhaps you would know your way around enough to comment on this?


I have been waiting to comment on this for a while, but real life has thrown a few curve balls at me over the last few weeks so things like contributing to online debate has taken something of a backseat - that said, it's a vital topic, and worth teasing out.

In terms of the reporting, I'll be blunt - James McGrath is talking nonsense. There was nothing remotely unfair or untrue in what Kevin Corrigan wrote, even if it would be possible to make an argument to say that the greater good might not have been served by his call to highlight the issue. His piece was perfectly accurate, and when you write anything that is picked up by national papers, it's certainly newsworthy. I would say that some of the national papers got it slightly wrong when they wrote that Brian Gavin was suspended, when this never actually happened. A suspension was proposed, Brian had the option to accept that suspension or take it to a hearing, he chose the latter and the Hearings Committee rejected that proposal - so there was no "got off on appeal", there never was a suspension imposed in the first place. Some may see that as a technicality, but the key thing here is that Kevin Corrigan was correct.

The only possible criticism that could be levelled at Kevin or the Tribune was that once he chose to write, he was setting in motion a chain of events that ultimately culminated in Pauric Pierce's decision to resign, which is a poor outcome for Offaly GAA on two fronts. Once it appeared in the Tribune it was going to make the national papers, and that meant that if no suspension was handed down, then Pierce was going to be publicly humiliated, as happened. Pauric is a mild-mannered man, some would say far too amiable and genial to be a referee, and no matter what way this is spun, his authority was undermined - and players would know it. 98% of them would let it go, but the 2% could make his job very tough. Perhaps he may have resigned from his refereeing and Coiste na nÓg duties either way, but the fact that the dogs on the street knew this happened left him with little option.

Of course the other side of that debate is the newspaper's responsibility to, well, air the news. And this was news. So I'm not saying Kevin was wrong, merely that it was a tough call with consequences.

A key party of the problem in all this is the human nature aspect, on two levels.

(1) Human nature is such that gaps in the story tend to be filled in with whatever comes to mind in the person retelling the tale. So after a few iterations of people saying that BG was accused of abusing PP, it was natural that stories about the manner of that abuse would crop up. I've heard the same stories that BG and PP have since refuted, and you always have to be cognisant - particularly in the media game - that there is a lot of open country between what you hear and reportable facts. I was caught out once when I was naive and fresh to the reporting game, but thankfully what I wrote wasn't remotely defamatory or negative. If anything it painted the person in a better light, so nobody was offended or hurt, I made my apology, it was taken in good spirit and that was all that was to it. However things don't always work out that easily and the lesson stuck with me. It has to be verifiable.

The human tendency to speculate is also a problem now that the matter has been dealt with, since people are quick to jump to conclusions with regard to whether Brian Gavin is innocent of all charges (as James McGrath did) or whether he escaped sanction because of a technicality. In a court of law, you can be found not guilty, or the charge can be dismissed as "Not Proven". The former means that you're believed to be innocent, the latter means that you're believed to be guilty, but that they can't say so unequivocally. A clearer verdict might have dealt with this aspect.

(2) Human nature dictates that people start looking at mitigating factors, rather than dealing with the issue at hand. I've always got on well with Brian and while I didn't know of any family bereavement, my sympathies would go out to him on that regard. However real justice would require that such factors are given no consideration whatsoever, or at least not in terms of the determination of guilt or innocence. I've always abhorred the classic GAA defence of "he's not a dirty player" since you're not judging the player, you're judging the act. Similarly here - introducing any personal aspect to this is not fair to either party.


Now that Pauric has resigned, I am worried about where this leaves Offaly GAA in general. Like it or not, the perception exists in gaelic games that there is a tolerance of bad behaviour towards referees, and some of Offaly's track record in this regard is less than stellar. Much of that was cleaned up in recent years but we still have a long way to go and losing two excellent officials in the space of a year (Damien Brazil, and now Pauric) is a really worrying sign for me. Positive steps are needed in the near future if this isn't to become a big problem.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby keyboardwarrior » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:10 pm

Finally some balanced appraisal of the situation– thanks for that LS.

It must be stated firstly – fair play to anyone who comes onto sites like this using their own name – especially the likes of you LS who clearly knows all involved in the situation personally.

My own view on this is that the net outcome is undoubtedly negative – in the main the loss of PP to refereeing and CNN but also the loss of more POTENTIAL refs and volunteers who will take a look at what happened and say ‘dye know what - f this - I couldn’t deal with that hassle’.

The absolute bedrock of the GAA is not inter-county players and refs it’s the ordinary volunteer who makes it all possible. Without the latter you would never have the formers.

My own tuppenceworth, to summarise the negative:-

1. The loss of PP as referee andCoiste na nÓg chairman.
2. The (immeasurable) loss of potential referees of quality to the county (and beyond as this is a national story).
3. The lack of clarity in and around the Hearings Committees determination of the matter.
4. The intervention of James McGrath. Any sober analysis of the whole affair would concur that this was an ill-advised intervention.
5. Negative publicity for Gaelic Games in the national press.

And the positive:-

1. The (apparent) move in the right direction by Croke Park in its approach to matters of abuse of referees.
2. In fairness to Brian Gavin, the vindication of his good reputation both personally and as a referee, in as far as that can be vindicated in light of the Hearings Committee determination which, in fairness to him (and any other persons going through the process) , offers an accused person little in the way of a substantive determination.
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby ah lethimoutwithit » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:49 am

"My own view on this is that the net outcome is undoubtedly negative – in the main the loss of PP to refereeing and CNN but also the loss of more POTENTIAL refs and volunteers who will take a look at what happened and say ‘dye know what - f this - I couldn’t deal with that hassle’."

This has to be the understatement of the year! Its nearly as negative as you can get!
Tis bloody hard enough to get refs, let alone guys to take up positions on the County Board, especially Coiste Na nOg.

Lets face it, Pierce was severely undermined, Gavin got off by whatever means he did.

It pisses me off big time when lads lose the head in the GAA and then pull every trick in the book to get off. And there is the problem, the book is full of loopholes!
Sometimes you can say and do things during the heat of battle in a game, but if there's time to cool down and reflect, in many cases it can be sorted out.
I've said many a thing to a ref during a game, but have always regretted it after, as they are undertaking a job that many of us havn't done. But I have always sought to meet them after to shake their hand and wish them well, and most will have a laugh over the bit if banter.
Being at the game I could not understand the level of anger directed at Pierce, it was pretty sickening to say the least.
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Re: Brian Gavin

Postby honey badger » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:56 pm

What he said to Padraig Pearse was just terrible.
Most wouldn't wish it on a hated enemy. Brian needs to come out be a man about it all. Hiding behind a county board is a joke.
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