New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby keyboardwarrior » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:47 am

Don't agree ... players as with any other walk of life need a certain amount of direction.

Pull out a video of the 87 minor all Ireland final- a fiesta of first time pulling in the pissing rain . Was Pad Joe wrong to have them all ground hurlin?? Matter of opinion but they all bought into it.

Glad you cited Cody MFDM as he is a classic 'my way or the high way' manager
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby manfromdelmonte » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:11 pm

He has the luxury of a county full of hurlers to pick from.

A club manager doesn't have that.
Yes you try and improve the skill set of a group of players, but if players are weak overall at eg high fielding then you have to provide another avenue to success - batting, breaking high balls.
Or if a team is a small team with few big men then you try move the ball quicker than opponents away from the crowd by hand or hurl to support players and work on creating space and getting passes and runners into the space, especially at puck outs
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby jimbob17 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:59 pm

I think that If Forde were to get it that his way with Rynaghs would definitely not work with Offaly. That game is very reliant on having mobile and very skillful hurlers which by inter-county standards, Offaly dont have. We would need a more structured and direct approach id feel.

By Offaly club standards, St Rynaghs have a very skillful crop and for this reason and this reason only it has worked but only to a degree against lesser teams. When they came up against teams of equal standard hurler or better, their tippy tappy game has been found wanting in my opinion. Would be interesting to see how they would fare playing this against top 6 club teams from Galway. I think that when it comes down to it at semi final or final stage when the field is a lot more level, the more passes you have to hit to get a score, the greater chance of messing up, and especially on a wet day which is likely at the business end of season. That was very obvious v KK last year! I think they are lacking a bit of mobility also around the half forward line to fully implement their (or Forde's) philosopphy.

Getting back to the county team, Offaly simply dont have the players to play this short game. The strategicallly direct game played by Galway this year would to me be Offalys best way of progress. A sweeper only invites teams on especially against good shooters from outside. No good having a sweeper when the opposition just shoot accurately from middle of field. That is all that Tipp did to Waterford and Galway to Cork the last day. Ditto Offaly v Kilkenny last year. Pick 15 good players and go man to man when attacking and if needed when defending, just drop 1 or 2 a bit deeper from natural positions to help out. That has been the Kilkenny philosophy and as a result they are always able to go at teams as a result. The best form of defence is attack.
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby Kevin » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:41 pm

jimbob17 wrote:I think that If Forde were to get it that his way with Rynaghs would definitely not work with Offaly. That game is very reliant on having mobile and very skillful hurlers which by inter-county standards, Offaly dont have. We would need a more structured and direct approach id feel.

By Offaly club standards, St Rynaghs have a very skillful crop and for this reason and this reason only it has worked but only to a degree against lesser teams. When they came up against teams of equal standard hurler or better, their tippy tappy game has been found wanting in my opinion. Would be interesting to see how they would fare playing this against top 6 club teams from Galway. I think that when it comes down to it at semi final or final stage when the field is a lot more level, the more passes you have to hit to get a score, the greater chance of messing up, and especially on a wet day which is likely at the business end of season. That was very obvious v KK last year! I think they are lacking a bit of mobility also around the half forward line to fully implement their (or Forde's) philosopphy.

Getting back to the county team, Offaly simply dont have the players to play this short game. The strategicallly direct game played by Galway this year would to me be Offalys best way of progress. A sweeper only invites teams on especially against good shooters from outside. No good having a sweeper when the opposition just shoot accurately from middle of field. That is all that Tipp did to Waterford and Galway to Cork the last day. Ditto Offaly v Kilkenny last year. Pick 15 good players and go man to man when attacking and if needed when defending, just drop 1 or 2 a bit deeper from natural positions to help out. That has been the Kilkenny philosophy and as a result they are always able to go at teams as a result. The best form of defence is attack.


Very interesting Jimbob17.

Could you expand a bit on Galway's strategically direct approach or is that what you have already done in the lower part of the paragraph?

Thx!!
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby frankthetank » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:15 pm

I have to say I've noticed that with Galway this year too. Traditionally I would associate Galway with running with the ball and taking on their men but this year they seem to have gone for a more basic and direct formula of getting the ball into the forwards as quickly as possible. It's not a bad idea as their 6 forwards are either big men ( Jason Flynn, Joe Canning, Johnny Glynn ) or else quite adept in the air ( Cyril Donnellan, Cathal Manninon) and it has worked to a reasonable degree so far.

But the big difference this year with Galway from 2013 and 2014 I feel, is their aggression and workrate. It's been upped a considerable amount. The semi final with Tipperary has the makings of a really good game if Galway keep on their current upward curve.
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby jimbob17 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:27 pm

Unlike teams they have had for many years with jinky small and skillful corner forwards, they now have bigger men who can hurl in most forward positions. They often play it long into forwards but it is far from hit and hope. Generally played to grass or air in favour of forward who can win ball. Unlike how Cork in mid naughties and Clare / Waterford more recently who often play a type of running game, Galway play way more direct with supply coming from full and half back line but strategically placed ball. Something similar to Kilkenny in their pomp 5 years ago. Mannion always wins own ball and then has options to throw off or go himself. Flynn, Mannion, Glynn, Canning Donellan are all big men who can win their own ball but can also score and are very skillful.

As Pat Spillane says, when an artic truck meets a morris minor there can only be one winner - assume the artic truck has an appropriate skill set of course! Remember Kilkenny with Shefflin, Eoin Larkin, Eddie Brennan, John Hoyne, Richie Power, TJ Reid, Walter Walsh, Martin Comerford all win or were able to win their own ball and can / could hurl. So can Richie Hogan and he is only a small enough lad. That is the key to Cody's success! They can lump it forward when under pressure and have at least a 50/50 chance of winning the ball! Might have adjusted a little more towards the Clare / Waterford style more in last few years by adding more mobility with likes of Fennellys and Rice but not by a whole lot!
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby manfromdelmonte » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:09 pm

jimbob17 wrote:Unlike teams they have had for many years with jinky small and skillful corner forwards, they now have bigger men who can hurl in most forward positions. They often play it long into forwards but it is far from hit and hope. Generally played to grass or air in favour of forward who can win ball. Unlike how Cork in mid naughties and Clare / Waterford more recently who often play a type of running game, Galway play way more direct with supply coming from full and half back line but strategically placed ball. Something similar to Kilkenny in their pomp 5 years ago. Mannion always wins own ball and then has options to throw off or go himself. Flynn, Mannion, Glynn, Canning Donellan are all big men who can win their own ball but can also score and are very skillful.

As Pat Spillane says, when an artic truck meets a morris minor there can only be one winner - assume the artic truck has an appropriate skill set of course! Remember Kilkenny with Shefflin, Eoin Larkin, Eddie Brennan, John Hoyne, Richie Power, TJ Reid, Walter Walsh, Martin Comerford all win or were able to win their own ball and can / could hurl. So can Richie Hogan and he is only a small enough lad. That is the key to Cody's success! They can lump it forward when under pressure and have at least a 50/50 chance of winning the ball! Might have adjusted a little more towards the Clare / Waterford style more in last few years by adding more mobility with likes of Fennellys and Rice but not by a whole lot!

Watch what happens the Galway skill level when they come under pressure v Tipp or Kilkenny.

In the Leinster final they had chances but weren't able to execute the skills needed due to the severe pressure applied by Kilkenny players.

The same will happen v Tipp because the Galway players just aren't good enough, and they still haven't got a natural hurler for centre back.
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby Toxicity234 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:19 pm

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=242138

All-Ireland winning Tipperary manager Liam Sheedy is to spearhead the search for the new Offaly senior hurling manager.
“Common sense is not so common.”
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby hopper82 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:57 pm

I seen this today , Was very excited at first when I taught it read he was the new Faithful boss, he was a super manager and I think Tipp may have gone one step further last year if this master tactition was still involved any team would be lucky to have him .

Excuse my ignorance on the matter but I presume its not the norm that a county board elect a chairperson from outside the county to find a manger for them?

I'm not too concerned ,once they successfully find an appropriate candidate but Its certainly an interesting approach maybe the thinking behind it is it will rule out any accusation of bias if an internal candidates picked and you would imagine Sheedy would have a lot of contacts around the country that know the modern game very well if an external candidates to be chosen .
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby Bord na Mona man » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:32 pm

I think his input will be worthwhile. He had in place a successful setup with himself as manager and Eamon O'Shea as coach and would understand the dynamic needed.

He was in charge of a high performing unit and you'd expect he'd spot candidates who would best meet this end for Offaly. I know candidates won't be flocking for the post, but we need to picking the best of who's in the running.

Not being from Offaly, he'd be more detached and less wowed by plámás .
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby SearingDrive » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:20 pm

Bord na Mona man wrote:I think his input will be worthwhile. He had in place a successful setup with himself as manager and Eamon O'Shea as coach and would understand the dynamic needed.

He was in charge of a high performing unit and you'd expect he'd spot candidates who would best meet this end for Offaly. I know candidates won't be flocking for the post, but we need to picking the best of who's in the running.

Not being from Offaly, he'd be more detached and less wowed by plámás .

The choice of Liam Sheedy to chair the selection committee is a good decision. He has a good management record, and should help in choosing the right candidate.
Getting Offaly back to challenging at the top may take a while.
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby Buttons » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:10 am

Belmont and Tullamore have 4 points each and Ballinamere have 2. Ballinamere play Belmont last game and Tullamore play Seir Kieran. What happens if the 3 teams finish on 4 points does it go down to scoring difference, is it also head to head if two teams finish level.

There are a lot of games to play so i hope the new manager gets to see a few players in preparation for next year
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby frankthetank » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:29 pm

I will admit this is anecdotal rather than first hand evidence but seemingly Joe Quaid was at the Kinnitty vs Seir Kieran league semi final on Saturday. He has also resigned as Limerick camogie manager.

Is his appointment now a fait accompli?
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:10 pm

Ken Hogan was at Birr v Shinrone, if we are having an 'eye spy a potential Offaly manager' competition.
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Re: New Minor & Senior Hurling Management

Postby frankthetank » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:22 pm

Ah come on POTH, Ken Hogan is only out the road from Birr, has been involved in the Offaly club championship for the last number of years and obviously takes a keen interest in the Offaly SHC as a spectator.

For Joe Quaid to travel to Kilcormac from Murroe in Limerick for a league semi it would seem that something is afoot.
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