Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.

Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby Bord na Mona man » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:59 pm

uibhfhaili wrote:Make no mistake about it KK roar laughing at Offaly hurling.

You have to admire folk who can still knock a laugh at something that's been going on for nigh on 15 years!
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby manfromdelmonte » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:32 pm

No Westmeath then?
only the best...
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby Exiled in Connacht » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:38 pm

I try every year to get to the AI hurling final and I have to say I simply enjoy the skills levels and commitment of the players regardless of who they play for. Of course I would like to see someone outside of the big 3 win but Kilkenny and Cody have to be admired for what they have done since 2000, much and all as they drive me insane at times (think 2005 and last year !!).

However It has been a pleasure to witness live the skill and drive of Henry Sheflin, JJ Delaney, Tommy Walsh, Jackie Tyrell, Joe Canning, Colin Ryan, Tony Kelly, Shane O'Donnell, Eoin Kelly, Lar Corbett,Brendan Cummins, Anthony Nash, Patrick Horgan to name but a few in the last few years.

I know Tipp are insufferable when they win but Jesus the 2010 win was up there with the best and last year they went so near.Is that ok Fifitrixibelle !!!

Yes Davey is a head case but good luck to Clare. They have some wonderful hurlers.

Good luck to however wins the McCarthy cup this year, they deserve it for the level of effort they put in.

I'm just sorry that Offaly have fallen so far.
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby biffinbanner » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:44 pm

its easy for the kk crowd to be gracious in defeat..it seldom happens..!! they werent so nice tho around the years 94/99.we were challenging them big time.a lot of sore and cross kk fans around after the 95 win..all of 20 yrs ago tho sadly.
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby Sharp Eye » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:15 pm

It is true to say that Offaly hurling is in turmoil. This is greatly highlighted by recent performances at both senior and under 21 level. As for where the blame lies, well much discussion on this has centred around the county board and management. However I feel we must also look at the players and in particular those of recent minor and under21 teams. I for one, don't agree with the view that Brian Whelehan and his backroom team should take full responsibility for recent poor performances. I go back to the last time Offaly were competitive in under 21 which was only 2 years ago versus Kilkenny in Tullamore. On that evening Offaly had some stand out performers in Cleary, Camon, Carroll, Kealey, Quirke, the two Geraghtys and especially Kelleher. Yet since then only 2 players from that team Wynne and King broke in to the starting team against Clare along with Camon against Laois. In contrast, Kilkenny playing the Leinster final and All Ireland champions had 4 of their under 21 team that night starting, Aylward, Buckley, Walsh and Power. Apart from Cleary who came on and looked really good the rest of those players really need to step up to plate and seriously ask themselves why are they not developing and making a weaker senior team than players they looked every bit as good as 2 years ago. I think Whelehan is trying his best to bring on the new players like Paddy Murphy who failed to make that under 21 team. Where does Offaly go from here? Try to blame a man who is doing his best for his county or seriously question the commitment and attitude of players in this county.
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby uibhfhaili » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:30 pm

Bord na Mona man wrote:
uibhfhaili wrote:Make no mistake about it KK roar laughing at Offaly hurling.

You have to admire folk who can still knock a laugh at something that's been going on for nigh on 15 years!

I lived and worked there when we regularly beat and they hated Offaly with passion. They was something about the way we were able to outskill them that drove them mad. The worst shower of losers I've ever seen.
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby ah lethimoutwithit » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:19 pm

Some great stuff there Keyboard warrior, but not really part of this thead I'm afraid.

Back to the task in hand, I am involved in underage football and have an idea of what is going on.
We are not developing players who can think for themselves on the field, why? We are doing too many straight line drills, and not enough games based situations.

Personally I try to work on developing scenarios for my training sessions but I know it drive my colleagues mad. But you have to keep introducing the players to this type of stuff continuously in order to develop proper decision making.

Players who come into development squads continuously fail to have the ability to think out situations, and have the skill to make the right decision.

Look up Seamus Kelly on you tube from the coaching conference and his piece on "Critical Thinking Players", very interesting stuff, and this is where we need to challenge ourselves as coaches, despite lads telling you otherwise.
It takes a bit of time, and explaining but it could be an area that we could make strides in with people informing themselves a bit more, and preparing themselves for training sessions.
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby ah lethimoutwithit » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:22 pm

That should read, "Part of what is the problem".

I watched a good team train this evening and the stuff they were doing was terrible boring, monotonous, and with little logic to it.
This cant happen anymore as we lose players and the better players use their enthusiasm.
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby substandard » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:41 pm

Chain reaction:
Poor Administration, Poor Senior Management, Poorly coached senior team, lack of game plan, lack of tactical flexibility, players of 'club' standard not able to play 'county' standard, downward spiral, lack of belief, 'better' players not committing for whatever reason, no players youngsters aspire to be, no underage talent coming through, development squads not functioning, schools not functioning, club competitions stagnating.

Now suggest funding, or lack thereof, and insert it anywhere along that list, and add incremental hand-wringing, blaming, bitching and lashings and lashings of self-pity. If there's still any chink of light left, then quench it quickly with some good, old-fashioned begrudgery.

But a chain reaction is like dominoes, isn't it? So improvements start from the bottom up, and leadership from the top down facilitates this.

So how does the standard of coaching in your club rate? Think about it a minute- from u8 right through to senior. Are there suitably qualified personnel involved with every age group? Or is it just a case of getting X or Y to fill in 'because there's no-one else will do it?'. Are the proper skills being developed in ALL players, or does the team revolve around a few physically dominant players, or big personalities that have a level just above the rest, but these players are mollycoddled in case they throw a strop? Or heaven forbid that they be corrected or coached because of their DNA?!!
How much work is being done with them in primary school? In secondary school?
How is team-play developed? Is training geared towards improving the collective, or again just relying on 3-4 of the aforementioned?
It stands to reason that if there are better club players, then there will be better development squads, and subsequently better minors, better u21s, and ultimately better seniors at county level.
Hurling- even more so than football, is about time and space: creating or reducing it as quickly as possible while executing the skills. That's what ALL of the top-ranking counties do in play.

It's easy to point the finger of blame wherever, and as easy to load up on rhetoric to back it up: the county board, Brian Whelehan, previous incumbents in either category, players, etc.

Rather than point the finger, go out and f***ing do something tangible to help improve things...
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Re: Offaly Hurling where do we go from here?

Postby ah lethimoutwithit » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:23 am

Fair play substandard! Excellent post.

That is the key to what is happening. Clubs are not appointing the correct guys as many of them are not interested in getting involved.
But many of the guys involved in clubs are choosing not to do the relevant coaching courses which are critical to giving a person a base to develop as a proper coach.
Doing courses do not guarantee being a good coach, but it gives you a chance.
Thus the level of player arriving at development squad level is not at the right level with the basics of skills and decision making, other counties definitely have progressed at club level.


I have seen a few guys who I wouldn't have thought make good coaches really prosper as a result of courses giving them the confidence to progress.

Maybe it needs to be compulsory, and maybe all adult players in clubs for example should undertake the foundation course. It would be a good exercise as the players would begin to understand where coaches are coming from, its practical, so would be a mini training session, and might trigger an interest that they could pursue when they are finished.
Also players could give an hour or so with the younger players in the club, like they do in Edenderry with the Cul Reds. And they as a club appear to be beginning to reap the benefits at u14/16 level with a number of very good players starting to come through and they contested the minor final last year also.
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