Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby Bord na Mona man » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:26 pm

Even at 7-0 up, I never felt Offaly would be able to hold Waterford off.
We just don't have the means to control and dictate a game. There aren't enough (any) catching options any more, so even our own puck out is a lottery - a lottery that the opposition have bought most of the tickets for.

Key was Waterford cutting down on taking crazy long range shots and starting to drop them in to their inside forwards who could play backs vs. forwards in half an acre of OCP. As tends to be case Offaly also struggled with incoming solo runs also.
The Offaly full back line rarely get much cover these days. The player delivering it in invariable is able to pick his ball unhindered. Even if the Offaly back disrupts it, he isn't buying enough time for a rescue party to arrive to help him out.

Once again, the intensity drop off in the 2nd half is alarming. We're tearing into teams in the first half and not following up with anything remotely like it in the 2nd. Even our manager was micro managing players around where to stand for Waterford sideline cuts early on. In the 2nd half when four Offaly forwards were bunched down the middle and hopeful ball being rained on them, he was beaten man and I never saw any attempt to try and change tack.

Colin Egan is a loss as well. Needed in the half back. Needed in the half forward line. Now unavailable to either for a decent stretch. I can't see much interruption to our turf and hay saving this summer at this rate.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:13 pm

Must be a blue moon!
ah lethimoutwithit wrote:As POTH and Townman , ( who rarely agree!!) said, we didn't contest properly or want to contest the high ball or the puck outafter the 1st 15 mins.


but seriously, I do agree with this point, and the first three rounds of the NHL have provided ample evidence
townman wrote:you can't compare county with club hurling . . .


As regards Offaly's optimum forward line, two things have to be considered, which are the surplus of left-sided strikers and the need for a centre half-forward who can dominate. With that in mind, I'm thinking the following for the Limerick and Antrim games: half-forward line from right to left of Brian Carroll, Joe Bergin and Seán Cleary, and a full-forward line of Stephen Quirke, Shane Dooley and James Mulrooney.

Mulrooney (sited on the right) and Carroll (on the left) were on the wrong sides yesterday. Joseph Bergin was stretching early in the second half and appeared to be carrying an injury. He was moved to the corner soon afterwards, Stephen Quirke was readied, then Bergin set up the Offaly goal and it was about 10 minutes before Quirke was readied again. Now, if Bergin is carrying an injury he should be rested for the Limerick game. But when you assess all the options he remains the best (and probably only) candidate for the number 11 position. What are the other options? CArroll, Dooley and Quirke's optimum position is at 13. Now all three can't hurl in the one slot, so some movement is required. Dooley and Quirke carry some goal threat, and Carroll carries the greater work rate, hence my positioning above.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby bracknaghboy » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:42 pm

Bord na Mona man wrote: There aren't enough (any) catching options any more, so even our own puck out is a lottery - a lottery that the opposition have bought most of the tickets for.


Apart from management being utterly clueless as to what to do when the opposition pull a man back, the lack of catching ability is the next biggest problem facing this team.
Any idea where Paddy Murphy was Saturday? He caught plenty against Laois. Colin Egan can take a high ball and should be wing forward if he gets fit soon. Like POTH said Joe Bergin realistically remains the best candidate for 11. I've never seen Shane Dooley look as sharp or more importantly up for it than at the moment but its a real pity very little is happening around him. What disappoints me is that the forwards fought like mad men for every single ball against Laois and some of us thought this may be the sign of things to come but there has been very little of it in the last 2 games. A forward is there to score and do everything in his power to stop the ball getting out...both are equally important. Hard to know how this league campaign will go now. Laois did us a massive favor today.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby Toxicity234 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:32 am

Waterford 2-18 Offaly 1-14

Waterford could easily have run up a tally of around 5-25 against a really poor Offaly team. The wides tally of 21 only gives a hint of the litany of errors and missed chances which pervaded the Waterford play throughout.

The biggest error of all was not realising there was a match on against real opposition starting at 3 pm. For the first 15 minutes Offaly were first to every ball and winning every contest. They forced a series of frees which were meat and drink to Shane Dooley, who accounted for 1-10 (0-8 from frees) of Offaly’s total.

Waterford were seven points to nil down before they began to shake themselves a bit, led by the superb Tadhg de Búrca at centre back. Switching Kevin Moran to left half back also helped turn the tide, with Austin Gleeson moving to midfield. Shortly afterwards he sustained what seemed to be an ankle injury and was replaced by Martin O’Neill.

Waterford took over at this stage but some terrible shooting and an excess of high ball into a rather diminutive attack kept Offaly in the game. Waterford got a great boost when Colin Dunford used his pace to cut through the Offaly defence to lay off to Shane Bennett who finished expertly to the net. They finally managed to get their nose in front by the half-time whistle, 1-7 to 0-9.

The second half was almost all one way traffic with the Waterford defence completely on top and a better supply of ball into the forwards, with some good passing movement opening up the Offaly rearguard. At least twice Waterford forwards bearing down on goal were fouled unceremoniously with no yellow cards being issued by refereee James Owens, many of whose decisions baffled or angered the sizeable Waterford support in a small attendance.

Even then, Waterford could have had a hatful of goals, but the only won they managed came 15 minutes into the half when Colin Dunford forced the ball over the line from a goalmouth melee. Waterford brought on Shane O’Sullivan, Gavin O’Brien, Stephen Bennett and Maurice Shanahan during the course of the second half. Offaly’s goal was finished off by Shane Dooley after a typical catch and surging run by Joe Bergin (who otherwise was ineffectual).

I was surprised Derek McGrath left Pauric Mahony on the pitch for most of the game, given his Fitzgibbon Cup commitments and the fact that he was having little effect and missed numerous frees. While it was great to see Maurice Shanahan back on the pitch, he was only given a few minutes towards the end, when he could readily have relieved Mahony of his duties at a much earlier stage. Similarly, one wonders why Shane O’Sullivan (for example) was not brought on instead of Martin O’Neill when Austin Gleeson was injured early on, although it must be said that O’Neill put in a good shift.

One might have thought that Waterford’s Fitzibbon Cup contingent could have been held in reserve, given the quality of the Waterford bench which, apart from those already named, also included Shane McNulty, Paudie Prendergast and Donie Breathnach. Giving some of these players a start might also have countered the team’s slow, lethargic, start.

Colin Dunford wore the No. 26 jersey which was allocated to Maurice Shanahan in the programme, which explains the Midland Radio commentator’s confusion (although the guy on the public address did point this out before the game). Maurice wore the no. 23 jersey which was allocated to Thomas Connors in the programme. While Brick Walsh wore No. 14, at no stage of the game did he play at full forward, although he did miss a sitter of a goal chance in the second half (as did Jake Dillon).

Waterford’s best players were in defence, where Noel Connors gave a master class in corner back play and Tadhg de Búrca was also excellent, especially in the first half. Shane Fives had a terrific second half. Kevin Moran hit a lot of ball, but as often as not it went straight to an unmarked Offaly player.

It was great to see Colin Dunford back in the colours, and with 1-2 from play and the assist for the other goal, he was Waterford’s best forward. Jake Dillon worked very hard and notched three points. Shane Bennett was well policed by his marker in the first half (notwithstanding his goal) but was much more effective with a better supply after the change of ends.

Waterford: Stephen O’Keeffe; Shane Fives (0-1); Barry Coughlan; Noel Connors; Philip Mahony; Tadhg de Búrca; Austin Gleeson (0-1); Jamie Barron; Kevin Moran; Colin Dunford (1-2); Pauric Mahony (0-7, 6 frees); Brick Walsh (0-1); Brian O’Halloran (0-1); Jake Dillon (0-3); Shane Bennett (1-1).

Substitutes: Martin O’Neill (0-1) for Gleeson; Shane O’Sullivan for Barron; Gavin O’Brien for Dunford; Stephen Bennett for O’Halloran; Maurice Shanahan for Pauric Mahony.

Other players listed: Iggy O’Regan; Shane McNulty; Paudie Prendergast; Thomas Connors; Donie Breathnach; Tom Devine; Mikey Kearney.


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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby onthefence » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:10 pm

Firstly, the players and management don't go out to loose and these group of men sacrifice a huge amount of time and effort and it must be soul destroying to be loosing game after game in the same manner.I do belief the it is physiological at this stage that once a team starts to get a run on them they belief both on the line and the field that the game is gone from them.

It has been obvious from the 4 or 5 matches this year that we cant handle teams running at us or cant win our own puck outs so why haven't we tried something different. I said it here before puck out are so important in modern hurling but we are a disaster at them. I thought the best score we got on Saturday was on the stroke on half time when Sean Ryan moved from the right hand forward position into the space in the middle 60 odd yards from his own goal, Dempsey picked him out with a low puck out the went straight to his hand(very important) he then had time to place a ball into space in the right hand corner ,where Carroll was already on the move, collected it first time and Dooley made a looping run received a simple hand pass and scored, simple and effective.
With Waterford playing a sweeper system there was countless times Eanna Murphy made himself available for the puck outs but to be ignored, if we hit a half back or midfielder with a puckout it gives us options to create a runner from deep and strike it long over the sweeper or work it up to half forward line who has come short for it and then by pass the half back line. This will help with us holding on to more procession and making the opposition half back line step up. Obliviously this is easier said than done and there will be times you just have to go long and it will take a good first touch and belief in one another to impiment this.
I believe that we do have the players that can do this and it will go wrong from time to time but it is to management to encourage the player to look and receive the ball.
Just another thing on puckouts from Saturday, I do have some sympathy with the halfforward line and midfield as our puck outs when going long were very inconsistent, I not sure if it was the wind, but some of the long pucks were traveling 100yds some 110 yds and others 90 yds making it very difficult to know where to stand under the droping ball.
I know I harping on about puck outs when there is so many other things wrong but for feck sake try something different, im getting more frustrated the more I type.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:25 pm

A few things that were particularly disappointing last Saturday –

- Offaly hurlers waiting for the ball to come to them, when they might have been better advised to move to the ball and the momentum might have helped take them past the first tackler;
- Offaly’s terrible first touch (even if Offaly wanted to take short puckouts they would have been bound to get turned over as they struggled to control the ball);
- That Offaly won hardly any contests for possession (or rucks and scrums), which is the ultimate barometer of focus, drive and determination.

This is elementary stuff and there's no point considering the post-modern stuff until the above gets sorted.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby sam88885a » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:23 am

plain of the herbs
Your correct those things were disappointing on saturday but it has been the case since the laois game in the first round of the league in tullamore last year .


We have looked clueless, leaderless, poor touch , unable to win puckouts , unable to defend puckouts , unable to tackle correctly , unable to read the game , unable to play as a team and we are still without a game plan but most concerning is the offaly team has never played with any spirit under B Whelahan .

lone shark stated on the radio a few weeks ago that offaly had fallen behind more than any other county in 2014 under B whelahan management but that changes had been made and the view coming from the offaly camp was positive and we could expect to see big improvements this year .
I for one dont believe that spin , i think offaly are worse this year.
we still have a manager out of his debth , who has lost the support of a number of players and has completely lost the offaly hurling supporters , who has a much weaker panel that last year and as a result all we can hope for this year is not to get relegated out of 1b and exit the championship without a serious hammering .
The county board decision to reappoint B Whelahan could do long term damage to offaly hurling which may take a decade to repair .
that my opinion i wish i could see improvement and we could see a team developing that we could support and be proud of.
Sadly i just can see any real reason to hope that B Whelahan can turn things around .
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby townman » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:07 am

i think the damage to offaly hurling was done way before Whelehan came, he has most of the panel that Baker and Joe Dooley had, its our underage that needs looking at 2000 since we won a minor or under 21, way to long for a county who wants to be at the top division in hurling, look at wexford and Dublin just in leinster they have had underage leinster titles and most backbone their teams now.

offaly hurling needs a new bunch of young hurlers that have won a leinster or two together at underage the group that are there now have no history of winning a title together besides Coolderry and k/k winning a leinster club title each thats it, fair enough Sid is not up to it at county level as his record has shown in the last two years with offaly, but don't be silly enough to belive that the next man will bring much of a change he will still have the same squad that Sid Ollie Baker and Dooley had with little or no record of winning. a division 2 title win over wexford in thurles in 2009 is all we have done since a leinster final defeat to wexford in 2004, alot of water and hurling mangers have gone under the bridge since.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby allstar2010 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:03 am

townman wrote:i think the damage to offaly hurling was done way before Whelehan came, he has most of the panel that Baker and Joe Dooley had


At least Baker and Dooley were able to mostly play their strongest team, whelahan has turned so many players away from the county scene. Fair play to the players that actually want to hurl with the county these days. With Baker and Dooley we were at least competitive enough to take Galway to a replay and gave Kilkenny a "bit" of a scare. Now a win against Laois is as good as it gets unfortunately.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby townman » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:02 pm

yes agree results are and displays are getting worse, but i belive thats cause the likes of Dooley, Carroll, Bergin, are not getting any younger add in the likes of Franks, Hanniffy, the Bradys, Dylan Hayden, Paul Cleary, Del Morkam, all calling it a day at inter county, i think if dooley and Baker hadthe teams that played wexford and waterford the result would still be the same. as i said its going on 11 years since we got to a leinster final which is sad.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby townman » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:20 pm

the sad thing about last wekkends game was after waterfords first goal and the good start we made most knew and players that the arse was going to fall out of it and it did.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby sam88885a » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:43 pm

townman i agree offaly have been in serious decline for a long time , before J dooley ,O baker or Sid .
i dont agree that sid is getting the most out of even the current limited squad .
Could any other manager get less out of the team and still retain his job??
Sid have a histroy of making teams worse, look at his record at club level.
Sid does not seem to know what type of game he want to playso it not surprising that the players dont have a clue either .

i heard sid say in an interview that clubs in offaly dont play the type of game he want offaly to play .
Maybe he want them to play the wrong type of game ?
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby greenairfield » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:31 pm

I don't want to ruin this thread so briefly.....The county board told Birr once they got there safety report up to scratch the pitch was good to go..They got this done now they seem to be throwing more road blocks in front of them which is totally unfair on this new committee who are putting in huge work.Birr have gotten a lot of bad press over the years but a total new committee went in at the start of the year and are doing great work not just on the field but as a club hopefully in the near future Birr will have everything done to the field and the CB will have no choice.

On the match best of luck to Offaly they have noting to lose so hopefully they will put up a good show.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby ryot » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:25 am

Greenairfield


U seem to have got some facts a little twisted,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Offaly CB requested that the game be in Birr & it was Central Council who said no, until Safety Cert?Report (whichever) is produced.

So lay off the CB bashing, at least until u have some basis for it !!!!!!

Have Birr presented their "Report/CERT" to CC ??????
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