Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

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Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby SearingDrive » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:47 pm

A big game for Offaly on Saturday. Offaly have 3 tough games ahead, just one at home, they need at least 2 points from the remaining games to avoid a relegation scrap. I imagine Offaly would have targeted the opening 2 games as winnable, with an outside chance of picking up a couple ofpoints from the last 3 games. Waterford will be a better team than Wexford, so getting a result will require Offaly to be at their best on Saturday.

Any thoughts on the game?
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Re: Offaly v Waterford NHL Saturday

Postby allstar2010 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:52 pm

Very hard to know how this one will go, if we get a win we're pretty much safe with two games to go. That would be a great position to be in. You'd imagine a couple of the Waterford stars (Gleeson and Mahoney) would have one eye on the following Wed nights Fitz cup replay and mightn't even be playing on Sat! Either way it's going to be a tough battle and hopefully we can see an improvement from the last day.

Some of the things I'm hoping to see :
1. Half back line keeping their shape and more communication.
2. Winning the midfield battle.
3. Currams to get back scoring and a better work rate from some of the other forwards.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford NHL Saturday

Postby Toxicity234 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:05 am

Offaly are very poor and even being away I'd still be expecting a win, with or without Aussie and Paudie. They scraped a win over Laois (the same Laois team we battered by 18pts a week later) and Wexford beat them comfortably the last day in Tullamore. I don't expect a runaway victory but we should come out with a few points to spare.

The biggest game of the weekend in the group will be Limerick v Wexford. Hard one to call with Wx at home. By 4pm Sunday evening we'll know a lot more about our prospects of topping the group. A draw would be a good result for us I suppose but our fate is in our own hands so the aim will be to go out and beat Offaly, Antrim and Wexford.

Edit: Aussie and Paudie will be available I'd imagine, the Fitz replay on Weds 11th after the Offaly game. Antrim will be a wrk later so it'll be potentially 3 games in a week for the lads.


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Re: Offaly v Waterford NHL Saturday

Postby Kevin » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:24 pm

allstar2010 wrote:Very hard to know how this one will go, if we get a win we're pretty much safe with two games to go. That would be a great position to be in. You'd imagine a couple of the Waterford stars (Gleeson and Mahoney) would have one eye on the following Wed nights Fitz cup replay and mightn't even be playing on Sat! Either way it's going to be a tough battle and hopefully we can see an improvement from the last day.

Some of the things I'm hoping to see :
1. Half back line keeping their shape and more communication.
2. Winning the midfield battle.
3. Currams to get back scoring and a better work rate from some of the other forwards.


Not sure if we are safe if we beat Waterford.

I think we are only safe if we secure 6 points or if we are 3 points ahead of the bottom 2 teams going into the last round of games.

Would be great to take Waterford like you say all the same.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday March 7th 2015

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:48 pm

The key to they 'head to head' system is that you must beat the teams who are beneath you in the table.

For example, suppose Offaly beat Wexford and Waterford, but lost to both Leix and Antrim, then Offaly would finish in the bottom two, as, being tied with the Leix/Antrim winner on a 2 and 3 record, the 'head to head' would see Offaly finish below the team they were tied with.

Funnily enough the match to keep an ear on will be Antrim v Leix at Tórshavn on Sunday.An Antrim win would set the Saffrons up for a real shot at survival against Offaly in round 5, even if Offaly gain a result against either Waterford or Limerick. So Radio3 will be the place on Sunday afternoon.

That said, do I think the 'head to head' is better than the 'score difference' method, which gives an incentive to beat a team by as much as possible. That doesn't do much for either winner or loser.
Kevin wrote:Not sure if we are safe if we beat Waterford.

I think we are only safe if we secure 6 points or if we are 3 points ahead of the bottom 2 teams going into the last round of games.

Would be great to take Waterford like you say all the same.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford NHL Saturday

Postby sam88885a » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:54 pm

tox its hard to disagree with the waterford fans view , offaly only scraped over a poor laois team and we were terrible against wexford especially in the first half whereas waterford have looked really good , so on form waterford should win hardy .

i hope their is more in offaly and after two games behind them in the league that the well develope more into a team .

im not convinced about C Egan at centre back ,our midfield , wing back and half forward line have been like SHEEP IN A HEAP . hopefully Sid has sorted out things at training because if we are as poor the next day as in the first half against wexford , we will be hammmered .
that my opinion i just cant see any real improvement so far this year and j demsey has to be heroic every day for us now .
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Re: Offaly v Waterford NHL Saturday

Postby kingscounty » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:10 pm

sam88885a wrote:tox its hard to disagree with the waterford fans view , offaly only scraped over a poor laois team and we were terrible against wexford especially in the first half whereas waterford have looked really good , so on form waterford should win hardy .

i hope their is more in offaly and after two games behind them in the league that the well develope more into a team .

im not convinced about C Egan at centre back ,our midfield , wing back and half forward line have been like SHEEP IN A HEAP . hopefully Sid has sorted out things at training because if we are as poor the next day as in the first half against wexford , we will be hammmered .
that my opinion i just cant see any real improvement so far this year and j demsey has to be heroic every day for us now .

Positive as ever good man . Egan was outstanding at centre back against Wexford ,so who would you put centre back then?
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby Chris » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:28 pm

The key for me on Saturdaywill be the performance of the half back line and midfield. Waterford have been playing Pauric Mahony and Kevin Moran in the half forward line with Brick Walsh at full forward.....i cannot see out half back line getting on top here, and given our midfield's inability to put good ball (any ball) into the inside forward line I think it might be a busy day for both James Dempsey and the umpires either side of his goal. I hope I am proven wrong but I just cannot see us getting enough good ball into the full forward line and worry for the half back line and their ability to win any ball.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby sam88885a » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:07 am

Positive as ever good man . Egan was outstanding at centre back against Wexford ,so who would you put centre back then?[/quote]
That your opinion Kingscounty i think C egan and all the half back line were too far away from the full back line in the first half of the wexford and as a result none of the half backs including C egan did their primary job of protecting their full back line.
I would love to see us beating waterford but as i said before the wexford game with the team set up as it is and with the current panel ,i honestly think wexford waterford and limerick all are much stronger that us at the moment .
i think we need C egan at centre forward but we dont have cover on the panel for full back or centre back other than E murphy maybe .
i agree with chris a huge problem that was highlighted in the wexford game was the real inability of our half back midfielders and half forward to give good ball to our inside forwards ,that was down to lack of quality out the field in my opinion .
they loss of rory and d morkam was clear that day .
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby kingscounty » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:03 pm

sam88885a wrote:Positive as ever good man . Egan was outstanding at centre back against Wexford ,so who would you put centre back then?

That your opinion Kingscounty i think C egan and all the half back line were too far away from the full back line in the first half of the wexford and as a result none of the half backs including C egan did their primary job of protecting their full back line.
I would love to see us beating waterford but as i said before the wexford game with the team set up as it is and with the current panel ,i honestly think wexford waterford and limerick all are much stronger that us at the moment .
i think we need C egan at centre forward but we dont have cover on the panel for full back or centre back other than E murphy maybe .
i agree with chris a huge problem that was highlighted in the wexford game was the real inability of our half back midfielders and half forward to give good ball to our inside forwards ,that was down to lack of quality out the field in my opinion .
they loss of rory and d morkam was clear that day .[/quote]
Oh no doubt I rather see Egan on the half forward line myself but he has to pick the players that he has available now , Rory and Morkam huge loss but their not there so I suppose he has to rejig the team somehow. Is Kenny still injured ?
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday March 7th 2015

Postby SearingDrive » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:49 pm

Thanks for that clarification. If I read you correctly, we have to beat Waterford at home, and Antrim away, to avoid the relegation battle,, (two tough orders), and hope Antrim beat Laois on Sunday. Antrim will have Laois and ourselves as must win games, so we need to finish above both of them. We could surprise Limerick on Saturday week of course!
On Saturday our forwards will need to improve on the Wexford game, where I felt they were dominated by Wexford's defence, allowing them set up their forwards for scores.

Plain of the Herbs wrote:The key to they 'head to head' system is that you must beat the teams who are beneath you in the table.

For example, suppose Offaly beat Wexford and Waterford, but lost to both Leix and Antrim, then Offaly would finish in the bottom two, as, being tied with the Leix/Antrim winner on a 2 and 3 record, the 'head to head' would see Offaly finish below the team they were tied with.

Funnily enough the match to keep an ear on will be Antrim v Leix at Tórshavn on Sunday.An Antrim win would set the Saffrons up for a real shot at survival against Offaly in round 5, even if Offaly gain a result against either Waterford or Limerick. So Radio3 will be the place on Sunday afternoon.

That said, do I think the 'head to head' is better than the 'score difference' method, which gives an incentive to beat a team by as much as possible. That doesn't do much for either winner or loser.
Kevin wrote:Not sure if we are safe if we beat Waterford.

I think we are only safe if we secure 6 points or if we are 3 points ahead of the bottom 2 teams going into the last round of games.

Would be great to take Waterford like you say all the same.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday March 7th 2015

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:12 am

Just to clarify, Offaly need to beat Antrim to reach the quarter-final and avoid the relegation series. That would suffice, even if Antrim beat both Laois and Waterford (and they surely won't beat Waterford in Waterford).

Offaly don't necessarily have to beat Waterford, and Offaly beating one of Waterford or Limerick, but then losing to Antrim (with Antrim already having beaten Laois) would save Antrim and leave Offaly in trouble.

Complicated, but it will become clearer on Sunday afternoon when we see the Antrim v Leix result.
SearingDrive wrote:Thanks for that clarification. If I read you correctly, we have to beat Waterford at home, and Antrim away, to avoid the relegation battle,, (two tough orders), and hope Antrim beat Laois on Sunday. Antrim will have Laois and ourselves as must win games, so we need to finish above both of them. We could surprise Limerick on Saturday week of course!
On Saturday our forwards will need to improve on the Wexford game, where I felt they were dominated by Wexford's defence, allowing them set up their forwards for scores.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby Kevin » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:33 am

Plain of the Herbs wrote:Just to clarify, Offaly need to beat Antrim to reach the quarter-final and avoid the relegation series. That would suffice, even if Antrim beat both Laois and Waterford (and they surely won't beat Waterford in Waterford).

Offaly don't necessarily have to beat Waterford, and Offaly beating one of Waterford or Limerick, but then losing to Antrim (with Antrim already having beaten Laois) would save Antrim and leave Offaly in trouble.

Complicated, but it will become clearer on Sunday afternoon when we see the Antrim v Leix result.
SearingDrive wrote:Thanks for that clarification. If I read you correctly, we have to beat Waterford at home, and Antrim away, to avoid the relegation battle,, (two tough orders), and hope Antrim beat Laois on Sunday. Antrim will have Laois and ourselves as must win games, so we need to finish above both of them. We could surprise Limerick on Saturday week of course!
On Saturday our forwards will need to improve on the Wexford game, where I felt they were dominated by Wexford's defence, allowing them set up their forwards for scores.


Not too complicated - if even on points, the standings are determined head to head, not by points. Is that correct?
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:11 am

If two teams even on points then head to head is used.

But if three or more teams are even on points then scoring difference is used. That scenario would involve Laois beating Antrim, Antrim beating Offaly and neither of those three teams getting anything from either of Limerick, Waterford or Wexford (an outcome which is also quite possible).
Kevin wrote:Not too complicated - if even on points, the standings are determined head to head, not by points. Is that correct?
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Waterford, NHL, Saturday 7th March 2015

Postby Toxicity234 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:48 pm

hoping for a good match tomorrow.
We'll start the same team i think which is good for the players to be getting a run for game.

As for the Laois Antrim game. I be more interested in beating Waterford and keep our own faith in our own hand at the moment.
but if we do end up in the bottom 3 we should be look for a laois win. so Antrim have nothing to play for in the last game. ( just remember last year).
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