Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby Kevin » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:02 pm

Chris wrote:
kingscounty wrote:A game Offaly could have won only for the sending off early in the second half. Wexford were poor enough and hit some terrible wides . When we got the ball in the back line it was just high ball down the field , when Wexford got it they played low ball into their forwards . Colin Egan was my man of the match he was outstanding . Wynne, Mooney, Shortt, Ryan, all battled hard but when Kiely got the red our forwards were always going to struggle . Dempsey made some great saves . Wexford were feck all better than us today but the pitch was in a terrible state and players got it hard to rise the ball .


I wish I had gone to the game you were at kingscounty. ....i went tto the one in oconnor park and we were generally second best all over the field and but for Dempsey and some woeful shooting practice from wexford we could have been beaten 20 poinrs


What I heard on 103 seemed to indicate that Wexford was on top in many regards also.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby sam88885a » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:09 pm

i agree Chris ,wexford should have won this game by far more .
offaly were terrible especially in the first half , where we played with D Shortt and S Egan in defence and N Wynne and the whole half back line in midfield , if wexford had moved the ball quick and long we were wide open .
we lack quality around the middle , lads tried hard especially S ryan and C egan but the quality of deliveries to the forwards were terrible .
I think we really miss D morkam for midfield
S Dooley looked sharp but he was starved of good ball . J Demsey is a top class keeper and brought off 3 great saves again today.
C Kiely had play well , the sending off was just silly not nasty or anything .
honestly i think that team is worse than last years and if it was kilkenny we were playing we would be hammered .
i looked at the subs today most would not make a decent club team .
What is the story with E Murphy i thought we could have given him a run in midfield .
There has been a lot of talk about all the work done by offaly over the last 3 months ,there is very little evidence of it on the field apart from S Dooley and J demsey.
If we play like that against Waterford we will get a bigger beaten .
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby kingscounty » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:13 am

Lads with six minutes to go it was 1-12 to 0-12 points , I know Wexford had many goal chances but they didn't take them . Dooley had two goal chances and hit a free to Nolan who pucked it wide when he should have put it over from the free cause he was on the mark again hitting frees . Waters for Wexford was lucky not to pick up a second yellow and was taken off soon after . Don't forget where we are coming from , we were never going to top the group we need another win or two and in my mind it would be some sort of progress going into the championship.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby Buttons » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:44 am

Whats up with Brian Carroll, i know he was to do charity work but i thought that was just ruling him out of the Laois game, is there an injury or did the stay carry on for longer. His return is needed.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby kingscounty » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:51 am

Buttons wrote:Whats up with Brian Carroll, i know he was to do charity work but i thought that was just ruling him out of the Laois game, is there an injury or did the stay carry on for longer. His return is needed.
I thought he was out for the whole league , your dead right he would be worth 3-4 points in the forward line which is badly needed.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby Lone Shark » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:08 am

I wouldn't say that yesterday was all negative by any stretch of the imagination, but you can't say that Offaly were even remotely close to being competitive either. Yes Kiely's sending off was as critical as it was daft, but we were four points down having played with a strong wind at half time, so it wasn't all about playing with fourteen men. We got two points from play in the last 55 minutes, allowed Wexford to shoot seventeen wides and to draw a couple of great saves from James Dempsey, and lost by nine points at home to a team who are probably just one place ahead of us in the overall rankings. Two places at most.

For me there were guys who played well and guys who played poorly, and not much in between. Joe Bergin and Shane Dooley were again very sharp up front but you couldn't say that anyone else at that end of the field had a good game. I felt for Stephen Quirke getting withdrawn when he did, but it had to be done as the 2 on 2 situations in our full back line were completely unfair to Shortt and Egan. As it was, failing to cop on to what Wexford did after they withdrew Paul Morris cost us 1-2 in the space of five minutes. Otherwise Kinsella had a few moments, but Paddy Murphy had a poor day and Dan Currams never really made an impact. That's three starts without scoring for the captain now, which is worrying. I don't have his stats under the puckout to hand or anything, but it's beginning to look like either the captaincy or the move out to wing forward isn't suiting him.

Midfield was a bit of a mixed bag, Seán Ryan for me did a lot of his best hurling when we were really up against it and that type of character is always good to see, while Pat Camon kept a decent eye on his defensive responsibilities even if he didn't do a lot on the ball, and didn't let the side down when moved back to the half back line either. Still, the dominant influence in that sector was David Redmond and that needs investigating too.

I will say this - if you'd told me on New Year's day that we'd have two league points from our first two league games and that we'd have two players who were showing some promise in the key positions at 3 and 6, I'd have been happy out. It's far too early to say that Colin Egan and Dermot Shortt are nailed on to start along the spine of the defence in summer, but I would agree with BW after the game when he said that he was going to give the two lads the time they needed to grow into the positions and to develop as they needed to. Colin is a very strong hurler who'll show up well wherever you put him as far as I can see, but Shortt's performance against a very good hurler in Jack Guiney was the best outcome from yesterday's game for me. He was physical, possibly a touch over the edge of legality, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt there for showing a little intelligence since it was clear from the start that Fergal Horgan was refereeing this by "summer" rules, i.e. none at all. He'd have to pull the reins in if it were a different style of a refereeing in force, but I'm sure he'd pick up on that if he needed to. He took a yellow card and still kept hurling with real intensity, and only really looked exposed when he and Stephen Egan were left in acres of space up against Guiney and McGovern - and that should never happen, that's a management failure, not a defensive one.

I like Emmett Nolan as a hurler, but not necessarily as a back - he's a bit too "flicky" for my liking in that role. He was much better after he went to midfield and I could see him going well there, with Cathal Parlon likely to come back into the back line very soon too. Either that, or he needs to learn to get the ball into his hand first, and then use his more instinctive style from then on. There's a role for him though.

Antrim's two strong performances means that Offaly are still likely to need at least one more good performance and a result to get into the top four, and even though they went well in their first two outings, Waterford shouldn't be seen as unbeatable in the next game. Still lots of improvement needed though.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby Lone Shark » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:09 am

kingscounty wrote:
Buttons wrote:Whats up with Brian Carroll, i know he was to do charity work but i thought that was just ruling him out of the Laois game, is there an injury or did the stay carry on for longer. His return is needed.
I thought he was out for the whole league , your dead right he would be worth 3-4 points in the forward line which is badly needed.


He was at the game yesterday, but I've no idea if he was just back that morning and jet lagged, or injured, or anything like that.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby allstar2010 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:29 pm

Like some other posters I too seen a few positives from yesterday. Dempsey is probably up there as one of the best keepers in the country, his shotstopping is excellent and his puck outs have improved. Shortt had a great game at full back and will hopefully be left there for the year, S. Egan also went well considering all the pressure the full back line were under especially in the first half. Dooley looks really sharp and hungry and it's great to see, Bergin scored a couple of great points. Ryan got on a lot of ball at midfield but his decision making is poor and needs improving. As stated above it is disappointing to see currams not playing well, think he should be full forward. Still think this team is improvement on last year, they're fitter, fighting for each other more and seems to be some sort of consistency on team selection. Lots of improvement still to be made though and few lads to come back so it's not all doom and gloom.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby sam88885a » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:21 pm

i agree with lone shark ,there was positives yesterday even if both teams were poor .
j demsey is top class and d shortt and s egan look the part in the full back line .
c egan has to learn to protect his full back line more ,he get drawn too far out the field .
s ryan is a great worker but both e nolan and himself are too fond of running with the ball,they need to be thought to get the ball in early to s dooley j bergin and d currams .
s dooley looks to be the big plus from last year his fitter and sharper .
j bergin took a couple of nice scores .
the negatives was the half back line didnt do it primary job of protecting the full back line and the half forward line didnt function at all .
those problems can be sorted on the training pitch .
s kinsella works hard but i would have put s ryan in centre forward for 20 minutes to see if he could ask different questions .
d currams didnt work at wing forward but he gave a good pass in the first half to s dooley out wide and continued running unmarked but dooley took his own score and again he fed dooley in the second half and went for the return and dooley didnt give it . both were goal chances so the more often dooley bergin and currams hurl together the better they should get With b carroll to come back i wont be over worried about out inside forwards if we can improve the quality of ball they get .
yesterday wexford were poor but still they were much much better than us .
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby greenairfield » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:41 pm

Guys we are yet again going around in circles because of the bad appointment of managers.I will not question yesterdays commitment from players but would have to question or "game plan" or should I say the lack of one we had.Alot of guys seem to put a gloss on things on this website and not look at the reality of what really went on.
Kiely is not an underage hurler anymore and his behaviour can be noting short of a disgrace at times no other county hurlers go on like that it's about time he grows up and gets the right attitude to be a county hurler.
Currams has to be full forward and if he is not going to be there don't play him cos he has noting to offer in the half forward line.
Remember Wexford shot 7 wides in a row yesterday without us getting the ball past midfield it was terrible pattern of play from both sides.I worry for us as wexford were missing there main man in mcdonnell and were awful yesterday and they still managed to beat us by 9 points.
it's about time these players got a top clas manager then we would see where we are because for the last 8 year we have given them average managers which mean's we get very ordinary results.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby Sharp Eye » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:00 pm

greenairfield wrote:Guys we are yet again going around in circles because of the bad appointment of managers.I will not question yesterdays commitment from players but would have to question or "game plan" or should I say the lack of one we had.Alot of guys seem to put a gloss on things on this website and not look at the reality of what really went on.
Kiely is not an underage hurler anymore and his behaviour can be noting short of a disgrace at times no other county hurlers go on like that it's about time he grows up and gets the right attitude to be a county hurler.
Currams has to be full forward and if he is not going to be there don't play him cos he has noting to offer in the half forward line.
Remember Wexford shot 7 wides in a row yesterday without us getting the ball past midfield it was terrible pattern of play from both sides.I worry for us as wexford were missing there main man in mcdonnell and were awful yesterday and they still managed to beat us by 9 points.
it's about time these players got a top clas manager then we would see where we are because for the last 8 year we have given them average managers which mean's we get very ordinary results.


I was most surprised with the game plan for the 10 minutes before the interval. Offaly had the aid of a strong wind and played with just two in the full forward line despite being in arrears. Wexford were not great yesterday, but for Offaly to have any chance of taking advantage we needed to be 4/6 points ahead at the interval and certainly not in arrears. Three in the full forward line after the interval got us back into the game despite playing against the wind. A Two Man Full-Forward line is only suitable when a team is in Front and playing against the wind. We saw how the sweeper system & two man full-forward line worked for Offaly last year.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby Lone Shark » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:56 pm

Sharp Eye wrote:I was most surprised with the game plan for the 10 minutes before the interval. Offaly had the aid of a strong wind and played with just two in the full forward line despite being in arrears. Wexford were not great yesterday, but for Offaly to have any chance of taking advantage we needed to be 4/6 points ahead at the interval and certainly not in arrears. Three in the full forward line after the interval got us back into the game despite playing against the wind. A Two Man Full-Forward line is only suitable when a team is in Front and playing against the wind. We saw how the sweeper system & two man full-forward line worked for Offaly last year.


There was a two man full forward line because after Wexford took off Paul Morris, they played with two men in and that left Guiney and McGovern in acres of room, which led to Wexford scoring 1-2 in five minutes, a point for each of the two lads and a goal from Guiney set up by McGovern. Offaly had to react in order to pull an extra man back there, and the choice was to take off Quirke. The alternative was to leave a spare man somewhere - either Kevin Foley around midfield or Daithí Waters if it was the case that Colin Egan was to drop back and cover as was suggested in this thread.

I think a lot of people in Offaly are a little bit blind in that they have a tendency to see Offaly's inability to use a sweeper or play with two inside forwards as a weakness in the system, rather than a weakness in how that team is coached. As you say, we saw how that system worked for Offaly last year. We also saw how it worked for Clare in 2013.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:12 pm

The first-half performance was abject. There can be no arguments about that, and I think everyone here is in agreement. The defence were torn asunder. The forwards lost shape way too early, created hardly any scoring chances. Wind-assisted, Offaly never drove any ball in on top of Dooley and Bergin, both of whom can hurl in the air. The first time I ever saw a team that was hurling with the wind having to resort to a seventh defender.

A few of years ago Shane Dooley was coming back into his own half to take frees – and that was when Paul Cleary was on the field. Remember the Tullamore man scoring a winner into the Arden Roan end against Wexford in 2011? Offaly have had a number of frees around their own ’65m line against Laois and Wexford. They are within Shane’s radar yet are being taken by Emmet Nolan. That needs to be sorted.

Throughout, the referee invoked that ‘allow for the conditions’ thing so loved by those who cannot abide seeing play held up, even for a few seconds, to clear 20 metres so a free can be taken. And so Fergal Horgan was only going to blow for a free when there was a possibility a hurler would be strangled.

In an ironic way the sending off brought Offaly back into the match. Wexford switched off, Horgan gave Offaly four or five frees he wouldn’t have given in the first-half, and Seán Ryan got to work around the midfield sector. Offaly didn’t need a goal at that stage – the rules of engagement for a shock result were in play and Offaly just needed to keep in touch and strike once, late and hard. A goal around the 45th minute would probably have seen Wexford wake up.

I suspect the wind whipped up further with ten minutes remaining (as was forecast earlier that morning) and James Dempsey was unable to get his puckout beyond the half-back line.

On James Dempsey. Beyond doubt hurling’s top goalkeeper at the moment. I have no hesitation in saying that. Yes, that is partly because opposition forwards are creating goalscoring chances, but Brendan Cummins spent a decade making five great saves in every match he played for Tipperary. If James keeps this form up Kinnitty might even recall him into goal.

I never saw O’Connor Park as soggy.

Even if Offaly had beaten Wexford, they would still need to beat Antrim, in Torshavn or Reykjavik or wherever, to ensure survival. How Antrim v Laois go will be important. An Antrim win, and Antrim v Offaly becomes a straightforward winner-takes-all where a win would ensure fourth spot. If Offaly do win another match and Antrim don’t, then an Antrim win (coupled with an Antrim win over Laois) would see Antrim prevail on the head-to-head rules. Other hand, if Laois beat Antrim, then an Offaly win over Antrim on the last day would ensure survival, whereas and Antrim win over Offaly would leave each of the three counties tied with one win and four defeats, in which case score difference would decide the three-way tie.
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby sam88885a » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:34 am

poth yesterday offaly were terrible .
do u think we need to make changes for the waterford game?
should we change our game plan?
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Re: Offaly v Wexford, NHL, Sunday February 22nd 2015

Postby ryot » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:05 am

Was dissapointed with the game.

Players all gave a mighty effort. I was especially pleased with the full back & centre back. A few players struggled very badly with the conditions, strength being an issue.

The wind did seem to get stronger as in the first half Wexford pucks were carrying but as the second half wore on our puck outs got very short and allowed Wexford dominate and that plus being down to 14 really told in the last 10.

I was disgusted but not surprised at Horgan. He allowed a lot of pulling & dragging, especially lads arm being held as they tried to pass the ball. There was one crazy episode late in the game when D Money brilliantly won the ball 3 or 4 times but was pulled/held each time as he tried to lay it off. It must be might frustrating

Kiely deserved his red and a bit of maturing is in order but----

Now while it would might never have have affected the result D Watters had 3 or 4 Yellow Card fouls, got a card for the second but Horgan ran away from the last 2 and allowed Wexford to sub him. Even the Wex fans around me were calling for him to be subbed rather than be sent.........

What annoyed me most was lads in the stand roaring "Drive it long" & "Pull on it" when neither was on. How about keeping it and using it to best advantage............
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