minor hurling

[timber]

Im based outside the county so not up to speed on the minor championship. Is there any sign of it being finished this year? How has it been left so late to finish?

[Lone Shark]

Seir Kieran are already into the final, they'll play either Kilcormac-Killoughey or Shamrocks at that stage.

Trying to schedule games at this grade is notoriously difficult. Most clubs are dual clubs with players involved across the codes (Ferbane/Belmont won the minor football today after losing the hurling semi by a point to Clareen last weekend) and then you have aspects such as Shamrocks and KK hurling in Leinster to contend with.

[Chris]

I agree about finding it difficult to finish championships this year but why are they left till this time of year. There is absolutely no reason why the minor hurling championship could not be finished in time for the final to be played before the senior final. The semi final between KK and B/D was played in shocking conditions with puddles all over the place. The messing about that went on with the groups earlier in the year should never have happened.

[Plain of the Herbs]

That the Minor championship will not be completed until mid December at the earliest and that Shinrone, K-K, Coolderry and Na Fíanna went a massive length of time without a match due to a championship system that was designed by someone with no concept of either mathematics of logic. But to understand the system I need to explain last year’s system.

There were three groups, two strong groups and a weak group. Each group consisted of five teams, which is important as I will explain later. The top three teams in each strong group and the top two teams in the weaker group (8 in total) went into the ‘A’ quarter-finals. Shinrone win the ‘A’ Final in October. The remaining seven teams went into the ‘B’ championship which was won by CRC Gaels. So far so good.

This year they used much the same system, but there was a critical change which created the delay. Firstly, there was an extra team (making 16), but one of the strong groups consisted of just four teams, the other had five teams while the weak group consisted of seven teams. Now those of us who are good at the figures and understand logic know that a four-team group is completed in three rounds but a seven-team round robin group requires seven rounds. So playing matches fortnightly (dual clubs were largely in the larger weak group, Clara, Brosna Gaels, Tullamore) required 14 weeks.

The championship began on July 16th and the smaller group 1 was completed on August 20th but the quarter-finals couldn’t commence until all three groups were completed. Group three wasn’t completed until October 14th. Then to complicate matters, there was a tie between the second placed and third placed teams which required a playoff with the winner going into the ‘A’ championship and the loser going into the ‘B’.

The most recent complication involved Kilcormac-Killoughey and Shamrocks. Both are in Leinster campaigns, both are scheduled to play on alternate weeks and so it is difficult to see when they can play their semi-final.

Incidentally, the ‘B’ championships were generally the preserve of smaller rural clubs (Lusmagh, Clareen, Drumcullen etc.) and clubs who prioritised football (Clara, Tullamore etc.). But the system described above allowed Birr and St Rynagh’s contest the U14 ‘B’ Final this year. It also allowed Birr win the Minor ‘B’ hurling in 2012. Which doesn’t seem fair to the rural clubs or the north Offaly hurling teams.

[Lone Shark]

Incidentally, the ‘B’ championships were generally the preserve of smaller rural clubs (Lusmagh, Clareen, Drumcullen etc.) and clubs who prioritised football (Clara, Tullamore etc.). But the system described above allowed Birr and St Rynagh’s contest the U14 ‘B’ Final this year. It also allowed Birr win the Minor ‘B’ hurling in 2012. Which doesn’t seem fair to the rural clubs or the north Offaly hurling teams.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with this point - I'm somewhat on the fence in truth - but just to shine a light on the other side of the issue, the thinking behind this system is to ensure that every team gets a certain number of games, and that teams are graded based on results and ability, rather than the usual charade of horse trading at the start of the year. Historically, there are a handful of clubs in Offaly, both football and hurling, who have a long track record of fighting to get into "B" competitions if they are anything less than clear front runners to win the "A" grade. It also ensures that when traditionally big clubs have comparatively weak teams, they have a reasonable chance of competing at their own level rather than getting hammered week in and week out simply because their club has loads of trophies gathering dust in the clubhouse. The sight of Rhode competing in a minor "B" football final today wouldn't sit easy with some people, but they ended up in "B" at U14, U16 and minor this year and in the case of the first two age groups, you certainly couldn't argue that it was anything other than correct. They were probably the marginally weaker team today too, but the brilliance of Rúairí McNamee kept them alive for another day at least - you certainly wouldn't say that they were out of place at the high end of "B" rather than in "A".

I also get the point that if Rhode win the replay of today's drawn game, a minor "B" title is likely to get lost in that club's long list of championship wins, while winning it would mean a lot to this Na Fianna group. Similarly Birr and Rynaghs winning titles at "B" probably won't mean a lot to them.

Again to turn things on their head though, if we graded clubs before the championship even started as we used to do before, I'd be quite skeptical of whether Na Fianna would have been (a) offered the chance to play U16A in 2013, and (b) brave enough to opt for the higher grade themselves. The temptation to take the easier option of playing B and essentially picking up a handy win would have been very hard to resist. Consequently that club would have missed out on a momentous win, one that will hopefully be a real incentive for hurling in that part of the county to come on in leaps and bounds in the coming years. We almost had a similar story with Ballinamere/Durrow this year at the same age group.

One of the best county finals that I had the privilege of attending was the 2008 U21 final between Seir Kieran and KK Gaels. It was an enthralling game, but it also was incredible because of the scale of the achievement by Clareen that day - to win an "A" championship with essentially a panel of 17 fit players iirc. I remember doing an interview with Joe Bergin afterwards and he talked about how they decided to give it a go themselves instead of joining up with Kinnitty, and all I could think of then - and still now too - is how few clubs would have been brave enough to go through with that. This new system encourages that type of thinking because you can have a go, and if it turns out that your group wasn't quite good enough, "B" is always there to fall back on.

Finally, adult championships run in this manner are famous for chicanery. Clare football used to run a backdoor/front door championship for years and when I was in college I shared a house with two lads from West Clare - both swore blind that Doonbeg used to make no effort in the first round every year since they felt that they had a better chance through the backdoor. You can do that with cynical adults, but kids on the other hand tend to be 100% committed in every game, going full pelt is all that they know how to do.

[townman]

was the minor final called off today, at half time because of fog, wont be on next week either with k/k hurling in club final.

[Chris]

It wascalled off at half time.....should never have been allowed to start in the first place.....i guess what happened today was probably inevitable based on how this championship has been treated by the county board all year. This was the farce of all farces.....and it seemed to me (although unconfirmed) that the chairman of the county board intervened at half time and instructed the referee (Paddy Kirwan) to call a halt to proceedings. .....

[Toxicity234]

Disappointed that this match even started.

[sam88885a]

today was a total farse .
the game should never had started .it was impossible to see the players on the far side of the field .u couldnt see either goal for the middle of the stand .
the county board just want to get the final out of the way i think .
paddy kirwan ability as a ref must be questioned to allow the game to start .?

could the game have not taken place in birr or kinitty instead?

it see to me the seir kieran manager went to the ref at half time and after a big chat with all involved the game was halted .
by that time the fog was lifting and the could have played marbles out there within 15 minutes .

as for the game its self both full backs mahon and mulrooney hurled well gath at corner bach for kk was outstanding .kiely scored one huge free , but it was imposible to judge lads today .

[Killeighman]

What was the score at half time before play was halted?

[townman]

it was 0- 4 each, i seen on the score website we are the laughing stock of the country again they have pictures up of the fog and only a gobshit would give the call to play this today, but sure what more you you expect from the county with the gobshits we have in the county board. can someone here please tell me why this has not been played long ago it used to be on before the senior county final and that was played weeks ago it's not as if we had our minors in any final at county level this year

[John6080]

It was a disgrace to have that match in today in them conditions!!

[John6080]

For starters the match should not have went ahead end of.kiely missed a few frees for kk and so did Kinsella for clareen og. Clareen hurled well in the first half overall. Mahon hurled well in the edge of the square for kk. But Gath was class in the corner. Kiely hit a excellent long range free. It will be a thrilling match the next day.

[ah lethimoutwithit]

County Board again Townman?, gobshite if you are going to use the term , should be applied to the ref, who has the final say on whether a game is played where weather conditions come into play. But Co Board deserve every criticism over the delay in this championship.

[townman]

did Chris not say that Padraig Boland went in to call a stop to it, yes our county board are muppets
would you like to give me a reason why we are only playing our minor county final 4 weeks before christmas, minors beaten again laois in may under 21's by wexford on the 25 of june seniors gone july
so what was going on in the last 5 months or more to hold up the minor championship i'd tell you nothing, thats what our county board think of the youth in offaly hurling today fix games in the middel of winter, most counties that went far this year in the hurling have there minor finals over with so whats our excuse i'd been waiting for an answer for that.

as for the ref i'd say he was free to ref this over the last 5 months not his fault if we play our finals in the middle of winter agree he was wrong to go ahead with it in the fog, but i'd say he got a wink from our chairman to go ahead.