Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

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Daleamar
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Daleamar »

With the two point swing, it was most likely the ref just noted the score on the wrong side of the page.

Its easy enough happen I suppose. Unfortunate it was an important game.

Happened in a league match I played in before. Both sides knew who really won but the ref gave it to our opponents, didnt really matter in the end.....

Offering a replay is big of Durrow, seeing as they actually lost the game....

Abercrombie Fitch
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Abercrombie Fitch »

It's a strange one because on one hand Durrow didnt have to do this but lets say Durrow win the replayed game. Justice still wont have been done as Clara should be in the final but for a refereeing error. An unfortunate situation for all involved.

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Archangel
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Archangel »

Daleamar wrote:With the two point swing, it was most likely the ref just noted the score on the wrong side of the page.
Offering a replay is big of Durrow, seeing as they actually lost the game....
I don't know how Durrow players could accept this "win" , knowing you lost a match yet you advance to a final! I know it's easy to seem 'holier than thou' but I find it hard to see how they can accept this victory. As said above, even offering a replay doesn't seem right.
If you lost,..you lost! There's no technicality in a referee writing down the wrong score when everyone know what the score really was.
Do the right thing for the good of the game, it would be a hollow victory for whoever won the final. Durrow if the won, or the other team who beat a side who lost these semi-final?
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offalyman18
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by offalyman18 »

I was at the game and I must say it was a shambles, I will not go into the topic of "if it was the other way around clara would" or "durrow a small club being bullied" because neither matters.... I know personally that durrow officials have 100% accepted they lost by a point and are now offering a replay which to me is an absolute disgrace on there behalf, clara should go through to the county final and let that be the end of it its the right thing to do for the benefit of the game in my eyes. also I have to mention tommy Anderson ....everyone makes mistakes but he should be ashamed of himself the way he has handled it refusing to admit he was in the wrong when he must know he was! by the way would any person on this website want to play in a county final knowing you didn't deserve to get there nor should you be there??? not me anyway! on a separate note huge weekend for the gaa thrilling encounters this weekend with mayo,kerry.dublin,donegal its been a great advertisement for the game :D

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Lone Shark
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Lone Shark »

Lets keep a bit of perspective here - if it is the case that Tommy Anderson 100% made an error and that Clara won by one (and the balance of probability would suggest that this is the case) then of course it's really harsh on those Clara players, but it's no harsher than any other critical refereeing error.
offalyman18 wrote: by the way would any person on this website want to play in a county final knowing you didn't deserve to get there nor should you be there???
I think most players accept that mistakes happen and that you have to take the good with the bad. I find it amusing that everyone is clamouring for Durrow to step aside and concede the game, even though you don't read any writers in national papers claiming that Kerry should do the same after Cormac Reilly made a string of shocking calls in the All Ireland semi-final replay at Limerick. And yes, I know it wasn't as straightforward as a counting error, but a genuinely neutral ref would have had Mayo at least four or five points better off in that game and just one of those scores would have put Mayo into the final.
offalyman18 wrote:also I have to mention tommy Anderson ....everyone makes mistakes but he should be ashamed of himself the way he has handled it refusing to admit he was in the wrong when he must know he was!
I'm curious about this. How "must" he know? He has his notebook, he won't have a perfect recollection of every score, there is no video - how is it so certain that he knows he's wrong? I agree that he probably is, but there's a big jump from that to certainty.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by GOOFY »

offalyman18 wrote:I'm curious about this. How "must" he know? He has his notebook, he won't have a perfect recollection of every score, there is no video - how is it so certain that he knows he's wrong? I agree that he probably is, but there's a big jump from that to certainty.
In fairness if both clubs are acknowledging that a genuine error was made then by this stage of course he knows he made a mistake, if he doesn't realise that then.............

Personally I think a replay is the fairest solution
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Arra hould on! There can't be a situation where the two teams themselves keep the score, and if they happen to agree at the end then that is deemed to be the final score.
GOOFY wrote:In fairness if both clubs are acknowledging that a genuine error was made then by this stage of course he knows he made a mistake, if he doesn't realise that then.............

Personally I think a replay is the fairest solution
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by GOOFY »

Plain of the Herbs wrote:Arra hould on! There can't be a situation where the two teams themselves keep the score, and if they happen to agree at the end then that is deemed to be the final score.
Lol, im not saying that at all, what I mean is it should have been very obvious that something was wrong, and seeing that Durrow admitted as much then surely he should have amended his report.

Surely you don't agree that the refs incorrect report should stand and Durrow should go through to the final?
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Archangel
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Archangel »

You can't compare Anderson's role to that of Cormac Reilly or and other referee by saying their decisions right or wrong stand. All referees make judgement calls during a match and ultimately impact on the final outcome. The match we talk about has no incident being called into question, ergo the match finished as it did, probably with Durrow trying to get a point to equalise or Clara holding on defending their lead. The question is in regard to Tom's maths, which doesn't or shouldn't alter the factual result.
I know there is a "letter of the law" but we seem to forget the core values of our games,..... play hard, play fair and may the best team win!
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Lone Shark »

GOOFY wrote:
Plain of the Herbs wrote:Arra hould on! There can't be a situation where the two teams themselves keep the score, and if they happen to agree at the end then that is deemed to be the final score.
Lol, im not saying that at all, what I mean is it should have been very obvious that something was wrong, and seeing that Durrow admitted as much then surely he should have amended his report.

Surely you don't agree that the refs incorrect report should stand and Durrow should go through to the final?

This is the aspect in all this that I have trouble with - that there is a presumption here that the referee is incorrect, and that this is indisputable. It's all very well to say that the two teams agree, but the GAA have to have rules and they have to uphold those rules. The rules are very clear - the referees report is final, and only an unedited, unbroken recording of the game in full can be used as evidence against that. Tommy may be in the wrong here, but until he says so or someone produces a recording, there is no scope to do anything. Somebody in the Offaly CCC managing the Junior B competition has to have some form of rules to go by, and if they decide to ignore those regulations simply because people have come to the conclusion that it's "obvious" that something was wrong, then we will have chaos.

If people feel that the rule should be changed then please do, but I would challenge anyone on the board to put together the wording of a rule that would work in this situation.
Archangel wrote: I know there is a "letter of the law" but we seem to forget the core values of our games,..... play hard, play fair and may the best team win!
If we are to go by values, then maybe Clara shoudl be in the Offaly Junior B final, but it's pretty clear that Mayo should be in the All Ireland Senior final as well. I really don't understand why one clear-as-day error such as the failure to give Shane Enright a second card for the foul on Cillian O'Connor and so send him off is something that should be treated as part of the game, just human error from the ref, but another aspect of potential human error should be overturned simply because the two teams agree? By that logic can the two teams agree not to have a player sent off if the referee feels a red card is warranted as well?

Of course that's an extreme scenario which is utterly unworkable, but I'm trying to work out a rules framework that would allow a result to be overturned in this type of situation otherwise and I just can't see it.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

GOOFY
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by GOOFY »

Arragh lads look, I see yer point and its probably not possible to draft a rule to allow for these situations and therefore you are correct that the refs report should be final. Like should Lee Keegan have been allowed play the replay the other day? The ref was technically correct to send him off.

My point is not a technical one, its a practical one that a mathematical error by the ref, acknowledged and agreed by both clubs should constitute a replay at the least.

PS - This isn't a witch hunt on Tommy Anderson, its the toughest job in the gaa and his error was very easy to make.
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Buttons
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Buttons »

I was thinking the same as lone shark myself, how many games did someone strike an opponent and not get sent off and they score a few points later , too many steps all these are down to mistakes by referees( they are human). Remember hawk eye with Limerick minors last year and they were robbed by the point losing in extra time, they werent given a replay.

At the end of the day the refs decision is all that counts

Daleamar
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Daleamar »

Lone Shark wrote:Lets keep a bit of perspective here - if it is the case that Tommy Anderson 100% made an error and that Clara won by one (and the balance of probability would suggest that this is the case) then of course it's really harsh on those Clara players, but it's no harsher than any other critical refereeing error.
Of course it is harsher than other refereeing decisions. Most decisions are the refs "interpretation", there is no "interpretation" of the scoreboard.
Lone Shark wrote:I think most players accept that mistakes happen and that you have to take the good with the bad. I find it amusing that everyone is clamouring for Durrow to step aside and concede the game, even though you don't read any writers in national papers claiming that Kerry should do the same after Cormac Reilly made a string of shocking calls in the All Ireland semi-final replay at Limerick. And yes, I know it wasn't as straightforward as a counting error, but a genuinely neutral ref would have had Mayo at least four or five points better off in that game and just one of those scores would have put Mayo into the final.
Another rediculous statement, see above. Most decisions, the ref has one view, if hes unsure, he asks the linesman/umpire. Could he not have done this regarding submitting his report?
Lone Shark wrote:I'm curious about this. How "must" he know? He has his notebook, he won't have a perfect recollection of every score, there is no video - how is it so certain that he knows he's wrong? I agree that he probably is, but there's a big jump from that to certainty.
Well he "must" know at this stage. He is hardly still denying it is he?

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honey badger
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by honey badger »

Any update on this?

Buttons
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Re: Clara v Durrow Junior B football S/F shambles

Post by Buttons »

Rearranged for thursday week in Tubber, probably all ticket with the talk on here about it!!

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