What are they smoking in Birr?

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.

Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby theoutsider » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:19 pm

greenairfield wrote:Have na fianna stepped up to the mark or is it just because teams this endof the county aren't at the level they were?

We are struggling at county level underage so I think that gives an indication on where or players standards are at club level so I would question how strong that Na fianna team would be in the minor championship of 6 or 7 years ago.
I have repeatly said moving hurling out of Birr was just ONE of many reasons why hurling has fallen in the south end.
KC no point taking anything you say as you are clearly anti Birr in all you posts.

I have always said OCP is a great venue but no point have a great venue when our teams are nowhere near competing at a decent level.


Ok where do I start.

Na Fianna won the Minor Championship as they beat whatever teams are in front of them. Maybe that was because standards slipped or maybe its because they developed players to be of a high standard (Liam Langton last sunday as an example). Its not as if it was out of the blue in fairness, this team have been competing well all the way up - example been wining the 2013 U-16 A Hurling. Instead of belittling Na Fianna's success we should be saying "jaysus isnt great to see a team from the predominantly football area win a few major underage titles at hurling".

We are struggling at underage because of coaching standards and lack of development in underage structure. One of the reasons is not because the pitch where the county teams hone their skills was moved a half hour up the road. I really cant believe a grown man is using that as one of the reason's for our county team's failure.

Time and time again this debate comes up and that it played a part in our fall from grace. Time to wake up and smell the coffee - Offaly isn't going to taste success until the County as a whole get their act together and start working together. We need to set up a development plan and work towards to where we are going to be in 5 years time for example.

- Develop hurling or football in areas that only play one or the other. Look at Brosna Gaels for example. Junior B to Senior Championship in 6/7 years - it can be done.
- Get people in each club trained up on how to train UNDERAGE players. Not have an ex player train them and have them doing 10 laps of the field. Skills are essential part of developing a player - fitness can be easily trained at any age but the key years in developing skills is between 8-18. Lack of work in these years and the knock on affect can be really bad
- Develop "Elite" camps from u-13 to Minor. These camps should bring on the better players from each club but it wont work unless the club players have the skills already learnt.

So to sum up:
- The county teams failure in Hurling isnt because matches were moved up the road
- We will never catch up with Kilkenny for at least 10+ years - if even.
- Hurling snobbery has to change. The county border doesn't end in Tullamore!
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby kaiserchief » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:42 pm

Seems like greenairfield is purposely annoying the shit out the majority of Offaly supporters and posters or what I'm more concerned about is talking through your hole and looking for excusing to justify the decline in Birr's silverware.

Example - from your quote

greenairfield wrote:BNM I think the results speak for themselves.

When Birr and Banagher for example were at the top of the minor hurling championship,we competed against Kilkenny, wexford, Dublin.

Now that 'different' clubs ie. Ballinamere, Na fianna are at the top and Birr,Bangher and the likes are struggling- it kind of shows where we are with underage at the minute.



This makes no sense when the facts are as follows. If we look at the last 12 Minor 'A' title winners (which would leave lads between ages of 18 and 30 which majority of inter county teams are based around). Are Banagher not top of this list?

K/K 4
St Rynaghs 4
Birr 1
Coolderry 1
Shonrone 1
Na Fianna 1

This shows the facts that exist now the 4 teams who have won the majority of minor titles in these years are the stronger teams competing at senior level.

A problem I see which is a worrying fact is that kk have won 3 of the last 5 minor titles and 3 of the last 4 senior titles and there was no starter from their club in our 2 league games and only one sub (james gorman) whom I also think will struggle to make his club team this year if they have a full fit squad.

We are a small county with small population and small number of clubs. We should be worrying more than our best lads are available to commit to the cause more so, rather than bringing this hurling back to birr shite.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby greenairfield » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:45 pm

KC i am not talking through my hole, I am just clarifying the facts that at the minute Birr and Banagher are not at the top of underage hurling.

Bangher last won a minor title in 2010, a point you didnt make known!!!

While Birr was 2004!!!

Its not all about winning but at least we were competing when the likes of Joe bergin, Shane Dooley and Sean Ryan were 18 to 21 years of age. The standard back then was much higher that the last few minors K/K won or last years minor final with Na Fianna.

How do I say that??

well your great K/K team at the minute with :
Selvins
Leonards
Gorman
Currams
Grogan

really the backbone of your team couldnt win a county title as Birr and Banagher didnt give them a look in at any age level coming up to senior.

The birr team lost a few hurlers as they couldnt break into a strong senior team that was winning all Irelands, but still alot of them are hurling with Birr.

While rynaghs still have a few of the lads knocking around there current panel.

The point im making these were competitive high level championships which led to good county minor/U21 teams.

Now at minor and U21 we dont have the same standard..which makes me think yes or minor championship is considerable weaker than 7 or 8 years ago!!!
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby private joker » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:24 pm

And the reason that it is weaker is because the work is not been done to a good enough standard in clubs. Lots of work, lots of effort but the quailty? And most certainly not because games are played in OConnor park.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby greenairfield » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:55 pm

Maybe one of the reasons work isn't been done in clubs down here the interest has gone.
Why?
Maybe because the south Offaly clubs have lost touch wit hurling since the move to OCP.

The buzz is gone, and were getting hammered and you lot are happy to keep supporting hurling in OCP.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby private joker » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:13 pm

Your lucky your not from Tipperary or Cork!! A lot of their clubs are an hour away from semple and in cork up to nearly two hours travel time. Its literally down the road for all of Offaly. I agree the buzz is gone and I would not be blaming senior inter county managers, its the clubs that produce the players. In Dublin, there was no buzz around the hurling, that wasn't a reason not to coach players and have an interest in being the best you can be for your club. Also in Dublin, Parnell park is on the North side, all the hurling strong holds are on the south side. Where the matches are been played in all honestly makes no difference. It an excuse, and a bad one and that. You do realise that you wont be able to play Liam McCarthy hurling in either OC OR SBP.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby Truth as i see it » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:18 pm

greenairfield wrote:Maybe one of the reasons work isn't been done in clubs down here the interest has gone.
Why?
Maybe because the south Offaly clubs have lost touch wit hurling since the move to OCP.

The buzz is gone, and were getting hammered and you lot are happy to keep supporting hurling in OCP.


Are you Serious!!! is he Serious!!! :shock: :shock: The buzz is gone so hurling standards drop? good lord i can see now why we are where we are when guys like this on the county board, so its the buzz that has stopped the club from putting in the time to train up your coaches properly is it!!, teaching the kids the basics and educating them on new ideas such as nutrition and Strength and conditioning, no these things don't matter in the long term scheme of things, its the buzz that has stopped Birr winning a county title since 1998,(Foriegn Nationals, Playing in O'Connor park, Buzz is gone) your excuses are starting to mount up greenie, whats next, The modern day jerseys are made of the wrong stuff!!, The grass isn't cut at the right time of the year anymore!! Seriously i think the only problem with Birr and Offaly Hurling in some quarters is this pass the buck copout mentality who can't take the fact that the Hurling world has moved on and they can't accept it
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby greenairfield » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:40 pm

Truth as I see it

I have always said the main reason Birr suffered was the work wasn't been done.

But the coaches back when things were good had everything going for them, they had a primary school who had a huge flow of hurlers into the the Birr system, that flow isn't there anymore nore is the parish we once had. I'm not making excuses atal im just stating the odds are stacked against Birr.

We now have a committee who most clubs and even county would love to have but it is a big task this face and it will take time.

So just to clarify again I am not making excuses and we are not the only club that are suffering.

I just find it funny that clubs in South Offaly are suffering more since hurling was moved and that's a fact just look at all the club's and where they are now.

Guys on this forum most of whom all side with the OCP, all you have to do is look at the results in the poll set up all voting for Barry Cowen down there.

So to say this is the most bias website going is an understatement.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby Truth as i see it » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:23 pm

greenairfield wrote:Truth as I see it

I have always said the main reason Birr suffered was the work wasn't been done.

But the coaches back when things were good had everything going for them, they had a primary school who had a huge flow of hurlers into the the Birr system, that flow isn't there anymore nore is the parish we once had. I'm not making excuses atal im just stating the odds are stacked against Birr.

We now have a committee who most clubs and even county would love to have but it is a big task this face and it will take time.

So just to clarify again I am not making excuses and we are not the only club that are suffering.

I just find it funny that clubs in South Offaly are suffering more since hurling was moved and that's a fact just look at all the club's and where they are now.

Guys on this forum most of whom all side with the OCP, all you have to do is look at the results in the poll set up all voting for Barry Cowen down there.

So to say this is the most bias website going is an understatement.


Ok hang on, first up you say that the flow of hurlers aren't there any more, Why? if its emigration i can understand, every club, even town clubs have been effected by this but, aside from that i'm sorry but maybe its a case of the club not putting in the required work. its been pointed out previously that Na Fianna has been a real success story in North Offaly in the hurling code at underage and you can argue that its the rest of the clubs whose standards of dropped at underage or Na Fianna have raised their game but the fact is they had to put in the right coaching structures and heck of a lot of work to get the talent through that they have.
Fair enough you did acknowledge that the work was not being done previously and If Birr are starting to put in the work then i am delighted and i agree with those that say we need a strong Birr team (and every other team) to start competing as a force at county level again but lets not start kidding ourselves as to why we are where we are

As for the preceived notion of a bias towards O' Connor park i think you are missing the point completely. I personally have nothing against the team playing in St Brendan's park, there is obviously a passion down there for the game that is admirable in many ways and i am delighted to see Birr put in the hard work to bring the ground up to speck so that they can put forward their intention to host intercounty games in the future so fair play on that front but the thing that really annoys me is SBP supporters argument that Offaly are only capable of winning matches at SBP or that their are hurling fans in the south of the county only,this is complete and utter nonsense, if that were the case why would the team bother travelling to away matches if they don't believe they can win outside of Birr, pitches don't put balls over the bar or in the net, players do, Do the fans make a difference? of course they do and the fact that O' Connor park is half empty simply because "real hurling fans" don't like the stadium or location is childish in the exteme, your either an Offaly Supporter or your not and don't tell me i don't know anything about hurling because i'm from north Offaly because that's a load nonsense, its the same game wherever you go in the county or in the country
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby allstar2010 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:53 pm

I think it should be noted that this greenairfield fella is a poor representation of the great club that Birr has been down through the years. Birr always represented themselves so well when the entered the Leinster and All Ireland championships and their roll of honour is phenomenal. We as a county have always been so proud of them and the got massive support from all over the county just like Kk did in recent times. But Birr people, I feel will admit that the eye was taking off the ball at underage level and they are suffering now at adult level. I have no doubt though with the number of great clubmen in Birr they will get themselves back to the top again in the not so decent future.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby greenairfield » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:20 am

All star I did state Birr didn't put in the work which was required.

But clearly you just read what you wanted to read.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby Lone Shark » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:59 am

greenairfield wrote:So to say this is the most bias website going is an understatement.


You realise that just because 50% of contributors don't agree with you, that doesn't make it a biased forum? It merely means that you hold a minority view.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby Toxicity234 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:56 am

I like to see more games in South Offaly but the idea that Offaly hurling is down cause Birr messed up there pitch and it took them years to sort it is misleading.

The idea that the production line in Offaly has stop is also misleading as well.
The problem lie that our development squads/underage are ran by lads that are trying to make the players fit there system not trying to get the best out of and improve the players they have.
Players are getting piss off and leaving the squads and them the coach are saying that they not committed.

The idea that we need a strong Birr to be competitive at inter county level is wrong as well.
When we made the break through Birr were no where to be see at club level and have no players on the Offaly team and we made Leinster final after final.
Its far more important for Rynagh's and Clareen to produce players than Birr, The Clareen and Rynagh's players have been the steel that offaly team's were build on. Birr added to The Clareen and Rynagh's players in the late 80 and early 90's. but the only Birr players that had real Steel in his Blood was Johnny in Midfield.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby greenairfield » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:29 pm

Tox what a load of waffel..steel? We have plenty of steel now just not hurlers and if we didn't have Sid we would probably would of won noting in the 90s.


Lone shark if we done a survey where posters were from on this website we would find 80% of them are from K/K and further north, so yes it is bias to OCP.
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Re: What are they smoking in Birr?

Postby Lone Shark » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:31 pm

greenairfield wrote:Lone shark if we done a survey where posters were from on this website we would find 80% of them are from K/K and further north, so yes it is bias to OCP.


I'd say if you did a survey of the population of Offaly, a large majority (not 80% but not far off it) would come from K/K or further north, so that's hardly a bias, more a representation of the population as a whole. Secondly, if you are from Offaly, you are from Offaly, and our county football and hurling teams are your teams. You are entitled to feel vested in any or all of them, and as long as you pay your membership to your local club, you are entitled to speak your mind on how things are done in the county and to act towards whatever change you might like to see.

Secondly, people airing their views one way or another is how a forum works. The floor is open to anyone who wants to weigh in, but if the starting point is a presumption that people will blindly follow the prevailing viewpoint in their own locality, then there's not much point. I would never be so dismissive as to another poster's argument as to assume that they hold a certain point of view simply out of self-interest, I start from the basis that they are interested in the greater good of Offaly and go from there - and maybe if everyone afforded everyone else the same courtesy, we'd have a better forum all round.
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