What are they smoking in Birr?

[greenairfield]

You memtioned other teams around the county have came on leaps and bounds...which is great but this is at club level and these clubs have clearly not transfered this to county level cos we are struggling.So it's great that north clubs are doing well but with south clubs struggling Offaly are!
Birr have got to semi finals because there is work been done of course that's what we need most of all.
But not all south clubs are putting in work, and if hurling was in Birr these clubs that are stuggling you might still be able to get a player from them because of the intereste and identity of hurling back here.

[Towerus]

Ah now, divine right is pushing it a bit is it not? As I said already,when we keep hearing supporters, various committees and, more importantly, players and managers, identifying it as a missing link, and many players from both inside and outside our own county say it's simply a better sod to play on - what possible harm can it do to explore it further? Maybe they're all raving, and maybe they're not, but if it improves things, even a fraction, great, if it doesn't, we're no worse off than we were.

[Keiap]

So Kevin your point of north Offaly clubs having improved since the hurling was brought to ocp that's hypocritical because you have stated on many occasions that bringing the hurling back to birr would not improve hurling in the area.you actually don't have a clue what you talking about and again it's not your fault,it's just something we're born with something that's bleed into us,you just can't teach it to some people.so they spoof on and go against the grain just to be noticed..Kevin..
Lads if ye think 2,600 is very good for the 2nd and 3rd tier county finals what are ye smokin,4different clubs in the finals and of 3 of them it was there first team..

[Keiap]

A very good read kevin

[KeshaWantsTimber]

I just want to make one point on this issue. If there are people who won't travel to Tullamore to watch Offaly but will travel to Birr, are these the half hearted souls you would want to build an Offaly revival on?

[Offalys Future]

I just want to make one point on this issue. If there are people who won't travel to Tullamore to watch Offaly but will travel to Birr, are these the half hearted souls you would want to build an Offaly revival on?

Exactly.
there is pure rubbish been spoken about this and the sooner it's sorted the better.
My two pence worth is:

Offaly GAA county ground is O'Connor Park. O'Connor Park should host all inter-county games at all levels both league championship and any other competition that the county teams are entered in.
O'Connor Park should host all county finals in both codes and also should host county senior semi finals as double header.
Every other game should be shared between clubs in Offaly if they are able to host the game.

The county board need to come out with a strong statement on this and end any uncertainty.

as for Birr GAA Club. they need to quit the crusade on this and concentrate on what made their club great once. winning county titles. something they haven't done in VERY CLOSE TO 7 years now at any level.

[Keiap]

It's 6 years by the way,but ye lads over elaborate on everything..this year isn't over yet..

[greenairfield]

Offalys future Birr gaa are entitled to do what they want with there ground, all areas off the club are been covered at last!!
If you haven't noticed we have been granted Walsh cup games for next year, so the CB won't be coming out with a statement of the sort!
Offaly hurling needs to be rediscovered again and one of the ways of doing that is bringing hurling back to Birr.
Our county ground is OCP it is a much better stadium it would want to be the money that was used on it, it's a national ground also, that holds plenty of inter county matches so taking a couple of matches put of there isn't a huge loss!
I think Birr should be given a county semi final and the final next year it would be a great to see it!

[Lone Shark]

Okay - I'm busy over the weekend, starting tonight, and I've to get a rake of hedges clipped before then, but I'll go into this one more time. However it is getting repetitive now.

You memtioned other teams around the county have came on leaps and bounds...which is great but this is at club level and these clubs have clearly not transfered this to county level cos we are struggling.So it's great that north clubs are doing well but with south clubs struggling Offaly are!
Birr have got to semi finals because there is work been done of course that's what we need most of all.
But not all south clubs are putting in work, and if hurling was in Birr these clubs that are stuggling you might still be able to get a player from them because of the interest and identity of hurling back here.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc appears to apply here, though even that is incorrect. First of all, Offaly's decline at intercounty level was well underway before Birr was closed, however once again, we're left with ethereal ideas such as "identity" and "interest". It seems like every time we get into this debate, it keeps coming back to all these unquantifiable aspects.

So Kevin your point of north Offaly clubs having improved since the hurling was brought to ocp that's hypocritical because you have stated on many occasions that bringing the hurling back to birr would not improve hurling in the area.

I never said that bringing more games back to Birr wouldn't improve hurling in the area. Of course there would be a boost there - however what I haven't been able to decipher from any of these arguments is why the boost must go to the part of the county that arguably, needs it least. After all, as I keep getting told, the south is the hurling heartland don't you know.

Once more with feeling - some area in Offaly will benefit from having games on their doorstep, naturally. I just don't see why Offaly as a whole benefits more from it being one area as opposed to another, and nobody has made that clear.

Ah now, divine right is pushing it a bit is it not? As I said already,when we keep hearing supporters, various committees and, more importantly, players and managers, identifying it as a missing link, and many players from both inside and outside our own county say it's simply a better sod to play on - what possible harm can it do to explore it further? Maybe they're all raving, and maybe they're not, but if it improves things, even a fraction, great, if it doesn't, we're no worse off than we were.

Now we're into the realms of Truthiness. Yes there are supporters from Birr and environs saying this kind of thing, and yes some players have said it, while other players have said that they'd be happy to stay where they are. However I've gone through a lot of the county board meetings and notes, and to say that "various committees" have said this is a downright lie. I can't find one that has said it - I'm open to correction if you can show me a link or direct me to an actual report (and not from a makey-up "Bring hurling to Birr" committee!!).

Similarly, on the topic of the field, many players from outside the county have NOT said that Birr is better than Tullamore - at least not on the record. In contrast, there are several who have gone on the record as saying that Tullamore is an excellent surface - Eddie Brennan, Joe Canning, Anthony Cunningham and Ollie Baker are just four that said it while I was interviewing them - and while they didn't criticise Birr, again I cannot find any reference of any player from outside Offaly saying that the field in SBP is superior to that in OCP. Again, can you show me a link, or evidence of any kind?

I'd like to stress here that I'm not making any comments about the playing surface from my own perspective. The drainage issues in Birr were a huge problem in the past but I've been told that they've been taken care of, and the Walsh Cup games will corroborate/refute that in due course. However with the exception of Buck Face on here, the poster who was by far the best advocate for SBP I've heard online, in the local media or in person, I have yet to see anyone make a good case for why the field in Birr is so superior - nor anyone who has explained to me why that isn't a case for working on the field in O'Connor Park instead of simply upping sticks and moving most of our hurling down the N52.

That's before we allow for the fact that if the quality of the field was to be given overall primacy, you'd never see a game played in Pearse Stadium, Hyde Park or Wexford Park ever again.


Finally, I'll address the letter. I will reply to Mr Connolly himself in due course, since I would always encourage people to contact me if they have any issue with anything I write, and anyone who does so will get the courtesy of a response, if they so wish.

I've read, and re-read, the contents of the text over and over, and I'm struggling to find any substance in there, in truth. I appreciate he means well, however much of it is based on that old chestnut, belief. He speaks for a group of people without clarifying who they are, which would be welcome since not even the most ardent advocate of either position would pretend that there is unanimity in the county on this matter. He disagrees with me on the context of the hurling quarters - I remain convinced that it's comparing like with like, since any loss of numbers due to Birr mass would be more than compensated for by the fact that Saturday is a work day for far, far more people than Sunday is.

I've stated over and over why I feel that constant references to heartlands and the like are damaging - because it cuts off huge chunks of the county and creates a divide, implying that a voice from the south carries more weight than a voice from the north - I cannot, and will not, ever accept that point of view. Everything I write drives home this point, so it disappoints me that he feels the need to ask for my basis. I couldn't say it more clearly or more often. It similarly disappoints me that (1) he presumes that I don't talk to people north and south, which is certainly incorrect, and (2) that he feels the need to conclude with a personal slight - but naturally I can't do anything about the man's opinion.


On the general point, I will say this. I do not, and never have, approached this discussion from a dogmatic standpoint. Taking a starting position and defending it until the end of your days is clearly madness, and when I've been vocal in criticising blind adherence to old ways of thinking, I could hardly then dig my own heels in on this matter. When this debate started up, Birr was a badly run club, the ground wasn't certified to hold any meaningful crowd, ground rent was a factor, and the field tended to be unable to take any level of rainfall whatsoever. The facts have changed on two of those four points and when the Slattery report comes through, it's an odds on chance that the third will be different as well. As regards Birr being able to take heavy rain (a crucial issue for hosting games in January and February) well we'll only know when the time comes, but work has been done. Naturally, my view on what is or isn't beneficial and realistic has changed in accordance with that turnaround in the facts.

However when it comes to the debate, I've been greatly saddened - because of the tone of it. My reason is that it has been thick with condescension, at least in my direction it has been anyway. I've always adhered to the belief that the point of a debate is to thrash out the topic, to deal with the key topics and to share new information. I cannot stress enough how frustrating it has been to listen to some of the political style nonsense that has been spouted.

Allow me to explain. A person trying to win the hearts and minds of the audience in a debate will look to address the strongest points in their opponent's position. They will look for the pillars that hold up their argument, and see if they are robust enough to stand up to scrutiny. Somebody who just wants to get out alive will do no such thing - they will instead pick away at weak points around the fringes, making ad hominem attacks and taking their opportunities to draw a few cheap cheers from their own supporters. I've come into this debate with an open mind, but with a rare few exceptions, I haven't met with people who have tried to talk me around. I've had no shortage of people tell me that I'm not entitled to hold a contrary view because of my own useless playing career, or because of where I'm from, or that I'm a county board stooge. I've had people tell me that I just don't get it, but heaven forfend that they try and enlighten me. I would be happy to be convinced that returning a load of Offaly games to SBP would be a shot in the arm for Offaly hurling, because despite what many people believe, I am a bloody passionate Offaly supporter and I want nothing more than the success of our shared county. Convince me, and I'll back it all the way, because I want good news just as much as anyone.

Instead you get the likes of this - so you'll forgive me for feeling pangs of despair now and again.

you actually don't have a clue what you talking about and again it's not your fault,it's just something we're born with something that's bleed into us,you just can't teach it to some people.so they spoof on and go against the grain just to be noticed..Kevin..

[Keiap]

It's true in the south of the county is where you will get the majority of good natural hurlers like in the north you will get the footballers..it's no mistake that certain clubs and county's always have and always will be at the top..because it's there heritage..it's like in Kilkenny why are the fennellys so good the Larkins the powers and many more alike..its tradition,heritage when your a young fella it's all you get fed..ill go back to ocp vs birr.when you walk in birr that shiver down your neck the feeling in your stomach is unexplainable it's like when the Kilkennys,Kerry's and Dublin play in croker I can guarantee you they get the same feeling..I'm not taking away from and young fella from north Offaly playing for Offaly.any man has the right to wear the green,white and gold.yer the 1's who are bringing the likes of that up..ill say it to you 1 last time Kevin the difference in the pitches are birr is a quicker playing surface than ocp,which make for faster matches and better hurling..any1 who says different has never hurled on either

[Keiap]

Kevin

[NewEra]

Keiap - You are very hard to listen to. Your condescension is hard to bear.

[Keiap]

There my views your not forced to listen to them

[Keyser Soze]

It's true in the south of the county is where you will get the majority of good natural hurlers like in the north you will get the footballers..it's no mistake that certain clubs and county's always have and always will be at the top..because it's there heritage..it's like in Kilkenny why are the fennellys so good the Larkins the powers and many more alike..its tradition,heritage when your a young fella it's all you get fed..ill go back to ocp vs birr.when you walk in birr that shiver down your neck the feeling in your stomach is unexplainable it's like when the Kilkennys,Kerry's and Dublin play in croker I can guarantee you they get the same feeling..I'm not taking away from and young fella from north Offaly playing for Offaly.any man has the right to wear the green,white and gold.yer the 1's who are bringing the likes of that up..ill say it to you 1 last time Kevin the difference in the pitches are birr is a quicker playing surface than ocp,which make for faster matches and better hurling..any1 who says different has never hurled on either

As a total outsider, I'd have to say that the above post is the greatest load of auld bullshite I have ever read.
Although, several posts on here would give it a run for it's money.
A "faster playing surface".....how in the name of jaysus can you measure that?

As an outsider, if you're county ground is Tullamore, then all Intercounty Senior League and Championship, and Minior & U21 Championship matches should be played there.
Walsh Cup, tournament or challenge games should be spread around suitable club grounds. I would only know of Banagher and Birr. Maybe Kilcormac?
Club championship games should be spread around clubs capable of holding them.
Given the quality of the Birr stadium and pitch I would probably agree to playing both hurling semi finals there annually. Maybe.
But the county final should be played in the County ground.
Some Junior & intermediate, underage and B finals should be played in Birr and Banagher. I'm sure there are alternatives in the football area for a similar arrangement.

Birr seem to have spent a lot of money and made huge improvements- but they are not ENTITLED to anything in terms of home intercounty games at senior level.

Finally, what is the difference in relative pitch sizes?

[Keiap]

It's very easy play on both and you would know simple as that..don't spout on about something you have no knowledge on I've played many times on both different times of the year and they are different to play on..you can't tell me that every sod in the country is the same..outsider