All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Antrim v Offaly

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Ahlethimoutwithit
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Re: All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Antrim v Offaly

Post by Ahlethimoutwithit »

Well put Sam......I wish them the very best.

But underage is responsibility of all stake holders, not just County board.

At underage, clubs, schools face the responsibility of nurturing talent along with some support from the county board. I know what you meant and not meaning to be pedantic or anything.

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The Biff
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Re: All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Antrim v Offaly

Post by The Biff »

Toxicity234 wrote:A long drive but well worth it.
Not the greatest game of hurling you ever see but a win is a win.
....
The Sweeper system that was a big problem this year has been got rid off. thank god.
we still have problem with the sweeper system been played against us. mainly we don't know how to use the spare man it leaves us with.
....
Maybe I'm being a bit too simplistic here, but how about countering the opposition's Sweeper system by keeping our marker on their sweeper? If that means we effectively have 7 forwards on their 7 backs, I dont think the opposition manager would be too comfortable on the sideline. I reckon if we do have a spare man, he should always be looking for the ball, not be waiting to clear away the loose passes that happen to land in his "space". It's the same in Football with the "blanket defences"; nobody ever seems to mention that if 4 backs tackle 1 forward, then there must be 3 other forwards not doing enough to look for even a difficult pass.

Back on topic, this win is a good thing, no question. It does not fool anyone into thinking all is right in our world. It does not mean any of our systemic problems are solved or alleviated now. But that's for another group of people on another day. This was a great win, earned with patience and persistence. Well done to all, including and especially Brian Whelehan. Leadership was needed, and it was presented.
Peter Parker: I missed the part where that's MY problem.

backofthenet
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Re: All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Antrim v Offaly

Post by backofthenet »

The Biff wrote:
Toxicity234 wrote:A long drive but well worth it.
Not the greatest game of hurling you ever see but a win is a win.
....
The Sweeper system that was a big problem this year has been got rid off. thank god.
we still have problem with the sweeper system been played against us. mainly we don't know how to use the spare man it leaves us with.
....
Maybe I'm being a bit too simplistic here, but how about countering the opposition's Sweeper system by keeping our marker on their sweeper? If that means we effectively have 7 forwards on their 7 backs, I dont think the opposition manager would be too comfortable on the sideline. I reckon if we do have a spare man, he should always be looking for the ball, not be waiting to clear away the loose passes that happen to land in his "space". It's the same in Football with the "blanket defences"; nobody ever seems to mention that if 4 backs tackle 1 forward, then there must be 3 other forwards not doing enough to look for even a difficult pass.

Back on topic, this win is a good thing, no question. It does not fool anyone into thinking all is right in our world. It does not mean any of our systemic problems are solved or alleviated now. But that's for another group of people on another day. This was a great win, earned with patience and persistence. Well done to all, including and especially Brian Whelehan. Leadership was needed, and it was presented.
Well having 7 on 7 in your attack and 5 on 5 in your defense would be a big worry especially when one of your 7 is likely to be a back playing completely out of position.

Someone also made a point about players getting the chance playing championship hurling in July. Please remember we played Waterford & Cork at the same qualifier stage in prior years....this is no better or worse than every year for the past decade.

We always get through the first round generally due to the opposition being so weak before going out to generally a Munster team in the second qualifier.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Antrim v Offaly

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

The reason no-one plays with seven forwards is that to do so would clog up space in your attack. Remember forwards (god ones anyway) love space, love getting a ball in space, in which situation a score is more likely. The converse of this is that to play with five defenders would be the height of madness because of the gaps it would leave at the back.

Which is why, if both teams are reduced to 14 men, both should opt to operate with five forwards and six backs.

I do agree that if a ball-carrier is faced with three tacklers then there must be two teammates who are unattended. Thing is, one of the unattended team mates may be the 'last man back' who stays home while an inside forward drops back. And the ball-carrier may be facing away from his support runners and not in a position to link up. Said ball-carrier may also be unable to link up due to a lack of workrate or awareness of his teammates too.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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The Biff
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Re: All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Antrim v Offaly

Post by The Biff »

I know that playing 7 forwards is not sensible, but neither is leaving the opposition with their own "sweeper" if he is managing to clean up loads of easy possession. Thinking back to the Kilkenny game, we left Paul Murphy on his own in the Kilkenny rear-guard. After he had made his easy third clearance and our sweeper hadn't got a scrap, that was the time to change tack and go back to man-marking Murphy.

My Grand Plan - Given our present resources and situation, we don't expect to dominate many games or to take the lead in defining the structure of the formations of either teams. We should expect to be RE-actionary at first. Start with straight-forward man-to-man marking, work out who on the opposition is on their game that particular day, stay tight on those lads, then try to make hay against whoever is not so hot.

Now you can understand why I never played at a high level and only ever coached up to U12's. I know my limits. :?
Peter Parker: I missed the part where that's MY problem.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Antrim v Offaly

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

No,the problem with the way Offaly played the seventh defender wasn't so much that they left Paul Murphy free, but rather that they sent the ball down Murphy's channel too often. Also, Offaly played a corner-forward as a defender, rather than selecting, say, Chris McDonald at number 15 and letting him play in defence, as he is a defender, first and foremost.

That is not a slight on Kevin Connolly who i admire greatly. I note that Kevin replaced Ger Healion late in the game in Ballycastle and I am concerned that the Coolderry lad was played in defence. Can anyone who was there confirm or deny this?

Laois use the additional defender very well, in that they take scores from distance and use the extra defender to gain possession and create overlaps. They rarely bash the ball as far as it will go, which is as far as the loose opponent. That is the difference.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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joe bloggs
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Re: All-Ireland Hurling Qualifiers Round 1 Antrim v Offaly

Post by joe bloggs »

The Biff wrote:I know that playing 7 forwards is not sensible, but neither is leaving the opposition with their own "sweeper" if he is managing to clean up loads of easy possession. Thinking back to the Kilkenny game, we left Paul Murphy on his own in the Kilkenny rear-guard. After he had made his easy third clearance and our sweeper hadn't got a scrap, that was the time to change tack and go back to man-marking Murphy.

My Grand Plan - Given our present resources and situation, we don't expect to dominate many games or to take the lead in defining the structure of the formations of either teams. We should expect to be RE-actionary at first. Start with straight-forward man-to-man marking, work out who on the opposition is on their game that particular day, stay tight on those lads, then try to make hay against whoever is not so hot.

Now you can understand why I never played at a high level and only ever coached up to U12's. I know my limits. :?
If the cats followed your idea, then Murphy would follow connolly down the field. The reason they didn't send him down is simple. It wouldn't work to your advantage. By sitting back, Murphy could mop up aimless ball and start attacks, while not allowing Offaly attack 5 v 5 which is more desirable than 6 v 6. A major flaw in our tactic was using an excellent corner forward as a sweeper, and not a natural defender like rigney for example who sweeps for the whole of the kinnity defence in club games.
'if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem' J. McClean

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