Offaly v Kilkenny

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Killeighman
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Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by Killeighman »

I know there is junior next weekend but im not sure if senior is on

manfromdelmonte
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Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by manfromdelmonte »

Ger Loughnane wasn't far wrong so
only the best...

uibhfhaili
County player
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by uibhfhaili »

manfromdelmonte wrote:Ger Loughnane wasn't far wrong so
Loughnane is spot on. The likes of Regan throwing a big sulk on twitter again at GL. Regan's own son is involved with Leinster rugby which kinda symbolises where Offaly hurling is at.

Observant 7
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Club: Kinnitty

Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by Observant 7 »

uibhfhaili wrote:
manfromdelmonte wrote:Ger Loughnane wasn't far wrong so
Loughnane is spot on. The likes of Regan throwing a big sulk on twitter again at GL. Regan's own son is involved with Leinster rugby which kinda symbolises where Offaly hurling is at.
Sometimes when a real good hurler has taken a lot of shit they can turn to Rugby or Soccer, so maybe you should get to know the real stories before you start printing your opinions.

As for Danny Owens Tox leading Offaly, if he is such a great Manager why is your club Kilcormac Killoughey not with an All Ireland to their name or even got anywhere near one this year?

Put Dunne on the management that will help and take off Coughlan & Troy and I guess Whelehan although I believe rightly or wrongley he is not making all the decisions himself in managing Offaly he did state at the start he would not be if I recall he said something like the other lads Coughlan & Troy were going to be in with him on the Managers job - just can't recall the exact words!!

Toxicity234
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Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by Toxicity234 »

As for Danny Owens Tox leading Offaly, if he is such a great Manager why is your club Kilcormac Killoughey not with an All Ireland to their name or even got anywhere near one this year?

I'm sorry what?? Whelehan wasn't able to get Camros near a Laois title. Owens has 2 county title and one Lenister title.
He a fucking a hell of a lot closer to winning anything than Whelehan has ever come.
Put Dunne on the management that will help and take off Coughlan & Troy and I guess Whelehan although I believe rightly or wrongley he is not making all the decisions himself in managing Offaly he did state at the start he would not be if I recall he said something like the other lads Coughlan & Troy were going to be in with him on the Managers job - just can't recall the exact words!!
All 3 have to go. the idea that Dunne is the cause of Kilcomac Killoughey winning game and When they lose it Owens fault this complete BULLSHIT.
Management is a team. They win as a team and they lose as a team.
I gave gone to walsh and league games and other games, Their is no question whelehan is making the decisions himself.

This is what a laois man said about Whelehan yesterday on anyother site.
Yep, shouldn't have been appointed. He did nothing with Camross and left a bad taste there, plenty were wary when he was appointed. The county board have to take the fall for this though, they're useless and haven't put in the structure and groundwork other counties have. Offaly are being left behind, and at the moment probably behind Laois. There's the makings of a good team at the moment if the right manager is in place, but things aren't looking good at underage level. Worrying looking towards the future
“Common sense is not so common.”

GreatDayForTheParish
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Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by GreatDayForTheParish »

Among the very worst days. It scarcely gets much worse than that second half sitting in Nolan Park, listening to Kilkenny people cheer Tommy Walsh drive ball after ball wide.

People's anger here towards the sweeper system is a complete red herring. A totem pole for people unable to delve any deeper in to the reading of a game. Think about it for a second, for a moment, without the benefit of hindsight. You're the manager of an Offaly team that has made no progress during the previous 15 years of 'man to man' hurling. You're travelling to Kilkenny, to play Kilkenny with a full back and centre back who have practically never played these roles before at inter county championship level. Both Clare and Dublin have operated sweeper systems in recent years, both with success. Surely it seems reasonable therefore, to do what was done and to make an effort to do something different, to try and keep things tight at all costs in that first half. If the sweeper wasn't used and the same result followed - the manager would be massacred. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned by the fools. That it didn't work was due to Kilkenny's movement and speed in keeping the ball away from Connolly, them blasting wind aided 40+ yard range points repeatedly over his head and our lamentable inability to deliver even remotely reasonable ball to our two man full forward line. The sheer number of useless, aimless balls that didn't even clear the free Paul Murphy remains an terrible indictment of our midfield and half forward line. Those who think the use of the sweeper system alone were the reason Offaly lost yesterday are deluded.

The rest of the match barely merits analysis, Kilkenny were so utterly dominate in every facet of the game. Their movement yesterday was frightening. On the ball, off the ball - our players were chasing shadows. Their striking was sublime. Points from beyond the 40 and passes hit crisply at speed to a teammate moving at speed. Our midfield and half forward line were annihilated- Kilkenny won 46 puckouts. Jesus.

Well done to Brian Carroll, a hurler I have great time for, who was sublime with 1-5 from play. Hanniffy and Dempsey too. For Brian and Rory, days like this it make it harder to go the well year after year. The Ballyhale man and Kilkenny writer PM O'Sullivan had some nice pieces in yesterdays programme. A paragraph of his on Rory Hanniffy caught the eye. I will reproduce it here:

''As it happens, Offaly have their own issues with this position (full back). Injury to both Paul Cleary and David Kenny has tugged all slack from the rope. One possibility is that into the breach on square's edge will step Rory Hanniffy, a terrific servant over many years from wing back to wing forward.
Indulge a digression about this man. He has never received sufficient acclaim. Hanniffy's prime would have seen him starting on any team in Ireland, including the Kilkenny one of 2008. A coaching video could centre on his strokeplay.
Rory Hanniffy, but for lack of exposure, would nigh be discussed in the same terms as Ken McGrath. Markedly different styles, of course, but the same status as supreme hurlers who did not land, no fault of their own, a Celtic Cross. Such figures set important example.''


True, all true. He performed admirably yesterday in a crucial position he has no experience in. That paragraph was about as good as it got on what was a red banner day for Offaly hurling.

Toxicity234
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:26 pm

Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by Toxicity234 »

GreatDayForTheParish wrote: People's anger here towards the sweeper system is a complete red herring. A totem pole for people unable to delve any deeper in to the reading of a game. Think about it for a second, for a moment, without the benefit of hindsight. You're the manager of an Offaly team that has made no progress during the previous 15 years of 'man to man' hurling. You're travelling to Kilkenny, to play Kilkenny with a full back and centre back who have practically never played these roles before at inter county championship level. Both Clare and Dublin have operated sweeper systems in recent years, both with success. Surely it seems reasonable therefore, to do what was done and to make an effort to do something different, to try and keep things tight at all costs in that first half. If the sweeper wasn't used and the same result followed - the manager would be massacred. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, damned by the fools. That it didn't work was due to Kilkenny's movement and speed in keeping the ball away from Connolly, them blasting wind aided 40+ yard range points repeatedly over his head and our lamentable inability to deliver even remotely reasonable ball to our two man full forward line. The sheer number of useless, aimless balls that didn't even clear the free Paul Murphy remains an terrible indictment of our midfield and half forward line. Those who think the use of the sweeper system alone were the reason Offaly lost yesterday are deluded.

Where to start with this. We tried a Sweeper for the last 3 months. It wasn't a surprise or something that Kilkenny had to ajust to. It didn't work against Cork, Limerick, Antrim, Waterford, Clare or Dublin.
as for Morkan and Hanniffy playing full and centre. that the management own fault. Sean Coughlan. Murphy. Shortt, Kelliher. Peter Healion and Ger Healion are all better Central Defender than Hanniffy and Morkan.
GreatDayForTheParish wrote:''As it happens, Offaly have their own issues with this position (full back). Injury to both Paul Cleary and David Kenny has tugged all slack from the rope. One possibility is that into the breach on square's edge will step Rory Hanniffy, a terrific servant over many years from wing back to wing forward.
Indulge a digression about this man. He has never received sufficient acclaim. Hanniffy's prime would have seen him starting on any team in Ireland, including the Kilkenny one of 2008. A coaching video could centre on his strokeplay.
Rory Hanniffy, but for lack of exposure, would nigh be discussed in the same terms as Ken McGrath. Markedly different styles, of course, but the same status as supreme hurlers who did not land, no fault of their own, a Celtic Cross. Such figures set important example.''


True, all true. He performed admirably yesterday in a crucial position he has no experience in. That paragraph was about as good as it got on what was a red banner day for Offaly hurling. .


yeah he is a great midfield and a great hurler but we have enough hurler in the county for full back so we can play him in midfield.
“Common sense is not so common.”

Don Hurley
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Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by Don Hurley »

I'm from Dublin and now living in Offaly but am still connected to Dublin hurling. Was at the game yesterday and have been reading the posts here. I don't feel the same anger and upset as many Offaly hurling people must do because I am not so connected but I have been observing Offaly hurling closely and I'd like to make a few comments.

Offaly inter-county hurling is in a poor state and its clear that Brian Whelahan is not able to make the most of what exists. It was sad to see him yesterday, at times left completely alone and head down. Even before I came to Offaly I regarded him as the greatest hurler I had ever seen and he deserves to be both regarded in this light and because off the field he is not so strong, he deserves to be protected. Its clear that he should not have been appointed manager and exposed to this humiliation.

Its also clear that even with the best manager possible and as much resources as the county senior team would want, that this current group of players would not be able to really challenge Kilkenny without several years of development. This development would include strength, conditioning, skills and team work/strategy. Offaly is as weak at under-age levels as at senior. Also on the difficulty side is that Offaly has a relatively small hurling population base with obvious migration pressures.

I do see a number of positives though:

1. The upsurge in confidence in the few days before yesterday's match was obviously misplaced, but was not just pure wishful thinking. It came from some sort of deep belief, buttressed by actually winning AIs in living memory. We don't have this in Dublin and its a very high mountain to climb. That is still here in Offaly and can be built on.
2. There are excellent clubs in Offaly - this isn't just a throwaway comment. It is something to build on.
3. There are a lot of passionate people in and around Offaly hurling, who may have their heads low now, but would put energy and money into efforts to strengthen hurling here.

All of this needs a clear plan. A plan that takes on board the reality of where Offaly hurling is and sets out something that all concerned can find a place to contribute to. This needs leadership, i.e. people with energy and vision who can attract support. The practicality of the plan isn't the hardest bit. Such a plan would need several years and would contain achievable objectives around: skills development, physical conditioning, experience of playing etc, and the practical infrastructure: pitches, physio care, money.

Falling into bitterness and recrimination is understandable but actually childish because it traps everyone in a cycle of blame and dissipates and wastes energy. It is actually the antithesis of what is needed: the vision to lead at a critical juncture. In another context this is called "growing up".

KillougheyGoBragh
County player
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Club: KK

Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by KillougheyGoBragh »

I know it is very easy to be critical, no matter where we look at yesterdays contest we can find fault, be it, with players or management alike.
Kilkenny just murdered us, there was blood everywhere and unfortunately it was all ours.
The only thing we won yesterday was the 'toss' and our decision to play against the wind in the first-half was a mis-calculated risk and after 15 minutes our Leinster Championship was over. We were tactically very naive as anything that we could get in our favour, at any stage, should have been grasped with both hands.
We never got competitive in any position, it may look as if we did but that was when Kilkenney allowed us to and when the game, as a viable contest, was over.
Where to now?
Everyone, up and down the country, knows where Offaly GAA is at, sadly and most importantly, so does those that will become our future, and its with and around those young men and women that Offaly must invest their scarce resources.
We have to, slowly, win back the hearts and minds of our youth and those that support them on a daily basis.
Build in conjunction with parents and schools partnerships to promote hurling and football and make coaching workshops available locally to educate the many.
People talk about Kilkenny losing the 2000 Leinster minor final to Offaly, after winning the previous nine, as the spark to make monumental changes to their underage structures last Wednesday Kilkenny U21 were well beaten by Wexford and already structures are under scrutiny within Kilkenny.
Useless waste of time fighting amongst ourselves it is time to put up or shut up!

Buttons
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Club: Club

Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by Buttons »

Seen this tweet by Niall Mc

I'm leaving Kilkenny feeling very sorry for them...a lot of very good hurlers but don't have the backing to get the best out of themselves

babsandbond
Senior
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:16 pm
Club: carrig

Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by babsandbond »

Surely the county board know themselves they don't have the backing of the players or supporters...We need fresh faces and fresh ideas..The 45k should be giving to a guy outside the county a director of hurling and football and let him try sort out this mess..

Kevin
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Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by Kevin »

Don Hurley wrote:I'm from Dublin and now living in Offaly but am still connected to Dublin hurling. Was at the game yesterday and have been reading the posts here. I don't feel the same anger and upset as many Offaly hurling people must do because I am not so connected but I have been observing Offaly hurling closely and I'd like to make a few comments.

Offaly inter-county hurling is in a poor state and its clear that Brian Whelahan is not able to make the most of what exists. It was sad to see him yesterday, at times left completely alone and head down. Even before I came to Offaly I regarded him as the greatest hurler I had ever seen and he deserves to be both regarded in this light and because off the field he is not so strong, he deserves to be protected. Its clear that he should not have been appointed manager and exposed to this humiliation.

Its also clear that even with the best manager possible and as much resources as the county senior team would want, that this current group of players would not be able to really challenge Kilkenny without several years of development. This development would include strength, conditioning, skills and team work/strategy. Offaly is as weak at under-age levels as at senior. Also on the difficulty side is that Offaly has a relatively small hurling population base with obvious migration pressures.

I do see a number of positives though:

1. The upsurge in confidence in the few days before yesterday's match was obviously misplaced, but was not just pure wishful thinking. It came from some sort of deep belief, buttressed by actually winning AIs in living memory. We don't have this in Dublin and its a very high mountain to climb. That is still here in Offaly and can be built on.
2. There are excellent clubs in Offaly - this isn't just a throwaway comment. It is something to build on.
3. There are a lot of passionate people in and around Offaly hurling, who may have their heads low now, but would put energy and money into efforts to strengthen hurling here.

All of this needs a clear plan. A plan that takes on board the reality of where Offaly hurling is and sets out something that all concerned can find a place to contribute to. This needs leadership, i.e. people with energy and vision who can attract support. The practicality of the plan isn't the hardest bit. Such a plan would need several years and would contain achievable objectives around: skills development, physical conditioning, experience of playing etc, and the practical infrastructure: pitches, physio care, money.

Falling into bitterness and recrimination is understandable but actually childish because it traps everyone in a cycle of blame and dissipates and wastes energy. It is actually the antithesis of what is needed: the vision to lead at a critical juncture. In another context this is called "growing up".
Thank you Don Hurley for taking the time out to post these objective, level headed thoughts. A lot to chew on there.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

backofthenet
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Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by backofthenet »

It's hard to know where to start after such a hammering. What sets this game apart from other Kilkenny mailings is how soon we were found out, we normally stay with Kilkenny for 30-40 minutes...yesterday it was 5.

Right now is not the time for knee jerk reactions. There were positives from yesterday however a lot of them highlighted the massive negatives! For example the performance of Brian Carroll was sensational he one handedly helped keep the scoreboard tick over and 1-18 is not a bad inter county score. The negative it highlights is how we have been playing him in the wrong position for nearly a decade, how far Shane Dooleys performances have fallen, in his pomp we could have expected a big contribution from play, Also the loss of Egan I think was massive we simply didn't compete under our own puck out...a problem we have had for at least a decade at this stage!! We seem to be only ever get one forward to perform on any given day when we need 2-3 to get a big result.

The sweeper system I am happy for Offaly to try...lord knows we need to try something!! What I don't understand is the use of Kevin Connolly? He's a small, weak, forward and has little or no experience in the position..I'm not having a go at Kevin personally he could easily warrant a position on the team at corner forward but playing him anywhere else is pure madness! Surely a Kevin Brady, Conor Mahon or even Rory Hanniffy would've perfect for this position???!!!

Again defense is something we are struggling big time with, again a lot due to picking Rory hanniffy and James Rigney on the full backline, A lot of the Kilkenny goals were scored due to the entire full back line naively going towards the ball leaving space in behind, I know we had personnel missing due to injury but we badly missed experience in both lines of defense.

The half backline again needed experience, Harding only a few county games,Parlon only a few times at wing back and Del first time in the position. Add to this an inexperienced sweeper and it was always going to be tough.

So where do we go from here. We can talk all day about this or that lad standing aside but from here to the end of the season that talk will have no positive effect.

For me I think we need to regroup start playing the best player for the best position, we need to try and spark the players interest, play a round of club games and have it known that every club player has a chance of being called up based on their performances. Then ACT on it, let the players loose in training and try to get as close to championship intensity in training every evening.

Finally treat the players with 100% respect, that's from both the county board and the supporters - These lads give their time and effort for very little they shouldn't have to suffer abuse from hurlers on the ditch!!

sam88885a
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Club: kk

Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by sam88885a »

good post backofthenet i think if we had to play a sweeper rory was the ideal man . i dont think a sweeper ever work in hurling.
j bergin is not happy at wing forward maybe he should have gone to midfield . dooley was not happy at full forward . we could have gone with g healion at full back k brady at centre back mahon at centre forward and currams at full forward . with d morkam and rory around the mid field area .
kilkenny would have still won but it was clear we all the match up all wrong before the ball was thrown in .
i listen to the game on kclr couldnt make do to work and the kilkenny lads were saying from the start leaving p murphy unmarked was madness .
the also said how ruteless brian coady was taking off young kennedy after 20 minutes when b carroll scored a few points off him.
the laughted at whelahan decision to put morkam on m fennelly when he had not the height or the power for him .
the said kilkenny were like the all blacks relentless and offaly were not anywhere championship hurling level .
one guy said it reminded him of kilkenny in 05 06 when the were unbeatable .

Droichead Binéid
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Re: Offaly v Kilkenny

Post by Droichead Binéid »

The writing has been on the wall for a while. I read down through a lot of well put and well thought out quotes. Each posting in my opinion is correct in so far as there needs to be a new direction presented to club hurlers who desire to play at county level.
There needs to be a 1 to 3 year plan drawn up real swiftly, or Offaly will be competing in the Lory Meagher Cup in the coming seasons, with all due respect to the weaker counties who are developing their players in this competition, working in the core skills of the game, developing energy, commitment, and understanding the visions of others.
As an outsider looking in... and with the respect they deserve, the current county board needs to be petitioned out and a whole new front bench installed. There's an old saying that goes "you'll always get what you've always got if you always do what you always did"... and I've heard it said that the true definition of madness is "doing exactly the same thing every time but expecting different results".
No one needs to add to the disappointment that the panel of lads who tog out for the county might be feeling for the short while of this week, rally around the club... bring it back to core club values... club is family.. get it right there and the panel will take care of itself.

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