Accountability

[kingscounty]

I have seen a few mentions of Colm Cummins here and I have to say that he has done some good work in Edenderry . He was appointed chairman at a young age something like 30 or 31 I could be wrong and at the start edenderry were relegated to intermediate in football and had been beaten in a lot of semi finals in junior A hurling . At one of the AGM meetings the committee decided to draw up a 5 or 10 year plan cant remember exactly but within this goals were set out like getting back up to senior level and developing underage hurling and football. Also things like the club image , how the GAA could encourage people to get involved and make the GAA appeal to the people of the town. They introduced the Go Games system and it was met with some resistance from the old guard but to my knowledge its still going strong , cul redz was set up to cater for underage kids u6,u8,u10,u12 football and they got hundreds of kids down every week end, this year they are starting cul redz for hurling to cater for the same underage groups. They also had a few sessions in the housing estates in the town , they would go to different local estates on a Saturday morning and set up goals and drills for hurling and football and the kids would come out and get a taste of both codes all within the comfort of their own homes. Walks, awards nights, parade floats, were all arranged throughout the year and money was given by edenderry gaa to the local parish centre as a gesture, all these things get people of the area interested and involved. Now I know one big factor as to how Edenderry gaa could fund some of this was because there is rent coming in from a temporary school in the gaa grounds , but from this the dressing rooms were updated , and now there is an all weather pitch in the pipe line behind the goals one end with a running track around it. The club as far as I know are debt free , they could have gone wild and spent money buying land and not developing underage hurling and football but they stayed put. I would like to see edenderry field a minor hurling team in the near future as its been to long since they have , if cul redz hurling takes off I have no doubt in few years time they will. Im not saying who should be chairman or who shouldn't be but we need people with vision and people who are in it for the long hall because Offaly GAA is badly damaged at the minute and it is going to take along time to turn it around. We need younger more forward thinking guys and gals to come forward , tech, financial and up with the times people. Before we see any improvement on the field we need to get our house in order first . Just to add something to atlethimoutwithit comments about getting lads in their 20s to go into schools, edenderry gaa have a full time coach in the schools doing football over the past few years and also have a lad doing a few hours of hurling each week to and it seems to be working well. I know from personal experience my game developed great from doing hurling and football in school every break time and the teacher making leagues and of course the schools competitions. BTW im not saying Edenderry GAA is perfect as no club is but at least they are making a good effort at trying new things .

[old yellar]

lads, people have been pointing out things in offaly for a minimum of 10 years now, yet it hasnt changed. I m left 7 years now and the cracks were ther for all to see before then. I personally think ye need to get away from the old boys menatlity in the hurling - employ proper coaches/managers form wherever and go with them rather than looking at a list of medal winners. i text a laois panelist last night about their game and about our game v kerry and hopefully ye. He made the point that Camross won the laois title the year after Bw left yet ye took him on! the reverance to the past has to end.
As regards john leahy and his part in this. well i d defend this man to the end having solderied with him on squads. 8/9 years ago i was involved for a yr or 2. Ya couldnt get anyone involved! i went to an u14 trial on my own, had to pick 2 teams and ref a match. Only for a parent got involved on the night i was snookered. No one wanted in. So ye reap what ye sow. Then one club asked me not to play their players on a saturday in the tony forristal as they had a club match on monday! But heh look its no different down here now. We d 10 at an u15 training this wknd and mentors are thin on the ground. So it cant all be johns fault. Birr Cs are dropping down to B grade in all comps as far as i know. The north offaly team seems to be dying a death also - only 2 from the school in banagher committed to the panel as far as i m aware. So theres a need for joined up thinking up there rather than looking out for ones own area.
Laois and carlow are not in better shape than ye in my opinion as a hurling county. we re on a crest of a wave at the min but in 2/3 years we ll be easy talk too. I cant see ye decline that far. There is a need for huge time investment alright but it needs to be matched by what goes on in clubs. County squads only get lasd at 14 up. so if the hold the hurl wrong, cant strike off both sides etc, its v hard for a county squad to do the work they should if they have to correct this.

[azoffaly]

lads, people have been pointing out things in offaly for a minimum of 10 years now, yet it hasnt changed. I m left 7 years now and the cracks were ther for all to see before then. I personally think ye need to get away from the old boys menatlity in the hurling - employ proper coaches/managers form wherever and go with them rather than looking at a list of medal winners. i text a laois panelist last night about their game and about our game v kerry and hopefully ye. He made the point that Camross won the laois title the year after Bw left yet ye took him on! the reverance to the past has to end.
As regards john leahy and his part in this. well i d defend this man to the end having solderied with him on squads. 8/9 years ago i was involved for a yr or 2. Ya couldnt get anyone involved! i went to an u14 trial on my own, had to pick 2 teams and ref a match. Only for a parent got involved on the night i was snookered. No one wanted in. So ye reap what ye sow. Then one club asked me not to play their players on a saturday in the tony forristal as they had a club match on monday! But heh look its no different down here now. We d 10 at an u15 training this wknd and mentors are thin on the ground. So it cant all be johns fault. Birr Cs are dropping down to B grade in all comps as far as i know. The north offaly team seems to be dying a death also - only 2 from the school in banagher committed to the panel as far as i m aware. So theres a need for joined up thinking up there rather than looking out for ones own area.
Laois and carlow are not in better shape than ye in my opinion as a hurling county. we re on a crest of a wave at the min but in 2/3 years we ll be easy talk too. I cant see ye decline that far. There is a need for huge time investment alright but it needs to be matched by what goes on in clubs. County squads only get lasd at 14 up. so if the hold the hurl wrong, cant strike off both sides etc, its v hard for a county squad to do the work they should if they have to correct this.

This is a good point. The clubs have a big responsibility to ensure their players are as skilled up as possible going in to Development Squads. Development squads will help the players, ahem, develop but if you are trying to show a bunch of 14 year olds how to strike from the hand or off the hurley you are at nothing. Development squads are about performing the skills in a higher paced environment, learning tactical appreciation and exposure to good coaching, good teammates and good opposition.

[Lone Shark]

I'm a little bit compromised when it comes to this debate in the sense that I'd be on first name terms with most of the county board management committee, due to my line of work, and for that reason I'd be slow to criticise with broad brush strokes, since you do get to see the human side of things when you get to know the people involved.

I will say this, which is in agreement with the tone of both Ahlethimoutwithit and Bord na Mona man above - there certainly isn't any great rush to fill these positions and I think some people on here would be surprised by the amount of people on the county board who would be quite happy to step aside if they felt that there was somebody coming in who had the energy and the drive to do the job better, and who had spent the time needed to get the hang of the cut and thrust of GAA administration. Obviously it would be foolish to put a raw person with no committee experience straight into the role of Chairman, Secretary or Treasurer, but some of the posters on this board would be amazed with how quickly they could find themselves on the inside of the tent in other roles if they wanted to - it's really not a closed shop by any means.

However once they got there, they would learn firsthand of the amount of energy that's required to simply perform your day to day duties. We do have a disproportionate amount of public and civil servants on our boards, but that is for very good reason - these are the only people who are able to essentially give first call to their duties with Offaly. You might say some of them aren't getting great results, but if you ask anyone who fulfilled any of the meaningful roles and they'll tell you that they could only do it because they were in a job where if they needed to down tools and look after something GAA related, they could do so 90% of the time. The actual day to day administration of a county is an immense task and one of my huge bugbears with it is that like so many other roles in the GAA, there's really little or no room for casual involvement. You can't get on board and say that you won't take 50 calls a week, because you will get them and you can't do the job if you won't take them. Unless you take on something like Fixtures Secretary, Secretary, or chairman, in which case you can probably bump that up to 100 calls a week.

I'm not going to defend every decision that's been taken and certainly I'd agree that the removing of Paul O'Kelly was an absolute humdinger of a blunder that we're paying for to this very day. There were other calls too that were got spectacularly wrong - but if there were a queue of people lining up to get involved and they were being told "thanks but no thanks" then I'd look on this situation very differently. A greater mix of personality types would probably be welcome - there are a lot of people involved who look to avoid confrontation, who are all about getting things done as efficiently as possibly and simply looking after the day to day. That tends to be an outlook that is much more prevalent in the public service. Your private sector innovators, in general, tend to be much more about long term strategy, beating the competition and trying to look to the future and and place themselves in the best manner possible. It's probably fair to say that we have a lot of the former, and not enough of the latter, on board right now.

[kinnittyman]

There’s so many levels to this debate it would be absolutely futile to try and address them all but I would like to refer back to the underage squads Laois have.

Getting young kids in from under 10 into development squads is essential if we are going to take a long term strategic view of our current situation. Bring them from u10 all the way through to minor. Initially focus on the skills and as they go through the age groups introduce tactics, game plans, strength and conditioning, diet and lifestyle. These players are then gradually introduced to the nuances of hurling incrementally while at the same time having a game plan in place from say, under 14 level. It’s not that difficult and young kids absolutely love tactical innovation in their teams.

Obviously getting volunteers might be an issue but I would urge the county board to do the following: Contact every primary school /secondary school teacher in Offaly who is promoting hurling in their schools and see if they are interested in getting involved in a team from U10 through to U16. These people should have good communication skills and be able to convey messages in a thorough fashion. A pre-designed template on what each group needs to work on would be supplied so the coaches know their aims with the kids.e.g. U10’s can develop the ability to strike off both sides, should always be on the move when striking etc. With the time off in the summer I’m sure many would lend a hand and many would also have their coaching courses done. (If not supply a day where those who don’t could get up to speed). Parents or close relations of children on the panels should not have any involvement with a panel their child is on.

As everyone is correct in saying there is no short term solution but we have to do something starting from NOW.

[KillougheyGoBragh]

We are all stakeholders in the future of our young people.
This is such an important cultural and social debate!
Its just not the physical concept of being able to compete but also the mental well-being that such competing affords us as a group be we players, coaches, administrators or spectators
The very fabric of our whole existence as a community group is being brought into question.
The complexity of the issues that are weighing on everybodys shoulders makes it look as if they are incompetent at their task.
We are amateurs trying to operate in a professional role with amatuer constraints.
Does Offaly have a basic Strategic Plan? like this one from Antrim here
Does our individual Clubs have Club Plans like this one from Clonaslee St Manmans

[jimbob17]

Interesting debate lads all round..... I hope Mr Chairman is reading this and now finally realising that the whole place thinks the county board is a total joke..... They are in the dark ages on every level and not a clue of how or what is required to train a county team in modern times.... a starting point might be to put decent underage structures in place.... And then properly resource the senior teams..... If that was done it only gives us a chance of being competitive, possibly increasing the attendances and reducing the risk of having to disassociate with board members and cower away in the corner of the stand....

Its been a long time coming but D Day is almost here and the administration really needs to just step aside in October and let some fresh blood in....

I think it might be an idea for clubs to organise a protest against the board at the next game against Carlow ?Kerry.... Show our support for the players but also show our disapproval of the shambles that is our administration.... If it was a business, theyd have got the sack years ago....

We are now officially a laughing stock.... Numerous hurling panelists have walked the plank... We have been insulted by Ger Loughnane (rightly) for our levels of fitness and not won a game between hurling and football in 2014 in Div 3 football and 1B hurling (the first Antrim team was their U21s and few intermediates).....

[Kevin]

as for with all the debate about where the hurling should be played, after this year with the footballers in division 4 and maybe the hurlers in division 2 A O'Connor park will be one big lonely place come next years home games, as i said before you can have a double header with the footballers and the hurlers in Geashill next year with the crowd that will be watching it sad times indeed

Townman take a bow, looks like the Independent got a kick out of your doubleheader in Geashill quip enough to put it in the paper along with a reference to uibhfhaili.com:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling ... 43072.html

CLIONA FOLEY – PUBLISHED 01 APRIL 2014 02:30 AM

For the past few years Offaly hurling folk, predominantly from the south of the county, have been arguing that their hurlers should return to playing their home games at a redeveloped Birr.

On the uibhaili.com discussion board yesterday, one disgusted supporter suggested that the county's status and morale is now so low that Offaly could feasibly play their inter-county matches as double-headers in Geashill next year and still have plenty of room.

A one-point defeat by Limerick last weekend meant that their footballers, who won promotion from Division 4 last year in Emmet McDonnell's first year in charge, have already been consigned back to the bottom tier with one game left.

Worse still is the fact that the county's hurlers are now clinging on to their Division 1 status by the skin of their teeth.

Losing the Division 1B relegation battle to Antrim means they must now beat the winners of Division 2A (Carlow or Kerry, who meet in Thurles next Sunday) to survive the ignominy of dropping into hurling's third tier.

There were some mitigating circumstances in Ballycastle as Offaly were without three key defenders – David Kenny, Rory Hanniffy and Derek Morkham.

New manager Brian Whelahan and selectors John Troy and Ger Coughlan have taken over a transitional side and given NHL debuts to Niall Wynne, Dan Kelleher, Conor Doughan, Brian Watkins, Peter and Thomas Geraghty, Stephen Quirke, Damien Egan, Conor Slevin and Garry Conneely.

SURVIVAL

But fears about Offaly's survival in Division 1 were always raised once they lost to neighbours Laois in the opening round.

Only last week Offaly's minor hurlers were beaten by Carlow and last summer they took an unmerciful pummelling at the hands of Laois (4-16 to 0-13).

The county still hasn't appointed an U-21 hurling manager and the county board has come in for some heavy criticism for its lack of innovation.

Daithi Regan, who was a selector when Offaly lost a league game to Carlow in 2005, says it is time for the county to accept its place in hurling's new order and adapt to the game's new way.

"It's not the managers who are at fault," he says.

"Joe Errity is managing the minors and doing everything he can and I'm sure Brian Whelahan is the same. Both of them are intelligent hurling men who have been brave enough to put themselves on the line to try to change things.

"But the reality is that hurling has moved on and Offaly needs to move on with it.

"When I first said that Dublin had overtaken us, I got hammered for it because there's a snobbish element in parts of Offaly about hurling.

"But Dublin have been better than us for a long time and Laois have now moved ahead of us with a game that is much more structured than ours."

Regan says hit-and-hope is no longer enough to combat the game's sophisticated new systems.

"Kilkenny figured out how to beat Cork's running game and they were on top for so long with their power game, but Tipperary and Galway both found ways to counter that," he says.

"Now we've got Clare who are playing a game that's alien to everything else and everyone has to figure that out.

"From what I've seen of Offaly this year we're playing a spare defender, but that's not going to cut it unless you play like Clare, where everyone from two to 10 is able to do so many different things when they're not on the ball and also deliver the perfect ball to their forwards.

"You can't hit it aimlessly out of defence any more, you've got to have a much more systematic, structured game and that's what we've got to develop."

Regan points to the way that Clare unashamedly studied Kilkenny's structures before overhauling their underage coaching systems.

It seems no coincidence that Laois, with their innovative 'Cu Chulainn' underage programme, have also taken a similarly systematic approach to developing their teen players.

Regan says Offaly is now at a crossroads.

"A lot of time and development work has been lost and we're playing serious catch-up but please God people will wake up to our problems now and get working on developing a systemic, structured approach to playing and coaching," he says.

So far this year Offaly's only victory in the NFL and NHL was their hurlers' 'dead rubber' victory over Antrim, though they did draw with Limerick.

At a recent county board meeting, inter-county referee Brian Gavin, who is Clara's club chairman, proposed a debate on the state of hurling and football in the county.

That took place four weeks later and their coaching committee is conducting an ongoing review of standards and structures, but the precarious position of their hurlers will surely now be revisited at this month's board meeting.

[Bord na Mona man]

townman the media hound!
Reading between the lines, our greatest challenge is getting fresh blood and new faces involved.
It's very easy to get caught up in shoeing those people who are already trying to keep things moving.
If you think things are bad now, imagine if they all decided to down tools.

When I've spoken to games promotion officers in Dublin, they'll tell you that when they go around the clubs, very often the parents they meet to give guidance about the running of teams have no experience in gaelic games at all. Never played them growing up, never went to Croke Park, wouldn't be well up in the nuances of the games. Yet are now willing to help out and any sort of volunteer is seen as an asset.

As Ahlethimoutwithit has alluded to, is there an insular mindset at work in Offaly. Those who didn't excel in the sports, or those who don't hail from certain hurling or football strongholds are looked down on? Therefore feel discouraged from stepping up to the plate.

[Truesupporter]

I write in reply and dissapointment to the posts that have been written since Sunday. It is very easy to criticize the managers and the county board when hiding behind a pseudonym and some of it has been particularly bad.

I would like to address the following:

1. O Connor Park. I am a steward here, and it is due to my love of gaelic games, especially hurling. The facilities for players are second to none, with a brilliant pitch that is the same dimensions as Croke Park and dressing room facilities that are top notch. In fact other counties love playing here, and county officials are envious of what we have. It seems only South Offaly people don't like it. Any player should want to play on the best pitch and avail of great facilities. Tullamore is only 25 miles from Offalys major towns, so is central to all the people. We don't have far to travel compared to some other counties to our county grounds. And if the games are good enough quality there will be an atmosphere! I cannot understand how the players have not said how they enjoy the facilities in Tullamore, as the Birr row rumbles on. in fact offaly hurlers had to play all NHL matches away in 1979 and it was the making of them, so we shoiuld be able to get results anywhere.

2. County Players: I feel that not all our county players want success badly enough. Some are prepared to make the sacrifices but many are not The modern game demands supreme fitness, diet is important and alcohol consumption is a non runner. Our players are very well looked after, have free membership and want for nothing. yet they still want to socialize till the wee hours after games. Other counties have full squads who will do what is needed, we don't.

3. County Boards: it is very easy to criticize those who give up their time voluntary for the good of the county. If these people feel they can do a better job, why don't the put themselves forward at AGM time?

4. Pride: in our glorious 80's and 90's the county players had great pride in their jersies. No player owns their jersey, they are entrusted with it, and it is their duty to pass it on to the next generation in as good a condition as possible, meaning playing the game to the best they can. This is not happening now. With gear being given out on development squads, there is an attitude now of "whats in it for me", not what " what can i give for my county".

5. Volunteers: there are very few volunteers who get to sit down in O Connor Park on match days, and those that are are still working while sitting. If the whingers on this forum have something to offer, we are always looking for volunteers. The stewards are there long before and after a match making sure all goes well.

6. I feel anyone who heard B. Whelehans interview on Sunday evening know how dissapointed he was a a hurling man. the players didn't want it enough.... Any county would love to have real hurling men like him, John Troy and Ger Coughlan on board, but the players have to want it badly enough.,

[townman]

townman the media hound!
Reading between the lines, our greatest challenge is getting fresh blood and new faces involved.
It's very easy to get caught up in shoeing those people who are already trying to keep things moving.
If you think things are bad now, imagine if they all decided to down tools.

When I've spoken to games promotion officers in Dublin, they'll tell you that when they go around the clubs, very often the parents they meet to give guidance about the running of teams have no experience in gaelic games at all. Never played them growing up, never went to Croke Park, wouldn't be well up in the nuances of the games. Yet are now willing to help out and any sort of volunteer is seen as an asset.

As Ahlethimoutwithit has alluded to, is there an insular mindset at work in Offaly. Those who didn't excel in the sports, or those who don't hail from certain hurling or football strongholds are looked down on? Therefore feel discouraged from stepping up to the plate.

well at least some one is listen or looking at my post take a bow but its not funny men i was at every hurling match in tullamore walsh cup league and their is no one at them, and next year it will be worse didn't get to see the footballers but i'd say it is the same, we were once a proud county but we are at the bottom of the ladder now in every code, and our young lads growing up have nothing to look up to and this will harm us for years.

[townman]

lads, people have been pointing out things in offaly for a minimum of 10 years now, yet it hasnt changed. I m left 7 years now and the cracks were ther for all to see before then. I personally think ye need to get away from the old boys menatlity in the hurling - employ proper coaches/managers form wherever and go with them rather than looking at a list of medal winners. i text a laois panelist last night about their game and about our game v kerry and hopefully ye. He made the point that Camross won the laois title the year after Bw left yet ye took him on! the reverance to the past has to end.
As regards john leahy and his part in this. well i d defend this man to the end having solderied with him on squads. 8/9 years ago i was involved for a yr or 2. Ya couldnt get anyone involved! i went to an u14 trial on my own, had to pick 2 teams and ref a match. Only for a parent got involved on the night i was snookered. No one wanted in. So ye reap what ye sow. Then one club asked me not to play their players on a saturday in the tony forristal as they had a club match on monday! But heh look its no different down here now. We d 10 at an u15 training this wknd and mentors are thin on the ground. So it cant all be johns fault. Birr Cs are dropping down to B grade in all comps as far as i know. The north offaly team seems to be dying a death also - only 2 from the school in banagher committed to the panel as far as i m aware. So theres a need for joined up thinking up there rather than looking out for ones own area.
Laois and carlow are not in better shape than ye in my opinion as a hurling county. we re on a crest of a wave at the min but in 2/3 years we ll be easy talk too. I cant see ye decline that far. There is a need for huge time investment alright but it needs to be matched by what goes on in clubs. County squads only get lasd at 14 up. so if the hold the hurl wrong, cant strike off both sides etc, its v hard for a county squad to do the work they should if they have to correct this.

just your point on Sid over Camross did they not get to the county final the year he was there and the year he left they didn't win it either, Sid took the offaly job because no one else wanted it and he was brought in for the minor job and end up with the senior gig, that in a way shows you what county board we have, and i think Sid wouldn't want to have it said about him that he turn down the offaly job as his an offalyman to the back bone and gave us all in offaly many a great day as did others on the teams he played in, as a Birrman i never did or will see a better hurler than him in Birr or offaly and thats just my opinion but i'd say many inside and outside of offaly will say the same.

[KillougheyGoBragh]

Don't think anyone blames Brian Whelahan.
We all understand his predicament having to undertake a managerial role with minimal experience.
It's a poor chess player who sacrifices his best pieces too early and that is what is most shameful about his appointment.
If his appointment fails we will have lost our biggest asset and that will be unforgivable.
This cannot happen and its here and now that the County Board must help him.

[Plain of the Herbs]

That's fair enough on JL. He remains part of the solution, whatever that will be.

lAs regards john leahy and his part in this. well i d defend this man to the end having solderied with him on squads. 8/9 years ago i was involved for a yr or 2. Ya couldnt get anyone involved! i went to an u14 trial on my own, had to pick 2 teams and ref a match. Only for a parent got involved on the night i was snookered. No one wanted in. So ye reap what ye sow. Then one club asked me not to play their players on a saturday in the tony forristal as they had a club match on monday! But heh look its no different down here now.

[old yellar]

Point taken townman.
a fine hurler and without doubt one of the greatest i ve ever seen. Doesnt always transfer to management. I was at the offaly/mlr challenge game a few wks back and was on the side of the offaly panel/mentors. Not a voice to be heard for the 80 mins. Thought it strange. And this is not just a reference to brian but the whole management team. while i think its honourable to take a job, sometimes the bigger thing to do is decline. Its v hard as an interested outsider to see how danny owens wasnt a really strong contender. Hard to see the rationale behind it.