Offaly Senior Team Progress

[jimbob17]

Almost midway through March and with seven league games played between football (4) and hurling(3), our senior teams are rooted to the bottom of their respective divisions - 3 and 1B respectively.

At his recent instalment as chairman of Clara GAA, Brian Gavin proposed or sought an open discussion on the progress or lack thereof of Offaly Senior teams in both hurling and football at the next county board meeting. I am fairly sure that this wont be allowed to happen but if it were, what would the issues be?

Discuss...

[hawksforever]

Well he is right , no progress made in football , players now speaking out in a quite way how plssed off they are with the stupid tatics been used by management.
4 games played beaten easily and same game plan , why has he not changed , well I believe like the majority he has no clue on how to make progress and only for the win on Wednesday night with the u/21 team we should be calling for him to resign.
Sorry for been so blunt but the results speak for themselves and with players now beginning to question his team tactics maybe its time for the county board to sit down with him to discuss why we are rock bottom.

[Conrad]

At least the footballers have some sort of tactics. Something that they can stick by and aim produce with 100% effectiveness sometime in the future.
Our U21's have a grasp of it, bringing this to the next level what will matter in the heel of the hunt. Patience is key. Working these tactics from grassroots up.
On the other hand, what are the hurlers tactics at the minute? Hope for the best??
Bakers tactic to win the aerial battle with big men and hope for the best, half worked. And was the best we could come up with.
Offaly's hurlers have been using hopeless tactic's since ground hurling went out of date in '99.
And who gives a f*ck about grassroots, just leave them to grow "unguided".

[bracknaghboy]

First week of March gone and it feels like the year is over for us in both senior codes already. Times are hard for the hurlers when avoiding relegation from a division that contains both Antrim and Laois will be seen as a success by some

As for the big ball.........a solitary win of any description in league or championship this year might be all we can hope for.
Its becoming hard to keep the faith these days. I'd be fearful for the attendance at the next 2 home hurling matches and the home football game against Limerick.

[turfcutter]

i think we beat UCD in the o byrne cup by a point, that has been our only competitive win since our defeat to limerick in the league final. We are at an all time low, and its not going to get any better.

[Toxicity234]

Almost midway through March and with seven league games played between football (4) and hurling(3), our senior teams are rooted to the bottom of their respective divisions - 3 and 1B respectively.

At his recent instalment as chairman of Clara GAA, Brian Gavin proposed or sought an open discussion on the progress or lack thereof of Offaly Senior teams in both hurling and football at the next county board meeting. I am fairly sure that this wont be allowed to happen but if it were, what would the issues be?

Discuss...

Did the County Board open the Discussion?
Or they afraid they might have to discussion why they didn't interview the only person in the County that wanted the Hurling job??

[townman]

what ever about staying in division 1B in the hurling going back to division 4 in the football will put the final nail in the coffin for the football pity as the under 21's are doing well and the minors but will learn nothing in the division 4,. look at tipp minor football winners a few munster under 21's but been stuck in division 4 has stop them doing well at senior come championship i fear the same will happen to offaly.

[townman]

First week of March gone and it feels like the year is over for us in both senior codes already. Times are hard for the hurlers when avoiding relegation from a division that contains both Antrim and Laois will be seen as a success by some

As for the big ball.........a solitary win of any description in league or championship this year might be all we can hope for.
Its becoming hard to keep the faith these days. I'd be fearful for the attendance at the next 2 home hurling matches and the home football game against Limerick.

cork lost the all ireland and munster champs limerick also in it, as two wexford who drew with leinster winners Dublin, and winners Clare, last year, footballers back down with the kingpins of football longford,sligo,limerick, in there division

[the Untouchable]

While it's great that Brian wants to have a discussion about why we're so bad at senior level, it's ultimately a pointless debate to have....
We are at a minimum 5 years behind the top counties in regard to coaching & training methods. Compare the type of footballers Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Tyrone & Dublin & then look at the boys that we would have to put out against these men!! Same story with the hurlers...we've got a few decent size lads...but we play them because their our big men...but again compare what the likes of Kilkenny or Clare or any other county has in regards to the size & physical conditioning that their players have & you see a huge gulf in these counties preparations & our's!!
Now, I have long being an advocate for over hauling the club football championships because I think we have close on the worst standard of football at club level in any county...most senior matches you'd attend, you'd really struggle to pick out 2 county players from all the players on display, now maybe I was spoilt growing up going to watch senior club games on Offaly...but back then you had Edenderry, tullamore, Gracefield, Shannonbridge, Ferbane & Clara all playing great football & capable of winning a senior title, then in later years Doon, Rhode & shamrocks started to push these teams & we witnessed some absolutely classic matches...but look at the standard of football today & it makes you wonder what are these guys actually being coached.
If your club championship is garbage, it's very unlikely your county teams are going to be great. I think we need to be realistic, we are where we are for 2 key reasons:
1) the players just aren't in the county!! I know people always compare apples & oranges here...but look at it like this, how many of the current football panel would make the 97 Leinster winning side & how many of the current hurlers would have made the 95 all Ireland team!! None at all in my opinion.
2) the county board stopped looking for the right manager & instead choose the cheapest option or 1 of their pets got the managers job...we've had a catalogue of bad managers in both codes...men who had no club success never mind previous county experience. I'd say Padraig Nolan was the last top football manager we had...and Michael Bond was the last proper hurling manager we had...now I know neither were exactly house hold names when they came on board...but I think both helped to take Offaly to a new level which is what a manager should be aiming to do!! Our current management in both codes is a joke, Sid is there because of the player he was...but that means nothing to players now a days & emmett is way out of his league...like for us to be half way through the league & still not have players fit enough to play 70 mins of high intensity football just shows the gap between where management think is the level we need to be at...and the actual level we need to be at!!
I hope the discussions go well...I'm sure like so many of these things, they'll be no finger pointing or blame laid at anyone's door because the approach will be taken.."ah sure isn't everyone just doing their best"!!
I think in 12 months time we'll still be asking the same questions wondering why we're not competing with the top tier sides.
Slan

[Offaly1982]

I'm not from Rhode but its clear that the county boards inability to get Coffey or Darby to manage the Offaly Senior footballers is criminal.

Offaly football needs a manager that knows Offaly Senior Club Football. When Emmet was appointed the job - could he even name the starting 15 for the top 4 football clubs in Offaly? NOT a chance. Could the likes of Coffey or Darby? - you can bet your life on it. Not only that but these guys could tell you the strenghts and weeknesses of each of these playes. Who has the skill, who has the speed, age, attitude etc. They know this because they've watched them for years. They've either managed them or managed against them.

Emmet's success is built off success at schools football and a couple of other jobs not related to Offaly club football. The schools team that won the all Ireland just needed a manager to get the lads to train and play - the players were there, the pick from that school is massive - Edenderry borders Kildare and Meath - lots of players to pick from not just Edenderry, Ballyfore and the entire Rhode Parish lads.

Its not Emmets fault - its the guys that gave his the job. The county board should have been eyeing up Darby or Coffey instead of just pis*ing them off. If we had Darby or Coffey we would be competitive in Division 3 pushing for promotion and going in the right direction. So what next... Find a manager who has managed a top 4 Offaly Senior club team in the last 5 years or at least someone who has a similar knowledge of Offaly club football.

[Offaly1982]

I dont accept that Offaly club football is rubbish. The top 3 or 4 teams would give any club team in Leinster a game and have done for years. Richie Dalton stands out when playing for Edenderry, where is he? he was dropped by the manager. Niall stands out for Rhode - where is he? Either the manager plays him center forward or he's standing in full forward watching our backs and half forwards over carry the ball because the manager thinks thats a good idea.

The problem is the county board and their appointment of football managers - end of story.

[townman]

offaly club football is poor sorry to say offaly1982, besides Rhode doing well getting to a few leinster finals
we haven't won it since 1986 Ferbane was it, look at last year tullamore with Dooley won the county final, went out after in the first round, the same the years Edenderry, Clara(who sliped up the year they agree to call off the game again portlaoise} you need at least 3 clubs that could give leinster a shot if they were in leinster to have a good club championship thats not the case in offaly or hasn't been since the good Ferbane or Walsh Islands teams of the 70's 80's .

give McDonnell this year and grome Pascal Kellaghan for the job as he has a good cv so far and doing great work with the minors, also Monastervin,Athy who he is with this year also.

Tom Coffey came in was it 2012 but didn't want the job, when you see Shane Dooley who was not fit last year and carried a injuried win a county final on his own in which he did by his scoring in the final
went out again the louth winners and never rose a flag tells you how far we have gone back just not in club football but senior county to.

[Lone Shark]

By any stretch of the imagination, the team has regressed hugely from last year and that is a massive concern. I certainly don't believe in changing management at this time of year or anything, but I'd have no doubt that Emmet McDonnell is well aware that a continuation of this sort of form is a surefire way to guarantee that he won't be in the job beyond this summer.

I will say this - you can't move around O'Connor Park on football matchday without being told how hard these players are working. They'll say it themselves, people talk about all the early morning weights sessions and I certainly don't doubt that they're putting in the hours and the hardship. However at some point somebody has to actually ask what are they doing, and is it the right thing at all? Because in the last 25 minutes of that game, Longford cut through us for a shortcut. They had overlapping runners everywhere, and we were utterly unable to curtail them, or to respond in kind. Either Longford were fitter than us, fresher than us or far, far better than us - and I'm beginning to wonder if the type of training that's being done is completely wrong for the players.

Let's not beat around the bush here either - it's not good enough to say that the team is still doing hard training to peak later in the year. That excuse was a bit weak when the lads were being flogged the weak of the Cavan game in February, it simply won't do now. The best chance we had of staying up was to beat Longford and Limerick at home, then maybe if necessary pick up something on the final day of the season in Enniskillen. Of all people, I certainly would have no fear of Roscommon, but I've seen them a few times this year now and they are a very good side, a mid table division two team at worst. I'd be amazed if they don't beat us this weekend and if that happens, chances are the footballers will be in the same boat as the hurlers - knowing their fate with two games still to play.

Sunday's game was vital, and there was simply no need for lads to be out on their feet for the last 25 minutes, yet that was the case. I suspect that there were a few players on the field who were either hiding, or else unable to keep going, and that their lack of energy and willingness to keep going cost us dearly. I have names in my head, but in the absence of video footage to go back and confirm who they were, I'd be reluctant to say. I will say that Longford's half backs and midfielders appeared to be able to make ground with impunity, and while Eoin Carroll and Conor McNamee can be excused to a certain extent on account of their age and workload, that same excuse doesn't work all over. Certainly on a personal level, I don't like the idea of asking so much of the under-21s right now. As things stand, the upcoming Leinster under-21 semi-final is a huge game for the county, one that we badly need to boost the sport and one that is there for the taking with the right attitude. Playing guys in a game ten days before that is one thing, playing them in a tough encounter against a strong team that will likely run them ragged just three days before that game is inexcusable and I really hope it doesn't happen. Forty or forty five minutes of game time for the key men if needs be, but I'd hate to see lads like Cunningham and Carroll start and finish that game on Sunday.

For me, the saddest part about all this is the fact that in all this talk about how hard we're working and training, the areas where we are most deficient are in the areas where footballers are most likely to be "made" as opposed to born. I look at Westmeath playing in division one, and I'd find it hard to pick out players in the team who you'd call gifted, with the obvious exception of John Heslin and of course Dessie Dolan, who continues to be effective despite his age. Yet their team is packed full of guys like Paul Sharry, Kieran Martin, Ger Egan and others who have become extremely effective performers at a high level, despite the fact that they don't have any unique skills. They've worked hard on their game, they got good guidance (much of it from an Offaly man, Pat Flanagan) and as a result they have carried the team up to a level far beyond what their raw talent would suggest they should be capable of. In Niall McNamee and Peter Cunningham, we have two naturally gifted forwards, and Anton Sullivan isn't far behind them when fully fit, which admittedly doesn't seem to be the case at the moment - that's more than they do. Paul McConway and Brian Darby are two natural defenders that would be an asset to any team and would walk onto the Westmeath side and in goals, an increasingly important position, our man is probably second only to Cluxton in the whole country. Yet where we seem to fall down is in the middle third, where the really good sides pack their team with athletes that bring pace, stamina and physicality to the table and we get steamrollered. Sharry and Martin are the obvious Westmeath examples, yet even in Dublin you look at the way that players like Michael Darragh MacAuley and Paul Flynn would be an automatic selection on any All Ireland XV, yet neither of those two men would amaze you with their incredible skill. MacAuley won player of the year through nothing more than relentlessness - he just wears you down. That wasn't given to him by genetics or good luck, he earned that through sheer dint of well directed hard work - the key phrase being well directed.

If you start from a level of good competence, there is no reason why you can't work hard and get to their level. 99.9% of footballers can train all their lives and live monastically, yet they'd never be able to hold a candle to someone like Colm Cooper, since he's just an incredibly talented individual. But where's our Paul Flynn, our Kieran Martin, our Cathal Cregg, our Gary Sice, or any of these lads? Why are we "working so hard" yet getting nowhere? This has to be asked.



Just on another matter, I don't agree that Emmet being from outside Offaly is the issue. Aside from the players that were dropped over the bank holiday weekend fiasco last year, it's fair to say that by and large, the best players in the county have been asked to be part of the squad - I certainly couldn't think of too many others who would be potential first XV players who aren't being chosen.

[Offaly1982]

Townman: I'm not saying the club teams are good enough to win Leinster - the point is we have teams that can compete at that level. The Rhode team should have won a couple of Leinsters. The Clara team you mentioned had Portlaoise bet and could have won a Leinster. If that Clara team had of won more county titles I think they would have won a Leinster. There is only one reason (called Niall) that Clara havn’t won more Offaly championships. Before that the Edenderry team (1995-2001) should have won a leinster. In 2001 Rathnew beat Edenderry in the Leinster semi-final by a goal and went on to win Leinster - I still havn’t got over it But thats not the point - the point is we are not getting the best 15 on the pitch, they are not playing the right way and we are not moving forward. With the resources we have we should be at the same level as Cavan, at least – that is competitive in division 3 but we are not. I think the players we have are better than that. I think we have managers in the county who can set up the Offaly team better then the current management.

The Shark: The reason we need an Offaly manager with club experience is because we need a guy that knows the players.

Rather than going on and on complaining, here is a plan...

(1) Get a new Manager from Rhode, Clara, Tullamore or Edenderry (Probably not a popular one for those living outside of these areas but there you go

(2) New manager with your "man management" skills get the lads back from America.

(3) New manager with your "man management" skills get Richie, Pender and Brady back.

(4) Stop playing Guilfoyle, Hanlon, Anton and anybody else who over carries the ball anywhere near our half back line. I’m not saying drop these guys. Guilfoyle needs to be at full forward see (5). Anton, Hanlon and a few others have the football and need to be thought the effect a good 40 yard pass can have as opposed to run, hand-pass and support.

(5) Guilfoyle at 14, Niall at 15 and “AN other” at 13. Right, Guiller your job is to stand on the edge of the square and make runs from there to win the ball – Please note the ball will be kicked more often – see (4) above. Guiller the ball might not be kicked specifically to you but in any case the run must be made to make space as the ball might be kicked to Niall who lives at the edge of the square and only leaves it to collect a pass – See (6)

(6) “New manager” apologise to Niall for the previous managers insistence at leaving him out numbered on the full forward line or playing him at center forward and insisting on the outfield players to over-carry the ball. Niall play at the edge of the square. “AN other” your main job is to play as the other corner forward and not have 2 men marking Niall.

(7) Half forwards – you must play a little closer to midfield but not so close that your man markers choose not to mark you. You must live for breaking balls from the opposition kick outs. Your new manager will have you doing drills to show you what you need to do to win breaking ball or you can just watch Rhode’s half forward line.

(8) Defence your new manager will explain why we need to stop marking space and start marking men. Defence are numbers 1 to 6 all the time and 7 to 14 when we don’t have the ball. Numbers 7 to 14 by defending I mean marking your man not dropping back to our half for the sake of it. Niall when it comes to defence I want you to consider yourself like Ronaldo in his last year playing for Man utd. Don’t do it, you are there to score and win us games we shouldn’t be winning.

[Lone Shark]

The Shark: The reason we need an Offaly manager with club experience is because we need a guy that knows the players.

I'm sorry, but no. There are plenty of people in the county who go to 50+ club games a year and a whole host of county and underage games as well, but until you train with players and work with them, you don't get to know them that well. You need to give the right guys a chance to get onto the panel, and in fairness to this management team, one thing they can't be criticised for is their willingness to open the door to anyone, but once you have picked your panel as best you can, it's only then that you can really get to know your players and what they're capable of, or not.

As for your points...

(1) I'm guessing for that reason, Alan Mulhall should be dropped from goals? After all, only those four clubs have been successful, so it stands to reason that we should have a player from one of those clubs standing in the crucial spot where they can see everything......

You must see how daft this is. Of course it's very likely that the leading candidates will come from the successful clubs, but the idea that the door should be closed to everyone else is nonsense.

(2/3) And I'm guessing by man management skills, you mean grovelling, yeah? The three lads that were cut last year were cut for very good reason. What I've heard - and I'm open to correction on this - is that only one of the three has made any real and meaningful effort to show contrition and to suggest that things would be different this time around. Bringing lads back by the scruff of the neck when they haven't taken the first steps themselves is just inviting repeat behaviour. As for the States, other than Brian Connor, who are the "lads" you're talking about here? Secondly, why would he come back, and would he apply himself in the same way as some of the current players who are clearly motivated, if not successful so far.

(4) Overcarrying is a foul and a negative thing wherever it happens - but I'd be concerned that you'd be advocating a return to long foot passing when every successful team in Ireland uses far more run and handpass options than kick option. Even in the famous Dublin Kerry game last year, there were nearly three times as many handpasses as kick passes.

(5-8) All tactical stuff which is surely dependent on the players available, and above all, what the opposition gives you. I've studied a lot of games both live and on DVD over the past few years and the one theme that constantly comes though is this - if you're to be successful, your own management should dictate what you do without the ball and how you defend, but the opposition management should be dictating to you what you do with the ball.

What I mean by that is this - I can set a tactic for long diagonal balls into the corners all I like, but if the opposition sets up with two deep lying sweepers, it doesn't matter a jot if I've got Colm Cooper sending the ball into a full forward line of Jamie Clarke, Cillian O'Connor and Michael Murphy, I'm going to cough up the ball the vast majority of the time that I kick it long from the 65m line. On the other hand, I should have two spare men my own side of the ball, who should be working to support off the shoulder and carry the ball right into the danger zone, where they can win frees.

If the opposition sets up with a man-on-man formation and I can play the ball into Niall McNamee in a one on one battle, of course I play that ball - Niall will beat most defenders as if he doesn't have an advantage with pace, he almost certainly will in the air. However you could grow old and die waiting for that kind of chance in the modern game. This is what I mean by the opposition dictating what I should do. How they align themselves is crucial to the percentage chance of creating a shot on goal from each different approach - my team needs to be able to see that and react to that.

If the opposition hunts in packs starting from a deep base, then I need to be able to work twenty and thirty yard diagonal passes to open up more space in the field and stretch them out. If the opposition plays one sweeper in front of the full back line, then I can play long ball but I need to be sure to play it from the centre of the field and from slightly closer to the opposition goal, to ensure that it can be put out off his reach and that he isn't on hand to either win it first time or else gang up with the marker of my receiver and thus create a two man tackle situation the second the ball arrives.

If the opposition backs play from the front, I need to play it long in behind occasionally - if they start behind but come up like terriers, I need wing forwards running to take quick handpasses off the inside receiver to wrong foot them. Everything depends on what the opposition gives you.


My point is this - you need to be able to take what's on, and at times I feel like breaking into tears when I read of all these supposedly clever football people who can't understand that basic tenet, and who think that by reverting to old fashioned long ball into the full forward line, Offaly will rediscover success.



None of this is meant as an endorsement, or a criticism, of the Emmet McDonnell regime and approach by the way.