Offaly Senior Team Progress

[timber]

I agree with some of the views that the standard of club football has dropped. It has dropped alot. During the 2000's the standard was quiet good. Their was some very good teams and it was competitive. Rhode were an excellent side between 2005-2008 that were not far off a leinster title. They had set the bar and to be fair other teams stepped up. Tullamore, Shamrocks, Clara, were pressing them very hard and then the other teams were very competitive also. There was some cracking games played. There was an interest in club football and a bit of a buzz about the championship.

Now I look at the championship and I see Rhode way past its best and short of the hunger they had back then and they are still the pace setters. Tullamore and Clara are more than capable of taking them on their day but their standard has dropped similar to Rhode. There is little interest in the championship now. There are a number of teams that are easily intermediate standard playing senior now. The bar has dropped a long way from where Rhode had set it.

From what I have seen of the county team. Their fitness aerobically seems to be letting them down. Maybe too much gym work and not enough playing in the field.

[townman]

Townman: I'm not saying the club teams are good enough to win Leinster - the point is we have teams that can compete at that level. The Rhode team should have won a couple of Leinsters. The Clara team you mentioned had Portlaoise bet and could have won a Leinster. If that Clara team had of won more county titles I think they would have won a Leinster. There is only one reason (called Niall) that Clara havn’t won more Offaly championships. Before that the Edenderry team (1995-2001) should have won a leinster. In 2001 Rathnew beat Edenderry in the Leinster semi-final by a goal and went on to win Leinster - I still havn’t got over it But thats not the point - the point is we are not getting the best 15 on the pitch, they are not playing the right way and we are not moving forward. With the resources we have we should be at the same level as Cavan, at least – that is competitive in division 3 but we are not. I think the players we have are better than that. I think we have managers in the county who can set up the Offaly team better then the current management.

The Shark: The reason we need an Offaly manager with club experience is because we need a guy that knows the players.

Rather than going on and on complaining, here is a plan...

(1) Get a new Manager from Rhode, Clara, Tullamore or Edenderry (Probably not a popular one for those living outside of these areas but there you go

(2) New manager with your "man management" skills get the lads back from America.

(3) New manager with your "man management" skills get Richie, Pender and Brady back.

(4) Stop playing Guilfoyle, Hanlon, Anton and anybody else who over carries the ball anywhere near our half back line. I’m not saying drop these guys. Guilfoyle needs to be at full forward see (5). Anton, Hanlon and a few others have the football and need to be thought the effect a good 40 yard pass can have as opposed to run, hand-pass and support.

(5) Guilfoyle at 14, Niall at 15 and “AN other” at 13. Right, Guiller your job is to stand on the edge of the square and make runs from there to win the ball – Please note the ball will be kicked more often – see (4) above. Guiller the ball might not be kicked specifically to you but in any case the run must be made to make space as the ball might be kicked to Niall who lives at the edge of the square and only leaves it to collect a pass – See (6)

(6) “New manager” apologise to Niall for the previous managers insistence at leaving him out numbered on the full forward line or playing him at center forward and insisting on the outfield players to over-carry the ball. Niall play at the edge of the square. “AN other” your main job is to play as the other corner forward and not have 2 men marking Niall.

(7) Half forwards – you must play a little closer to midfield but not so close that your man markers choose not to mark you. You must live for breaking balls from the opposition kick outs. Your new manager will have you doing drills to show you what you need to do to win breaking ball or you can just watch Rhode’s half forward line.

(8) Defence your new manager will explain why we need to stop marking space and start marking men. Defence are numbers 1 to 6 all the time and 7 to 14 when we don’t have the ball. Numbers 7 to 14 by defending I mean marking your man not dropping back to our half for the sake of it. Niall when it comes to defence I want you to consider yourself like Ronaldo in his last year playing for Man utd. Don’t do it, you are there to score and win us games we shouldn’t be winning.

you think getting Sean Pender, Ross Brady, and Richie Dalton back is the way forward
we have a good under 21 team plus a nice few good minors on the way up its them we should be looking after not a few who were there and failed before move on don't look back.

[Offaly1982]

you think getting Sean Pender, Ross Brady, and Richie Dalton back is the way forward
we have a good under 21 team plus a nice few good minors on the way up its them we should be looking after not a few who were there and failed before move on don't look back.

The way forward is to first and foremost get back to basics.
Get the best players in the county available, train properly and play properly. Current manager is not doing any of these things. He is trying to build a team of Tullow tanks.

Of course we should bring on the young lads - that goes without saying for most people.
But the point is this. If we keep going the way we are going in 5 or 6 years the new crop will have "failed" as you put it above and you will be on here (with your picture of the great Birr hurling team) smugly saying how "rubbish" the footballers are in the county - again I'm quoting you from one of your earlier posts where you describe the club football teams in the county as "rubbish".

I'll say it one last time. The current set up of the Offaly Senior football team is not an accurate representation of how good the players actually are. The current management approach and tactics are not an accurate representation of the quality of senior football managers in this county.

I'll be at the match this weekend cheering on the lads hoping things will have improved. Good luck lads

[Square Cab]

I'm not here to pick holes in your argument Offaly1982 but who exactly are you talking about when you say "get the best players in the county available"? Lets be honest, the pool of players he has to pick from is shallow (the quality of the senior semi finals is testament to that) and to be fair to McDonald he is using the best of what's available.

[Offaly1982]

I'm not here to pick holes in your argument Offaly1982 but who exactly are you talking about when you say "get the best players in the county available"? Lets be honest, the pool of players he has to pick from is shallow (the quality of the senior semi finals is testament to that) and to be fair to McDonald he is using the best of what's available.

I could name 5 or 6 guys who are fairly well known to most readers
I wont though cos people will only start having a pop at them on this

Although, you know who could give a great answer to that question... Pat Daly, Tony Dalton, Peter Brady or Paul Rouse.
And to stop Loane shark getting narky again include Phil Reilly there aswell

[azoffaly]

I read a good quote today from a Munster rugby coach who was talking about the Munster A game v Connacht. (bear with me). He said that he was very disappointed with Munster early on in their application of the 'non talent components' of the game. It stuck with me, and it's a catchy phrase for something that we should be able to take for granted, but are we really doing it? It takes no natural talent to run with your man if he's on an overlap. It takes no natural talent to contest every ball physically. It takes no talent to put in 100% effort all the time.

If we have talent deficiencies, then skills training, hard work etc may help, but it's forgivable.

If we have deficiencies in the 'non talent components' of the game, then I find that very hard to forgive. I've seen it myself in a few club teams and the like as well. Fellas *think* they are trying, but they are not really giving 100%. If you are out on your feet, and cannot chase a free man running, then fair enough the manager should take you off. If however you switch off, or half follow him and leave him for someone else to pick up, then that's you neglecting your responsibility, and too many players are not being pulled up on that.

I believe we have football in Offaly. But whether it's a confidence issue, an attitude issue, a complacency issue or whatever, I don't think we are good at the hard work parts of the game. I should say I haven't seen Offaly play at all this year, these are my thoughts from previous recent years, but from all accounts it seems to be still an issue.

[Offaly1982]

... but I'd be concerned that you'd be advocating a return to long foot passing when every successful team in Ireland uses far more run and handpass options than kick option...

Hey, I said more 40 yard kick passes. Thats hardly "long foot passing". I'm talking bout the sort of passes Scott Brady, Alan Mcnamee, Matt Mitchell, Richie Dalton, M. Brazil etc. etc. use when playing for their clubs. Of course we will hand pass too but.... I could go on but I'm tired now.

[Lone Shark]

... but I'd be concerned that you'd be advocating a return to long foot passing when every successful team in Ireland uses far more run and handpass options than kick option...

Hey, I said more 40 yard kick passes. Thats hardly "long foot passing". I'm talking bout the sort of passes Scott Brady, Alan Mcnamee, Matt Mitchell, Richie Dalton, M. Brazil etc. etc. use when playing for their clubs. Of course we will hand pass too but.... I could go on but I'm tired now.

If a forty yard pass isn't a long pass, then what is - 50, 60? Most players can't kick it any further than that.

Players use those passes in Offaly club football, because in Offaly club football, they're the right passes to play. I haven't seen any club in Offaly play a stacked defence and do it well, which is why it's often the right option. As I said above, if I'm playing in midfield and I look up and Niall McNamee is one on one with his marker, of course I'm going to give that ball every time, it'll be the right percentage play. If I look up and I see three inside forwards being marked by three corner backs, with no sweepers, then the long ball is the right one to give for the same reason - and in Offaly club football, you'll get that look all the time. Our club championship is riddled with coaches who still talk about "15 individual battles" and stuff like that, when the modern game is nothing like that.

The point is that in county football, you might only get that scenario four or five times in a game for the whole team, at least unless one team is chasing a deficit. Consequently when it comes to the value of the respective skill sets, long foot passing is a long way down the list for a player in the middle third of the field. The ability to carry the ball, to track runners, to win breaks and to hold players up in the tackle is far more important, since those skills get used far more often. They just don't look as attractive to supporters in the stand.

There isn't one member of the Dublin half back line or midfield that I would trust to accurately pick out a corner forward's run from fifty yards away - yet they're a serious unit who have won All Ireland medals. Go figure.

[Offaly1982]

... but I'd be concerned that you'd be advocating a return to long foot passing when every successful team in Ireland uses far more run and handpass options than kick option...

Hey, I said more 40 yard kick passes. Thats hardly "long foot passing". I'm talking bout the sort of passes Scott Brady, Alan Mcnamee, Matt Mitchell, Richie Dalton, M. Brazil etc. etc. use when playing for their clubs. Of course we will hand pass too but.... I could go on but I'm tired now.

If a forty yard pass isn't a long pass, then what is - 50, 60? Most players can't kick it any further than that.

Players use those passes in Offaly club football, because in Offaly club football, they're the right passes to play. I haven't seen any club in Offaly play a stacked defence and do it well, which is why it's often the right option. As I said above, if I'm playing in midfield and I look up and Niall McNamee is one on one with his marker, of course I'm going to give that ball every time, it'll be the right percentage play. If I look up and I see three inside forwards being marked by three corner backs, with no sweepers, then the long ball is the right one to give for the same reason - and in Offaly club football, you'll get that look all the time. Our club championship is riddled with coaches who still talk about "15 individual battles" and stuff like that, when the modern game is nothing like that.

The point is that in county football, you might only get that scenario four or five times in a game for the whole team, at least unless one team is chasing a deficit. Consequently when it comes to the value of the respective skill sets, long foot passing is a long way down the list for a player in the middle third of the field. The ability to carry the ball, to track runners, to win breaks and to hold players up in the tackle is far more important, since those skills get used far more often. They just don't look as attractive to supporters in the stand.

There isn't one member of the Dublin half back line or midfield that I would trust to accurately pick out a corner forward's run from fifty yards away - yet they're a serious unit who have won All Ireland medals. Go figure.

Interesting points. Tell ya what - I'm going to the match on Sunday, if I see lads hand passing and running into trouble when "longish" kick passes are on, I'll be back in here Tuesday morning giving out again. And thats presuming we have some sort of a full forward line strategy

[townman]

you think getting Sean Pender, Ross Brady, and Richie Dalton back is the way forward
we have a good under 21 team plus a nice few good minors on the way up its them we should be looking after not a few who were there and failed before move on don't look back.

The way forward is to first and foremost get back to basics.
Get the best players in the county available, train properly and play properly. Current manager is not doing any of these things. He is trying to build a team of Tullow tanks.

Of course we should bring on the young lads - that goes without saying for most people.
But the point is this. If we keep going the way we are going in 5 or 6 years the new crop will have "failed" as you put it above and you will be on here (with your picture of the great Birr hurling team) smugly saying how "rubbish" the footballers are in the county - again I'm quoting you from one of your earlier posts where you describe the club football teams in the county as "rubbish".

I'll say it one last time. The current set up of the Offaly Senior football team is not an accurate representation of how good the players actually are. The current management approach and tactics are not an accurate representation of the quality of senior football managers in this county.

I'll be at the match this weekend cheering on the lads hoping things will have improved. Good luck lads

number 1 i never said they were rubbish i said offaly club football was poor your the one saying we have a few clubs that could get the leinster club a rattle i just don't see the teams there to do it.
yes i am a Birrman also an offalyman too , your the one talking up Edenderry with Pender and Dalton
should be their why aren't they. plus i don't think Richie Dalton is a better midfielder than Smith or Carroll or Brian Connor if he is home from the states come the summer.

[townman]

... but I'd be concerned that you'd be advocating a return to long foot passing when every successful team in Ireland uses far more run and handpass options than kick option...

Hey, I said more 40 yard kick passes. Thats hardly "long foot passing". I'm talking bout the sort of passes Scott Brady, Alan Mcnamee, Matt Mitchell, Richie Dalton, M. Brazil etc. etc. use when playing for their clubs. Of course we will hand pass too but.... I could go on but I'm tired now.

Scott Brady Alan MC, Richie Dalton foot passes are you for real,

[azoffaly]

... but I'd be concerned that you'd be advocating a return to long foot passing when every successful team in Ireland uses far more run and handpass options than kick option...

Hey, I said more 40 yard kick passes. Thats hardly "long foot passing". I'm talking bout the sort of passes Scott Brady, Alan Mcnamee, Matt Mitchell, Richie Dalton, M. Brazil etc. etc. use when playing for their clubs. Of course we will hand pass too but.... I could go on but I'm tired now.

The point is that in county football, you might only get that scenario four or five times in a game for the whole team, at least unless one team is chasing a deficit. Consequently when it comes to the value of the respective skill sets, long foot passing is a long way down the list for a player in the middle third of the field. The ability to carry the ball, to track runners, to win breaks and to hold players up in the tackle is far more important, since those skills get used far more often. They just don't look as attractive to supporters in the stand.

There isn't one member of the Dublin half back line or midfield that I would trust to accurately pick out a corner forward's run from fifty yards away - yet they're a serious unit who have won All Ireland medals. Go figure.

I can't agree with this LS. The key is when is it right to do it. But to say that the likes of Dublin and co rarely use a footpass isn't accurate in my view. Brogan, mannion and co regularly get footpasses played in in front of them. Other teams at the top end also use it. Just because it isn't done all the time, or isn't bombed in from 60 yards out doesn't mean there's no footpasses being played. To my mind the 30 yard pass, especially the diagonal has a place in the game still.

[Offaly1982]

number 1 i never said they were rubbish i said offaly club football was poor your the one saying we have a few clubs that could get the leinster club a rattle i just don't see the teams there to do it.
yes i am a Birrman also an offalyman too , your the one talking up Edenderry with Pender and Dalton
should be their why aren't they. plus i don't think Richie Dalton is a better midfielder than Smith or Carroll or Brian Connor if he is home from the states come the summer.

Oh right you didnt say they were rubbish, you said they were poor. I suppose thats all grand so.

When did I big up Edenderry? I said one of the recent RHODE managers should of got the Offaly job as opposed to the EDENDERRY school football manager! I said the recent Rhode and Clara teams were unlucky not to have won a Leinster - I only mentioned the Edenderry team of the late 90s in Leinster terms - thats hardly "bigging" up Edenderry. When I mentioned guys who gave good kick passes I named 5 players and only 1 was from Edenderry - again hardly "bigging" up Edenderry!!!

And I never "bigged up" Richie or Pender either - I said we should get a new manager and get the few lads back in the squad. I never said Richie was better than Smith or Caroll and I'm not going to give my opinion on that either even though I'm tempted. I'm pointing out way more fundamental issues with the management.

And finally you dont think Scott, Richie or Alan give good kick passes for their clubs - enough said.

[townman]

i might not see as much football club or county as you, but the games i did see i wouldn't put Alan Mac
down as a good foot passer, or Scott Brady but look thats just my opinion.

[Lone Shark]

Interesting points. Tell ya what - I'm going to the match on Sunday, if I see lads hand passing and running into trouble when "longish" kick passes are on, I'll be back in here Tuesday morning giving out again. And thats presuming we have some sort of a full forward line strategy

In fairness, if I saw lads running into trouble when long balls were on, I'd be giving out too. The point is that I haven't seen that - I've seen a lot of lads running into trouble when the long ball is not on, and neither is there good enough short support play, so they've no options and end up turning the ball over in the tackle. Instances of 'space in the full forward line and a refusal to kick it there from the 65m line onwards is not something I've seen this year.

I can't agree with this LS. The key is when is it right to do it. But to say that the likes of Dublin and co rarely use a footpass isn't accurate in my view. Brogan, mannion and co regularly get footpasses played in in front of them. Other teams at the top end also use it. Just because it isn't done all the time, or isn't bombed in from 60 yards out doesn't mean there's no footpasses being played. To my mind the 30 yard pass, especially the diagonal has a place in the game still.

I can't find the source now, but I think I saw last year that Dublin used something like 70% handpassing and 30% foot passing and absolutely, they like to use the "intermediate range" foot passing a lot, as opposed to the long ball. However the key to that is that they keep control of possession up to around 55m out from the opposition goal, meaning that when their foot pass is struck, it's a 25-30m delivery, which takes roughly two seconds to arrive. That way the various sweepers are taken out of the game, because they don't have the time to move to the right sector, unlike when the ball is sent from 50m out, takes 3.5 or 4 seconds to arrive and thus allows the sweeper to get close to the action and join in closing down the attacker.

Because they work it in that bit closer, approximately 40 yards closer than when the first cries of "Ara would ya give it LONG" come out of the stand, it's not as important that the passer is incredibly accurate, and it takes more energy to get that far in a timely fashion. That subtle but crucial aspect is often missed, particularly by those who think that long ball football is the answer to everything.

I agree it has a place in the game, and that teams still do it - and I certainly agree that they do it when it's right to do so. However I do think that the gaelic football equivalent of "establishing the run" before going long holds true, and that in Offaly, there is a tendency to want to go long as a matter of policy, as opposed to going long when you have a free man or a high percentage match up in the target zone. Seamus McEnaney was on RTE Radio last weekend talking about Meath football, and how they are still in the dark ages of playing as if it was the year 2000, and how every club in Meath played the same way, and how it was easy to defend, all the more because teams knew it was coming. A lot of the same argument applies to Offaly football, from what I can tell.