2014 WALSH Cup

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Toxicity234
All Star
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:26 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Toxicity234 »

A couple of point about Lone Shark post.

(1). You said in an early post that Birr would need "Second statue" do you know the what need to be done to get this?

(2). They may be one or two but honestly no Championship game is going to be played outside Tullamore. OCP is a great Facility and any Big championship should be there. the debate about SBP is not about where All Offaly Hurling should be in SBP, The question is should any hurling be in SBP. So the Question become If SBP can hold or should hold big game and by big games we mean knockout Club games and League games?? That is what most senior players and hurling clubs want to play.

So this is 2 Questions.
Should Birr have any Major Games????
And should the county board ignore the senior players and hurling clubs request to play some game in Birr?

(3). There is no Onus on Birr to Prove that an extra 1000 people would turn up to a game. I can't understand why this has being involved in this debate by the pro-OCP or The pro-SBP. The point is that for as long as hurling has being played in Offaly it basic in the stronghold of Birr.
More to the point is that People around Birr up until 10 years ago when to Birr to watch Offaly Play. Where did the idea that Birr would have to have Bigger crowds to get game come from???

(6) you both have dismiss tradition as a valid reason for playing in SBP. LS Dismiss SBP as a bit noisier on account of the lower roof. So What wrong with tradition and what make OCP in Tullamore a better for a few league game and walsh cup games than Birr. apart from the pitch being a little longer?? Last year i ended up in Blackwater in Wexford for a Walsh Cup game.

(7). I was in Carlow on 18 march last year and went to Blackwater, Belfast and parnell park. If a fan want to get to a game they get to a game.



Lone Shark from your reply your under the impression that Birr are look for all Offaly hurling matches to be played in birr. They not. They looking for league game to be played in birr.
At the moment South Offaly has being Cut out of the Inter county and Knock Club fixtures.

The Question is Why should Tullamore get every game at the expense of the other town, pitch and clubs???

If Kinnitty got a league game i have no problem with that.
But Birr would still be the traditional home of Offaly Hurling.

If my home club drumcullen got a league match i have not problem with that.
But Birr would still be the traditional home of Offaly Hurling.

If edenderry got a league game i have not problem with that.
But Birr would still be the traditional home of Offaly Hurling.

So why not play a few game in the traditional home of Offaly Hurling?????
“Common sense is not so common.”

SearingDrive
All Star
Posts: 1196
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by SearingDrive »

I haven't heard any convincing arguement why games should revert to Birr, apart from some nonsense about 'tradition', and terms like 'South Offaly/North Offaly'.
The reasons for Tullamore being suitable for intercounty games have been mentioned ad infibitum on the site. Someone mentioned that Tullamore is football heartland, tell that to the hurling supporters in Tullamore, Ballinamere, Killeigh, and Rahan, who have been playing the small ball game for generations.
The bigger issue is ensuring Offaly hurlers become contenders again, not tedious debate from Townman, and other luddites, about keeping hurling in Birr.
I actually like travelling to SHC games in Birr, it's a pleasant town, and it's nice to see the games in SBP.



townman wrote:No searingdrive there is no one here who has came up with a reason why hurling games should not
be played in Birr, lets call an Ace a Ace they only reason the games are in tullamore is they are up to their tits in money problems to pay for it.

User avatar
Lone Shark
All Star
Posts: 5377
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:21 pm
Club: Ferbane
Location: Roscommon
Contact:

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Lone Shark »

Toxicity:

(1) Genuinely, no. I was in contact with the Birr chairman around a year ago and they said that they were looking for it, but that there were ongoing small changes that were required. He didn't go into detail, because at the time, it was the playing surface that was at issue. I'd say that someone on the County Board Executive might be able to tell you more.

(2) We're all on the same page in that championship games are guaranteed to be OCP, as are county finals. The only ones arguing otherwise are the numerically challenged who don't seem to think that fitting 7000 people or more into a 5800 capacity stadium is an issue. The games that are being debated are as you say the home league games, and the SHC semi-finals. Almost everyone, myself included, would agree that Walsh Cup games, county minor and U21 games, IHC finals, SHC quarters and everything else should be shared around the county, depending on the circumstances of the tie. Note here however that county minor and U21 Leinster championship games are Leinster council fixtures, and so Offaly have no say. Perhaps that shouldn't be the case, but it is.

On your point:
And should the county board ignore the senior players and hurling clubs request to play some game in Birr?
I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with this, the county board is the final arbiter and their only remit is to obey the wishes of the body of GAA clubs in Offaly AS A WHOLE. When it comes to issues of games administration in Offaly, all clubs are equal. That's how the GAA is, and personally, that's how it should be. All Offaly clubs have the wellbeing of Offaly teams, hurling and football, at heart - and so they should all get an equal say. If certain clubs want to make a case for the games to be moved to Birr, they can introduce a legitimate, well thought out and comprehensive motion - not some half-arsed effort as was done last week. They can then canvass support and if they have a good argument on their side, they will win.

I don't believe that the players should be considered over and above the clubs, no. That said, I'm not sure where they've gone on the record as saying that they want games in Birr, I don't recall this at all. If someone comes out and makes it clear that they do, then of course club delegates should consider that - but not act on it for the sake of it. That's how a democracy works - the senior starter for the county team is supposed to have no more and no less of a say than the Junior B hurler from Gracefield or Clareen.

(3) So because it was done that way up to ten years ago, it should be done into perpetuity? Up to ten years ago, both Birr and Tullamore were quite decrepit, frankly. Both grounds have revamped - now one is a very fine club venue, the other is considered the best facility in Ireland outside of Croke Park for games up to 20,000 people by many. We're not comparing like with like any more. Also I can't help but notice that yet again you're leaning on words like "stronghold" here, words that mean nothing at all. Argue on facts, not watery nonsense like that.

And yes, if Birr is going to charge a rent for the stadium, then of course there is an onus on them to prove that the county board won't be at a loss for moving the games. That's just good sense. As I've said before, if Birr come out and say that they will make no charge to the county board for the use of the ground, then by all means the onus on them to prove that more supporters will attend is removed - but not until then.

(6) Absolutely I dismiss tradition. The very concept is nothing more than a pishróg, up there with Feng Shui, Voodoo, and not walking under ladders. The fact that people still talk about it in the context of an important and contemporary issue affecting Offaly hurling almost brings me to tears with frustration.

Let me be clear here - there are hundreds of traditions out there, but what makes them good or bad is the practice at the heart of it. Tradition dictates that we go to funerals and wakes when friends, family and acquaintances pass on. It's a good tradition because it's a sign of respect for the deceased and support for the family left behind. Tradition also dictates that thousands of people dress in orange on July 12th and march into areas they aren't wanted up north, just out of triumphalism and malice. That's one that we'd all be better off losing.

If something's worth doing, it's worth doing for a reason, not just because it was always done that way. Can we please throw the "tradition" argument into the bin for good?

(7) Yup. Agreed. Which makes a mockery of all these people saying that they would watch Offaly in SBP, but won't in OCP. If they really wanted to and really cared, the venue wouldn't be a barrier.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Ahlethimoutwithit
All Star
Posts: 764
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Ahlethimoutwithit »

The arguments/reasons for Tullamore are well documented here and I aint going to go there.

But,
I think there is something in the suggestion that some league games are played in Birr, (if it can pass all regulations and be designated as a county ground, or whatever the stipulations that are needed), if only for the novelty factor for punters from North Offaly who regularly used to make the journey over to Birr for games in the past. Albeit at a time when hurling was at its peak. So yes, there is a large degree of nostalgia involved and yearning for the days when humdingers of mammoth proportions were served up.

If we have 4 home league games, what is the harm of trying 2 in Birr? Yes, Birr should make a gesture and ensure that the CB is not charged for this, and CB should put their people on the gate to cover that angle. CB should cover basic expenses that may be incurred by the Birr club.

I am based in North Offaly and go to as many home games as I can, but, if Offaly played some games in Birr, I can guarantee I would have a car load down to Birr, and would probably take in the 2 games in Tullamore also. Call it nostalgia, call it what you like. But you cant dismiss it.
The benefit to local business around Birr on match days could be a boost, and look, it might give the players a bit of incentive too.

Our hurlers did not look too familiar with the home environment of Tullamore last Summer v Waterford, and basically that is down to atitude and preparation.
Its not the most insane suggestion ever put forward, maybe it is worth a try.

ryot
All Star
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:35 pm
Club: Doon

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by ryot »

Has SBP passed H & S and been approved by Leinster & Central as a "County Ground"

If it has this discussion has a basis and I played there and have great memories of those FOOTBALL games.

If it has not should the discussion not be on what is needed to bring it up to the required standards and how any costs involved can be met.

Walk first then run ..............

User avatar
Slieve Bloom Man
County player
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:47 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Slieve Bloom Man »

Hope to catch the Dublin - Kilkenny Walsh Cup Final tomorrow in Croke Park before Dublin - Kerry. Interesting to look at roll of honor on Hill 16 website.
Dublin have made six changes to their team that beat Wexford for Saturday’s Bord na Móna Walsh Cup final against Kilkenny in Croke Park (5.0).
Alan Nolan replaces Gary Maguire in goals with Cian O'Callaghan, Stephen Hiney, Johnny McCaffrey, Colm Cronin and David O’Callaghan all being handed starting berth with Simon Timlin, Matthew McCaffrey, Martin Quilty, Robbie Mahon and Eamon Dillon missing out.

Dublin will be hoping to retain the Walsh Cup they captured last year and claim the early season competition for the seventh time.

Kilkenny lead the roll of honour with 18 titles – their last coming as recent as 2012.

Dublin's senior footballers will announce their team to face Kerry in their NFL Division 1 opener in Croke Park (7.0) after training on Friday night.

Tickets for the double-header will be on sale on Saturday -ticket office open from 10am. Vans in Ballybough from 4pm. Buy on the day price is €15. The ticket office on Dorset St is open until 5pm on Friday.

DUBLIN (SH v Kilkenny)

1 Alan Nolan St Brigid’s

2 Cian O'Callaghan Cuala

3 Peter Kelly Lucan Sarsfields

4 Jack Dougan Kilmacud Crokes

5 Stephen Hiney Ballyboden St Enda’s

6 Conor McCormack Ballyboden St Enda’s

7 Joseph Boland Na Fianna

8 Shane Durkin Ballyboden St Enda’s

9 John McCaffrey (Capt) Lucan Sarsfields

10 Conal Keaney Ballyboden St Enda's

11 Ryan Dwyer Kilmacud Crokes

12 Colm Cronin Cuala

13 Paul Ryan Ballyboden St Enda’s

14 David O’Callaghan St Mark’s

15 Mark Schutte Cuala



WALSH CUP (SH) ROLL OF HONOUR




KILKENNY (18)

1955, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1970, 1973, 1974, 1988, 1989, 1992, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012.

WEXFORD (15)

1954, 1956, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1987, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002

DUBLIN (6)

1960, 1964, 1966, 2003, 2011, 2013

OFFALY (5)

1977, 1981, 1990, 1993, 1994

LAOIS (2)

1980, 1991

WESTMEATH (1)

1982

U.C.D. (1)

2004

ANTRIM (1)

2008

GALWAY (1)

2010

No Competitions: 1971, 1972, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1983-1986.

babsandbond
Senior
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:16 pm
Club: carrig

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by babsandbond »

just a few points on the whole birr topic..

firstly.. i thought our chairman came across as a complete clown on the radio last week...these cowboys get these jobs from lingering around for donkeys years so i think anything he said on that matter is rubbish as clearly he is swaying to ocp n matter what is done...

secondly... leinster council send a health and safety officer a year and half ago and told birr what to do with the field etc etc to make it to the standard that makes it a "county ground" and with the connection of boland and all these lads with the leinster council i think there was never a chance for birr in passing.i now believe birr will be getting there own private health and safety officer too get a second opinion which should have an interesting outcome

thirdly...every county has a football area and a hurling area..birr been the hurling area so dont give me this crap about promoting hurling in north offaly if we can grab a couple hurlers from there every year great but at the end of the day the south of offaly you will be getting more hurlers...so why not promote hurling down here.were slipping fastly and its only in 5 years time when we realise how bad we are.d kenny bergin watkins etc etc got to two under 21 finals in a row and had strong minor teams...do you tink the connollys and clearys of this world were winning at underage..as bad as we are now when the spinte of that team goes we will be competing with carlow and westmeaths of this world harsh but very true.

Plain of the Herbs
All Star
Posts: 3494
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:47 pm
Club: Lusmagh

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

I have finally got to read the media report on last Tuesday week's Board meeting. I see the Birr chairman had armed himself with County Final receipts from recent years. He pointed to the serious drop in income between the 2009 and 2013 finals, conveniently ignoring the fact that the 2013 Final was shown live on National TV, and the 2009 Final was an all-time record owing to the Final pairing. I thought that was lazy and disingenuous. Shure I could be similarly disingenuous compare the receipts between the 2006 drawn Final (the most recent final played in Birr) and any decider played in OCP, but didn't.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Toxicity234
All Star
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:26 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Toxicity234 »

Birr haven't handly this well at all.

To me the issue here is why should Tullamore get every game of any importance in Offaly.
Walsh, O' Byrne, Clubs Quarter, Semi and Finals all being play in Tullamore. along with County Championship and league games and U21 and minor Championship games.
I want to see a few Walsh, O'byrne and important club game outside Tullamore.
Offaly Gaa is more than Tullamore and Offaly Gaa is more than Birr.
but in Hurling terms Birr and Banager are more Hurling towns. Clara and Edenderry are more football towns. i don't think anyone going to argue with that.
So why don't a few of these game be spread around and it would also mean that clubs that invest in the facility could have a chance of have important games.

As for Birr not being a good facility. Its better than the county ground in the following lenister county. Louth, Kildare. wicklow. wexford. longford and meath. (its being 6 or 7 years since i being in Navan and Augrim). So i don't real accept that it can get the second county ground statue and for Club games it doesn't need second ground statue.
“Common sense is not so common.”

kinnittyman
All Star
Posts: 416
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:41 am

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by kinnittyman »

Birr is definitely inferior to Wexford Park and Pearse Park in Longford. The other grounds I would agree that Birr is superior to them.

User avatar
joe bloggs
All Star
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:07 pm
Location: canal side

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by joe bloggs »

kinnittyman wrote:Birr is definitely inferior to Wexford Park and Pearse Park in Longford. The other grounds I would agree that Birr is superior to them.
I agree, but he is right to point out that places like Aughrim can hold championship matches, while we are told Birr is not suitable for secondary county ground status. It is a stitch up by the cb who are using the Leinster council to do their dirty work. If you want to stop anything from happening in Ireland, there are 3 little magic words that never fail.…Health and Safety.

Birr are now between a rock and a hard place. Continue upgrading the stadium (is town end terrace), in the hope of getting more games, or cut their losses now.
'if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem' J. McClean

Toxicity234
All Star
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:26 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Toxicity234 »

kinnittyman wrote:Birr is definitely inferior to Wexford Park and Pearse Park in Longford. The other grounds I would agree that Birr is superior to them.
I was in Wexford Park two year ago and it was in need of major work. No water in the toilets and the first seat I sat on disappear from under me.
And that a county ground. I was talking to my brother in law from Gorey. How told me that is was in need of major work for about 5 years.

Longford I was there two or three years ago. and the pitch was shocking. it was a football match I was at. a friend was playing and after the match I went out on to the pitch and was shocking at the state of it. you couldn't bounce a ball it was that uneven. I was talking to a few of the players after and they were saying it was a good facility but the pitch was a tough pitch to play on. The manger told the team at half time to try to make sure the ball didn't hit the ground. now the match was play in mid October so maybe i'm be too hard on it.
“Common sense is not so common.”

Killeighman
All Star
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Killeighman »

There is no problem with a lot of the grounds around Offaly. Like from my point of view Killeigh has dressing rooms, a pitch which is in great condition all year round and now an all weather pitch for warming up, the one problem there is no stand or there is not a great area for parking. I wouldn't mind not having the stand so much as there is a lot of area around the pitch if supporters wouldn't mind getting wet watching the game. Offaly played challenge matches down there many a time and also trained down there over the years as well. There are plenty more grounds around the county which are the very same as Killeigh. By games being played in these pitches it may encourage youngsters to play as they see there county heroes playing at their own clubs ground.

kingscounty
All Star
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:42 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by kingscounty »

Killeighman wrote:There is no problem with a lot of the grounds around Offaly. Like from my point of view Killeigh has dressing rooms, a pitch which is in great condition all year round and now an all weather pitch for warming up, the one problem there is no stand or there is not a great area for parking. I wouldn't mind not having the stand so much as there is a lot of area around the pitch if supporters wouldn't mind getting wet watching the game. Offaly played challenge matches down there many a time and also trained down there over the years as well. There are plenty more grounds around the county which are the very same as Killeigh. By games being played in these pitches it may encourage youngsters to play as they see there county heroes playing at their own clubs ground.
Good pitch in killeigh alright but my god the last time I was in Killeigh the showers and toilets were badly in need of upgrading and that was only last year , any improvement there since?

Killeighman
All Star
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: 2014 WALSH Cup

Post by Killeighman »

The are not the worst i have seen. They have improved ever so slightly. The toilets outside the dressing rooms are as you would expect from a ground like killeigh. Its difficult with lack of income to upgrade such facilities

Post Reply