New Hurling League.

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Plain of the Herbs
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Statement of the Wexford GAA site
Posted on October 2, 2013
Back in April the Irish Examiner ran a piece about the National Hurling League which stated that the structures would not be revisited until 2015. In it Alan Milton from Croke Park warned against ‘constant chopping and changing’ of the league format and that a ‘sea change’ in opinion would be required to change it.
Well here we are in October facing more changes to the league structures, what has inspired this ‘sea change’?

Reading the views of the Cork County Board Chairman, Bob Ryan in today’s Examiner the ‘proposals’ are presented as a fait acompli, Ryan said he;

“was pleased with the new development and paid tribute to the role played by GAA president Liam O’Neill and director general Páraic Duffy. “We welcome this change,” he said. “It’s a good thing, it will allow this Cork team to continue its excellent progress by getting good quality games against the top teams. It gives the top teams seven games each and those games will help them ahead of the championship.”

“What I would like to put on record is how grateful we are to the uachtaráin, Liam O’Neill, and Páraic Duffy, the ard-stiúrthóir. They have taken our suggestions on board. They have brought it to Central Council now and hopefully they will vote it through.”

The about turn is surprising, Wexford are not opposed to change at all but we believe these proposals are the wrong ones. Wexford do however agree with Cork, that more games against top opposition would be beneficial and would help with our championship preparations – hence our opposition to these changes.

Also speaking in today’s ‘Examiner’ Limerick Co Chairman, Oliver Mann articulates more views which we share that “more high profile games [means] bigger attendances and that then leads to a boost in finances for ourselves and the hospitality industry in Limerick. Substitute Wexford for Limerick and this applies to Wexford, Antrim, Offaly…

We’ve been bombarded by emails from supporters and clubs expressing anger and suggesting alternatives. In response the County Chairman has called an Emergency meeting of the Wexford County Board for next Wednesday night 9th of October. All clubs are urged to discuss the matter in advance and mandate their county board reps to advocate a position.
http://www.wexfordgaa.ie/2013/10/specia ... e-changes/
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

True Red
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by True Red »

On this issue are there any soundbites coming from Offaly County board?
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Plain of the Herbs
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

None of which I am aware. All I see in today's print media (Times, Indo, Cork) are the quotes from the Wexford Chairman. I don't see anything on Radio3's Soundcloud thingy either.

Perhaps Offaly approve of the change?
True Red wrote:On this issue are there any soundbites coming from Offaly County board?
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Fido
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Fido »

Padraig Boland makes a good strong statement on this today, picked up by RTE, Irish Times etc. Comparing the rejigging of the league to suit Cork to the attempts by French and English rugby teams to reinvent the European cup to suit their own - financial - desires. Calls a spade a spade, fair play.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic- ... -1.1552131

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: New Hurling League.

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Wexford chairman challenges NHL revamp

Wexford have challenged the GAA's contention that Saturday's vote to restore the Allianz hurling league Division 1 to eight teams requires just a simple majority.

County board chairman Diarmuid Devereux has said reference to rule 3.44(h) of the Official Guide in last week's GAA statement on the matter – meaning only just over 50pc of the vote was required at Saturday's Central Council meeting – is not his county's interpretation of the rule.

According to Devereux, a two-thirds majority will be required because alterations to such regulations under 3.44 "may only be considered on an annual basis" and that a year has not elapsed since the previous change to the league structure was made last December.

"This is still October. It's within a year since the decision to implement change to the 2014 league was taken. Therefore we contend that it can't be a simple majority required for change," he said.

Majority

In December 2012 it was agreed by a majority of Central Council to introduce quarter-finals for the 2014 league.

Devereux said anger among Wexford clubs was rising since last week's announcement that change – the 11th in 17 seasons if it is carried – was on the cards again.

The clubs of the county are due to meet tomorrow night to discuss what's on the table on Saturday.

Devereux also challenged the letter from Croke Park outlining the intention to put forward the proposals this weekend and giving the background to that decision.

It stated that "meetings were recently held with county officers to consider progress on the implementation of the National Hurling Development plan". But Devereux said Wexford had no knowledge of such discussions.

"Where did this suddenly come out of? Who are the officers that discussed this?" he asked.

Devereux claimed that at a meeting of counties in August assurances were given that there would be no change to the league format for 2014.

"We just can't understand how this has cropped up so suddenly if that was the position in August," he said.

Devereux said the sudden nature of this move and the impact it would potentially have on his and other counties did nothing to promote hurling.


He also recalled how Wexford were affected two years ago when the decision to introduce a six-team Division 1 was taken.

"It was an eight-team Division 1 three years ago. We were in that division and we beat Tipperary to stay in it. They told us then that an eight-team Division 1 was a disaster for hurling and they dumped us out of it. Where is the justice in that?"

Devereux noted that his Offaly counterpart Padraig Boland's belief in his weekend statement that Cork's presence in Division 1B was the catalyst for change.

Speaking on local radio over the weekend, Boland compared it to the split that threatens the future of the Heineken Cup.

"It's very similar to what the English and French rugby clubs are at – it's about money, it's the same as the wealthiest soccer clubs across Europe looking to form a breakaway super league in Europe," said the Offaly chairman.

"This is about the big boys dictating to the little boys. To me, it goes against everything that the GAA purports to support in terms of the development of hurling and we would be very much against it.

"What they are saying is that there will be seven top-class matches for the teams in Division 1A and only five matches for the teams in Division 1B.

"Now five games against inferior opposition is no preparation for going in and facing (Offaly's Leinster championship first-round opponents) Kilkenny."

Devereux believes the proposal flies in the face of everything that is being said to Wexford about the future of hurling in their county.

"We're working so hard, and we've been told by the people in charge that Wexford hurling is a top priority for the country. If that's what is meant by top priority, I don't know. We're in shock but it's not over by a long shot," he warned.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Frank Murphy should be able to twist the rule book to allow a simple majority.

kingscounty
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by kingscounty »

Wexford seem to be a lot more worried about the changes in the league than Offaly county board do. We need to be mixing it with the big boys in the league and if we don't stand up like Wexford we will be left behind. It might attract a decent manager if he seen some fight in the county board and if Offaly were playing the tipps,kilkennys,dubs in the league.

Toxicity234
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Re: New Hurling League.

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Wexford County Board affirms their opposition to National League proposals.

At tonight’s Special meeting of the Wexford County Board, County Chairman, Diarmuid Deveraux confirmed that he had formally contacted Croke Park asking for minutes of Ard Comhairle (AC) where the new National Hurling League proposals were discussed. The response received was it that it hasn’t been discussed at AC but members were emailed and opinions sought.

In light of this Wexford have asked that the proposal to be taken off the Clár of Saturdays Ard Comhairle meeting as it is not in order. It was decied at tonight’s meeting that Wexford will fight against the implementation of this proposal. Wexford are seeking a meeting with an Coiste Banaisti (Management Committee) on Friday prior to the AC meeting on Saturday. Wexford insist that a 2/3 majority is required to overturn the status quo.

If these changes occur this will be the 9th change to the National Hurling League structures in 16 years. County Board have resolved, should the motion be passed, that Wexford will oppose them with all means at our disposal and will exhaust all the GAA’s appeal mechanisms and resort to legal remedies should it be required.
Taking for the Wexford Website.
http://www.wexfordgaa.ie/2013/10/wexfor ... dpufCounty

Strong Words from Wexford County Board. Lets hope the Offaly Chairman follows suit.
“Common sense is not so common.”

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Lone Shark
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Lone Shark »

kingscounty wrote:Wexford seem to be a lot more worried about the changes in the league than Offaly county board do. We need to be mixing it with the big boys in the league and if we don't stand up like Wexford we will be left behind. It might attract a decent manager if he seen some fight in the county board and if Offaly were playing the tipps,kilkennys,dubs in the league.
I don't know whether or not that's the case - but that's a big part of the problem, we genuinely don't know what's going on. It's quite obvious that they disapprove of it in the general sense, in much the same way that readers of this site might disapprove of China's one-child policy. Lots of tut-tutting, but nobody in Beijing or Crke Park passing the slightest bit of notice at the same time.

Wexford, in fairness, seem to be willing to go down swinging - I'd have a terrible fear that our lads are in "wait and see" mode, then by the time we get around to doing anything, it'll all be too late. Right now we should have a clear idea of what the next step is if it turns out that this is voted through. Will we pull out, will Wexford, Laois and Antrim join us? Will we pull out even if they don't? What other forms of protest are available to us, and what are we willing to do?
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Round Inside
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Round Inside »

This needs to be opposed tooth and nail, not just for Offaly hurling, but hurling in general. We've finally found a good, competitive league structure, and now they want to abandon it to pander to the needs of Cork.

Toxicity234
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Toxicity234 »

http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=202654
The format for next year's Allianz Hurling League remains unclear after no decision was made by Central Council today on a controversial proposal to include Cork and Limerick in a new eight-team Division 1A next year.

Wexford and Offaly had expressed strong opposition to this proposal, with Model County chiefs even threatening to go down the legal route if it was accepted. Counties will now examine an alternative proposal before Central Council reconvenes to vote on it.

The alternative proposal, which was put forward by National Fixtures Planning Committee member Michael Burns, is somewhat radical in that it would see a seeded system used in two six-team Division 1 sections. Kilkenny, Galway, Tipperary and Waterford would be first seeds, with Clare, Limerick, Dublin and Cork as second seeds.

Wexford, Offaly, Antrim and Laois would also play in the top flight, with each team playing five games in their section with the top two qualifying for semi-finals. The bottom teams in each group would meet in a relegation final. Each county would also play the two teams of the same grade in the opposite section

Alternative Hurling League proposal

1. Step 1:
List the top 12 hurling counties as follows, grading the top four as "A" teams, the next 4 as "B" teams, and the bottom 4 as "C" teams (Based on previous year's league results and subsequent promotion/ relegation).
Example
Counties
1
Tipperary
A
2
Kilkenny
A
3
Galway
A
4
Waterford
A
5
Clare
B
6
Cork
B
7
Limerick
B
8
Dublin
B
9
Offaly
C
10
Wexford
C
11
Antrim
C
12
Laois
C

Step 2
Put teams in 2 equal sections ( two As, two Bs and two Cs in each section). These would be drawn.
SAMPLE
National Hurling League Proposal

Section I

Section II
A
Tipperary
A
Kilkenny
A
Waterford
A
Galway
B
Clare
B
Cork
B
Dublin
B
Limerick
C
Offaly
C
Wexford
C
Laois
C
Antrim

1. Step 3
a. Each County plays each county in its own section once. (5 games)
b. Each County plays the two teams of the same grade in the opposite section (2 games)
c. Top two teams in each section enter semi finals
d. Bottom teams in each section play-off for relegation
1. Team Schedule
A team: Tipperary will play
Waterford (home), Clare (Home), Dublin (Away), Offaly (Home), Laois (Away) (5 games)
Plus Kilkenny (Home) and Galway (Away). (2 games) (Inter-Section games)
B team: Clare will play
Tipperary (Away) Waterford (Home), Dublin (Home), Laois (home) Offaly (Away), (5 games)
Plus Cork (Home) and Limerick (Away). (2 games)
C team: Laois will play
Tipperary (Home) Waterford (Away), Clare (Away), Dublin (Home), Offaly (Away), (5 games)
Plus Wexford (Home) and Antrim (Away). (2 games)
(This gives a slight advantage to 'C' teams but that would be a positive)
1. Each county gets 7 games with at least 3 home games
1. Each county plays at least 2 "A" counties each year
1. All "A" counties will play each other
1. All 10 "strong" hurling counties involved
1. Semi Final and Relegation structure simple

2015 grading will be decided by finishing position in 2014.
“Common sense is not so common.”

Kevin
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Kevin »

Seems in theory that the 'new proposal' is a step in the right direction from an Offaly perspective (if a change to the current system needs to be made).
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Round Inside
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Round Inside »

Looks to be an interesting proposal alright. The problem is, I can't see it lasting long either, it'll be challenged by the top teams. Someone on another forum pointed out that with the two wildcard games, we'd have to play say Laois and Wexford, whereas Waterford could end up playing Tipp and Kilkenny. If the bigger teams started finishing below the tier C teams because of this I can see them wanting to throw out the format again in a year or two

Kevin
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Kevin »

Round Inside wrote:Looks to be an interesting proposal alright. The problem is, I can't see it lasting long either, it'll be challenged by the top teams. Someone on another forum pointed out that with the two wildcard games, we'd have to play say Laois and Wexford, whereas Waterford could end up playing Tipp and Kilkenny. If the bigger teams started finishing below the tier C teams because of this I can see them wanting to throw out the format again in a year or two
The point raised is accurate in that the top teams have a tougher schedule so it isn't specifically 'fair', but it does address the idea of teams playing 'the right' competition based on a merit system. If a team does get knocked down there is no doubt that the point you raise will have been a factor. By the same token the team that takes the drop will benefit from an 'easier' schedule the following year and can prove where they belong by doing it on the field.

In the end, teams will get good games and there is incentive to go at the league hard.

The existing league structure didn't seem too bad either.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Lone Shark
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Re: New Hurling League.

Post by Lone Shark »

There's something mildly unsettling about this proposal in the sense that the goalposts still shouldn't have been moved as they were mid stream. There was plenty of time to play the league in 2014 with Dub/KK/Tipp/CE/GY/WFD in 1A and OY/LS/WX/LK/CK/AM in 1B, and announce before February, what system everyone wants for 2015 and how to qualify for the various tiers.

There are still teams that are a little hard done by, in the sense that Carlow, Westmeath and London will now be playing Liam McCarthy cup against teams that have had more games in preparation. They were always going to be preparing with games against poorer opponents, but that was "earned" on the field of play, so to speak. I was at the 2A final when Laois deservedly beat Westmeath, so on that basis Laois deserve to play at a higher level. Now they've two extra games and a lot of extra funding as well.

It's also technically unfair on the "B" teams that would have played in 1A in 2014. Clare and Dublin would have had games against all four of the supposedly "top" counties, now they'll only play two of them - but that's probably not a huge drawback since there are more games.

It's a relief for Offaly and I suspect that we owe a debt of gratitude to Wexford for taking up the fight here and making sure that this wasn't railroaded through. It's a bit disappointing that we didn't dig our own heels in though.

As an aside, seven league games should mean plenty of double headers, as well as probably putting the kibosh on the idea that Shane Dooley might play both codes for Offaly in 2014. However you'd like to think that our county board is working on this already, though I wouldn't be so sure. As things stand, Limerick, Offaly and Wexford are all in div 3 of the NFL and could all be playing each other in the hurling league as well - Offaly and Wexford will definitely hurl each other and Limerick may or may not. One double header in OCP, another in Wex Park and another in the Gaelic Grounds would be the right way to go. No doubt Cork/Dublin, Laois/Galway and Clare/Tipp/Waterford/Antrim would be thinking along the same lines.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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