New Hurling League.

[Slieve Bloom Man]

Agree with Lone Shark that there is something unsettling about the whole timing of this debacle mid stream. However I actually now thought that 2014 would be played as 1A 6 counties and 1 B 6 counties with Cork and Limerick in it and then the new system would come in 2015. But I'm not in any way sure as a lot things still seem as clear as mud.

The new proposal isn't too bad and is obviously better for Offaly. However I would go a step further and make it 14 teams with 7 in each group. Make Carlow and Westmeath D teams and they play eachother on 2 occasions -once at home and once away. This way all teams have 8 games 4 at home and 4 away. Yes there will be some hammerings but there are plenty of hammerings in other sports ie. rugby, soccer, Aussie Rules, NFL, so on think of the hammering Mayo gave 2012 All Ireland champions Donegal this year. They will happen -only in hurling score looks an awful lot worse when a team get a run on you. Take Carlow - they would play Westmeath twice, play 2 from Offaly, Wex, Laois & Antrim so they could hope to be more than competitive and then would have 4 very tough games against top teams. But still it'd be great for Carlow if Clare or Kilkenny had to travel to Dr Cullen Park for a game. Definitely Carlow/Westmeath would be better off in Top 14 than lower league.

Still feel time should be taken on any decision and not introduced till 2015.

There's something mildly unsettling about this proposal in the sense that the goalposts still shouldn't have been moved as they were mid stream. There was plenty of time to play the league in 2014 with Dub/KK/Tipp/CE/GY/WFD in 1A and OY/LS/WX/LK/CK/AM in 1B, and announce before February, what system everyone wants for 2015 and how to qualify for the various tiers.

There are still teams that are a little hard done by, in the sense that Carlow, Westmeath and London will now be playing Liam McCarthy cup against teams that have had more games in preparation. They were always going to be preparing with games against poorer opponents, but that was "earned" on the field of play, so to speak. I was at the 2A final when Laois deservedly beat Westmeath, so on that basis Laois deserve to play at a higher level. Now they've two extra games and a lot of extra funding as well.

It's also technically unfair on the "B" teams that would have played in 1A in 2014. Clare and Dublin would have had games against all four of the supposedly "top" counties, now they'll only play two of them - but that's probably not a huge drawback since there are more games.

It's a relief for Offaly and I suspect that we owe a debt of gratitude to Wexford for taking up the fight here and making sure that this wasn't railroaded through. It's a bit disappointing that we didn't dig our own heels in though.

As an aside, seven league games should mean plenty of double headers, as well as probably putting the kibosh on the idea that Shane Dooley might play both codes for Offaly in 2014. However you'd like to think that our county board is working on this already, though I wouldn't be so sure. As things stand, Limerick, Offaly and Wexford are all in div 3 of the NFL and could all be playing each other in the hurling league as well - Offaly and Wexford will definitely hurl each other and Limerick may or may not. One double header in OCP, another in Wex Park and another in the Gaelic Grounds would be the right way to go. No doubt Cork/Dublin, Laois/Galway and Clare/Tipp/Waterford/Antrim would be thinking along the same lines.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Nooo. The reason for the change remains the same - that Limerick and Cork would be playing against the leading counties in the 2014 league.

It evidently is the case that Wexford's objection (on the grounds that a year had not elapsed since the previous change) was a valid one. The proposal made last Saturday is designed with Limerick and Cork foremost in their thoughts, it is hoped that Wexford will be sufficiently satisfied that they will call off the dogs, while Carlow and Westmeath don't matter at Central level and can pyss off.

Now, if the change to a 14-team Division 1 was out of order last Saturday on the grounds of the 12-month rule, then the proposal aired on Saturday sure as Hell is out of order. But will Wexford be sufficiently sated to agree to the proposal?

Agree with Lone Shark that there is something unsettling about the whole timing of this debacle mid stream. However I actually now thought that 2014 would be played as 1A 6 counties and 1 B 6 counties with Cork and Limerick in it and then the new system would come in 2015. But I'm not in any way sure as a lot things still seem as clear as mud.

[puzzled]

Anyone know when a decision will be taken on the league set up?

[Toxicity234]

NHL restructure: Carlow (and Westmeath) have "a good chance"

Carlow feel they are in with "a good chance" of having themselves and Westmeath included in a new Top 14 hurling league system.

Plans were already afoot for a twelve-team top tier but the Suirsiders and the Lake County - both of whom are determined not to be left out in the cold - have been given until November 16th to stake a claim for inclusion in the NHL's elite sector.

"We have received good feedback to our proposal," chairman Michael Meaney informs The Irish Independent. "Two leading officials from the so-called top 12 counties already contacted me to indicate they will support us, and we would envisage that the other counties at Christy Ring level and below will do likewise, for they could be in the same situation themselves soon.

"But we have a lot of lobbying to do. Our proposals have a good chance but it will be hard to sway people.

"We had to try something, though. Since 2008, we have really been doing our utmost to promote hurling. We are one of the few remaining so-called weaker counties that are trying to keep both codes alive. We feel that including ourselves and Westmeath in the new structure will be a perfect fit.

"The GAA maintain that they have to draw the line somewhere and that's fair enough. But beneath us, every other team bar London is not involved in the Liam MacCarthy Cup. And London are happy enough with their present league status, so it's a natural move that 14 Liam MacCarthy teams are included in the new system.

"We have to convince others of that now, but we're going to try hard. Way too much work has been invested here to boost hurling.

"We lost four Division 1B games by very, very narrow margins this spring, we pushed Wexford hard in the qualifiers, beat Dublin in the under 21 championship and now we want stability. We won't get that by reverting back to what is essentially a third-tier league grouping.

"We want to drive on with what we have achieved to date, to see the likes of Clare coming to Dr Cullen Park. Imagine what that would do for this county!"

I hope this get passed. I think changing the league is wrong but given Carlow the chance to build on the progress they made over the last few years is important.
So what do you think lads a Super 14 League.

[Kevin]

Other than having 14 teams, are there any details as to how it would work?

[Slieve Bloom Man]

No details that I know of. As I said - I would like to see them simply expand Michael Burns proposal and make Carlow & Westmeath D graded teams. They would simply play each other twice - once at home and once away (all other sections just play the extra team from their own grading.) All teams would have 8 games and Michael Burns proposal would remain intact with the only slight change being 2 extra teams.

[Kevin]

No details that I know of. As I said - I would like to see them simply expand Michael Burns proposal and make Carlow & Westmeath D graded teams. They would simply play each other twice - once at home and once away (all other sections just play the extra team from their own grading.) All teams would have 8 games and Michael Burns proposal would remain intact with the only slight change being 2 extra teams.

Seems reasonable enough. Lets hope they go for it and move on...

[Slieve Bloom Man]

No change to hurling league format
16 November 2013

Cork and Limerick fans make their way to the Gaelic Grounds.
©INPHO/James Crombie.Central Council has voted to retain the structure which applied for last season's Allianz Hurling League.

It means that Munster champions Limerick will remain in Division 1B where they will be joined by All-Ireland final runners-up Cork, who were relegated from Division 1A last spring. The only change to the existing format will see the addition of quarter-finals in the top divisions.

Division 1A will comprise Kilkenny, Clare, Waterford, Galway, Tipperary and Dublin. Division 1B will be made up of Limerick, Cork, Offaly, Antrim, Laois and Wexford.

Three different proposals had been put to Council delegates. The first was to retain this season's structure. The second was to approve a new 12-county Division 1 which would have been seeded and divided into two sections of six teams.

The third proposal was essentially the same with Carlow and Westmeath included in the top flight to make up a so-called Super 14. This joint-proposal from Carlow and Westmeath was defeated by just two votes, 19-17.

Today's decision means Croke Park chiefs can finally get down to the business of drawing up the fixtures for the 2014 Allianz Hurling League, which will get underway in less than three months' time. - See more at: http://www.hoganstand.com/

Hope they put some planning into 2015 league now and announce any changes before 2014 league so teams know where they need to finish.

[Slieve Bloom Man]

Just after reading the following - this makes a complete joke of it! Taken from RTE website.

The only tweak to the previous structure will see quarter-finals introduced, with the top four teams in 1A facing the top four from 1B.
Previously the three highest-placed teams in 1A and the 1B winners earned semi-final spots.
A move by Westmeath and Carlow to have the top-tiers expanded to 14 teams overall was narrowly defeated.
A GAA statement said “The new arrangements will run for three years, concurrently with the changes pending for the championships, which also come into effect next year, allowing for a full review of the two main hurling competitions in 2016.”

[Lone Shark]

Hope they put some planning into 2015 league now and announce any changes before 2014 league so teams know where they need to finish.

Absolutely. If an eight team first division is the way they want to go, that's fine - but it should be clear what each team has to do to get into it. Something like 4 from 1A, 2 from 1B and two playoffs involving 5th in 1A, 3rd and 4th in 1B and 1st in 2A would give everyone a shout at getting there.

[Lone Shark]

The mask slips from the Rebels in the Examiner today a little, in terms of how they see Offaly, and indeed some other counties.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/ ... 50168.html

Also at the meeting, St Mary’s delegate John Corcoran lamented the fact Cork, having attracted over 320,000 people to championship games this summer, would only have one marquee home game — the opener against Limerick — in the 2014 league following the decision to stay with six teams in Divisions 1A and 1B.

The St Mary’s delegate also hit out at Carlow captain Edward Coady, who had said Central Council was right not to allow Cork “dictate the structure of the league”.

Corcoran said: “For somebody from Carlow to be lecturing Cork on hurling is akin to Jedward telling Pavarotti how to sing.”

[Plain of the Herbs]

Offaly’s NHL fixtures for 2014 appear to be as follows –
Round 1 on Sunday 16th February – home v Laois
Round 2 on Sunday 23rd February – away v Wexford
Round 3 on Sunday 9th March – away v Cork
Round 4 on Sunday 16th March – home v Limerick
Round 5 on Sunday 23rd March – home v Antrim
Quarter-final on Sunday 30th March

There’s something not right here. Generally the team who comes down from the upper division takes over the fixtures of the team who was promoted. The same goes for the team relegated to the lower division and the team promoted from the lower division. If this was the case Offaly’s fixtures would have been Cork H, Wexford A, Laois H, Limerick A and Antrim H. For some reason the team relegated from Division 1B (Carlow) have been replaced by Cork (relegated from 1A) and Dublin have been replaced by Laois. That mightn’t seem a big deal but the upshot is that Offaly have to travel to Cork instead of hosting them.

On closer inspection, this seems to be engineered so Cork can play Limerick in round 1, and additionally so it can be played in Cork (Limerick travelled to Croke PArk to play Dublin last year so logically the Limerick v Cork match should be at a Limerick venue). Also, Dublin had three home matches last year and so Cork should have two home matches this year. Cork have three home matches in 2014. And feck everyone else.

Wexford had two home matches last year (Antrim and Dublin) and for the trouble of pointing out the shortcomings of the proposed (and now binned) format have just two home matches again next year (Offaly and Laois).

Furthermore they are depending on a schedule that will be absolutely unaffected by weather in March next year. Rounds 3, 4 and 5 and the quarter-finals are all on successive weekends and there is no scope for postponements owing to unplayable pitches. Good luck with that, GAA.

[weisford]

Spot on Plain of Herbs

They are making sure Cork finances do not suffer anyway they can.

[Plain of the Herbs]

So who’s got the home matches next year?

Cork: Limerick H, Laois A, Offaly H, Antrim A, Wexford H
In 2013 Dublin had OY H, AM A, LK H, WX A, CW H

Limerick: Cork A, Antrim H, Wexford H, Offaly A, Laois A
2013 had AM A , CW H, D A, OY A, WX H

Offaly: Laois H, Wexford A, Cork A, Limerick H, Antrim H
2013 had D A, WX H, CW A, LK H, AM A

Wexford: Antrim A, Offaly H, Limerick A, Laois H, Cork A
2013 had CW A, OY A, AM H, D H, LK A

Antrim: Wexford H, Limerick A, Laois A, Cork H, Offaly A
2013 had LK A, D H, WX A, CW A, OY H

Laois: Offaly A, Cork H, Antrim H, Wexford A, Limerick H
In 2013 Carlow had WX H, LK A, OY H, AM H, D A

Dammit, the fixtures were made by a Cork man, for Cork men, whose wife ran away with a Wexford man.

[Bord na Mona man]

Was fully sure we were going to be hosting the langers in Tellamore!