Offaly county team managements 2014

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Great debate lads!
Just a point on Owens, is it that as a manager he has created the environment that the players who take to the field have the game management skills to adapt to certain situations, and react as they see it. Possibly using some preordained moves to be made when the situation arises?
In my mind as Durra says, this is the ideal role as a manager. Danny Owens with the right back room team around him would certainly be far better than Micheal Cleary.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Should read , ideal scenario for a manager. Players manage the game on the field and should be free to move and cover off scenarios that will have been planned during training.

[substandard]

I think the key here as what the most recent posts seem to be alluding to, and that's the make-up of a management team. The role of the manager, for me, is all about coordination, and bringing together various strands of work such as strength and conditioning, defensive coaching, forward coaching, etc. If the use of a sports psychologist or nutritioist is part of the plan, then that has to be incorporated as well. If all strands are working towards the same template, then the manager is doing his job well if the players available are delivering to their potential.
From following this thread in particular, it is clear that Baker was not considered a good manager, nor was Joe Dooley, nor was John McIntyre- and the same could be applied to attitudes regarding football managers. I think it's very hard to define what it would take to be classed as a good manager if you were to read back over the posts- and this is NOT a criticism or endorsement of any views stated, just an observation.
What would a realistic target be for the 2014 hurling squad? What would be a bonus outcome, a stage the team could reach that would be one step beyond reasonable expectation?
Ditto for the footballers. Now what would a 3 year projection have as goals?
Getting a 'name' as a manager would really only be a small part of the solution, because neither the problem nor the answers are clearcut, nor are the aspirations. I do believe that the make-up of a backroom team providing specialist expertise in given fields that will enable the players to achieve their maximum potential is critical, so maybe it's top-class coaches rather than a manager we should be looking for.

[kingscounty]

I think the key here as what the most recent posts seem to be alluding to, and that's the make-up of a management team. The role of the manager, for me, is all about coordination, and bringing together various strands of work such as strength and conditioning, defensive coaching, forward coaching, etc. If the use of a sports psychologist or nutritioist is part of the plan, then that has to be incorporated as well. If all strands are working towards the same template, then the manager is doing his job well if the players available are delivering to their potential.
From following this thread in particular, it is clear that Baker was not considered a good manager, nor was Joe Dooley, nor was John McIntyre- and the same could be applied to attitudes regarding football managers. I think it's very hard to define what it would take to be classed as a good manager if you were to read back over the posts- and this is NOT a criticism or endorsement of any views stated, just an observation.
What would a realistic target be for the 2014 hurling squad? What would be a bonus outcome, a stage the team could reach that would be one step beyond reasonable expectation?
Ditto for the footballers. Now what would a 3 year projection have as goals?
Getting a 'name' as a manager would really only be a small part of the solution, because neither the problem nor the answers are clearcut, nor are the aspirations. I do believe that the make-up of a backroom team providing specialist expertise in given fields that will enable the players to achieve their maximum potential is critical, so maybe it's top-class coaches rather than a manager we should be looking for.

Very good post, your point on backroom team is very good, if we look at Dublin footballers Gavin is manager but really he is part of a team that he has assembled , Dunne, Darcy from Leitrim and 3 or 4 others. Donegal had Jimmy but his coaches were big reason for success, Cody has Dempsey, I know all of this costs money but it seems to be the only way forward. What would be the point in bringing in a big name and then give him very little to work with.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Just to pick up on the point on all those K-K puckouts where Pádraic Maher supposedly flinched under flying Kilcormac timber. Because my recollection of the game is that Maher was kept out of the game because K-K kept the ball away from him. So let's see what happened those forst six puckouts.

Conor Slevin put his first two puckouts down between Conor Mahon and Pádraic Maher. Both times the ball broke, Damien Kilmartin won the first and put K-K on the attack. Next time Killian Leonard was first to the breaking ball the but elected to swipe on the ground and gave possession away. The third and fourth went down either wing and Thurles gained possession from both. The fifth was nicely placed low to Conor Mahon who gained possession while the sixth was missed as TV were showing replays but a throw-ball resulted so it hardly went down the middle.

Now whether is was two or six puckouts went down the middle is neither here or there in the sheme of Danny Owens as a hurling oracle. At this stage I am more concerned with the coughing up of possession through the method of 'ground hurling'. Is it any wonder no Offaly man has been successful managing outside the county?

great post durra just one thing i feel d owens is very hands on as a manager i rember he told c slevin to put the first 6 puckout down on top of p maher in the thurles game and told c mahon not to try catching them just break them and thats what happened and c mahon completely destroyed maher .that tactics most modern managers would keep the ball away from maher

[jimbob17]

Some excellent points on this thread......

Going back to the issue of manager, i think the eddie brennan idea is ridiculous..... no experience and we are willing to take a punt on a novice.... would Kilkenny take a chance on Brendan Murphy managing them.... i think not!! Perhaps have some involvement as a coach but really you should earn your stripes as a coach before you are considered at this level.....

There are a few out there and a good joint team incl manager and selectors could be made from the following: Managerial candidates: Danny Owens, Ger Coughlan, Liam Hogan, Ken Hogan, Vincent Teehan, Kevin Martin & Cillian Farrell?????

selector/coaching options: any of the above plus Johnny Dooley, Johnny Pilkington, Damian Fox, Brian Whelehan, Steven Byrne, John Troy, Aidan Hanrahan, Donal Franks, Jimmy Dunne, Cillian Farrell, Joe Errity, Adrian Cahill.

Why on Gods earthly world can we not have pride in who we are, value our own hurling knowledge and masses of experience which other counties envy and use them to garner a bit more respect in ourselves and our jersey..... Isnt it what Cork Kilkenny and tipp do the whole time!!!!!

You're just name checking every Offaly man who lifted a fertilzer bag full of hurleys on the sideline at this stage.
If our hurling knowledge was the envy of other counties then we'd surely have more success stories than sackings when it comes to Offaly managers working in other counties.

In fairness, i am just trying to make a valid point and 3 of the above would do a much better job than Eddie Brennan in my opinion. So what if i list a few names.... I probably even left a few out.......

Three good Offaly hurling people with a bit of knowledge, game understanding and strategy, know how and communication skills will be respected by the players if they are backed up by a qualified backroom team who know what they are about. As Substandard says, it needs to be an all round approach with all moving and working towards the one template with a sound backroom team providing the expertise in the various areas is the key....

[sam88885a]

plain as herbs u missed my point d owens instructed c slevin where to put the first 6 puckout down between p maher and c mahon .
mahon was not to try catch the ball but also not let p maher catch them as he and the thurles team thought he would .i was aware of this tactic before the match and watch with intrest because p maher is brilliant in the air and i though it was a mistake and when the first few puckout came between them,p maher did not catch then . how many puckout i cant rember but it was a tactic where u agree that it was correct tactic does not matter but it worked.
the big question is what style suit our hurlers i belive we are closer to kilkenny style than clare ,u seem to think the opposite and ur entitle to ur view .
finaly i am not making the story up about d owens tactic for p maher whether he get the job or not all i saying it wrong to potray him as a lucky fool who does not understand hurling and would have notting to offer offaly hurling as part of a managment team.
m cleary is now the latest name put out there surely it pat cleary is who the mean???

[jimbob17]

Michael Cleary did a great job with the Tipp camoige team a few years ago and would have a very good rep as a coach in Tipp having worked with a few senior clubs..... I guess that also puts Joachim Kelly in the frame for the Offaly gig....

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

By the way, best of luck to David Connolly on his appointment to the Offaly minor selectors role. This is a man that has a lot to offer, and this is just reward for his efforts at club level. A tidy forward in his day and he might be able to offer Pascal some advice on a more expensive game.

[The Bogman]

plain as herbs u missed my point d owens instructed c slevin where to put the first 6 puckout down between p maher and c mahon .
mahon was not to try catch the ball but also not let p maher catch them as he and the thurles team thought he would .i was aware of this tactic before the match and watch with intrest because p maher is brilliant in the air and i though it was a mistake and when the first few puckout came between them,p maher did not catch then . how many puckout i cant rember but it was a tactic where u agree that it was correct tactic does not matter but it worked.
the big question is what style suit our hurlers i belive we are closer to kilkenny style than clare ,u seem to think the opposite and ur entitle to ur view .
finaly i am not making the story up about d owens tactic for p maher whether he get the job or not all i saying it wrong to potray him as a lucky fool who does not understand hurling and would have notting to offer offaly hurling as part of a managment team.
m cleary is now the latest name put out there surely it pat cleary is who the mean???

I gave up trying to read that after the first line. A little bit of grammar and good spelling wouldn't go amiss sometimes. Although, I might add, you're not the only culprit.

[blinkers]

Brian whelahan to be recommended for senior hurling job. According to b lowry over on twitter.

New minor manager needed now. Jaysus our county board do things arseways.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Brian it is. Should be interesting. Offaly's greatest ever hurler.

Whatever about his knowledge about modern strength/conditioning etc - his ability to 'read' a game was unsurpassed. I'd be relatively confident he'd pick a team correctly.
Rethinking the team and blooding new players is of paramount importance. The Offaly team that lost to Waterford this year was remarkably similar to that which lost to the same opposition 5 years previously in Thurles. No progress made - time for change.

A good coach is key. Critical. Get Francis Forde involved and I'd be delighted.

May we live in interesting times.

[westender]

New manager Brian whelehan

[timber]

Really?

Great record on the field. Greatest hurler I ever witnessed. Dont know about his record managing teams though?

[kingscounty]

If he does get it id like to wish him all the best. He was a legend of a player, if he can bring his skill and reading of the game as a player to management I have no doubt he will do well. We cant expect a lot from his first year in charge as he will need to bed in and get to grips with the role, even in his second year it will still be a building job , id like to see them give him 3 or 4 years , from the reports he is only getting two years. Its nearly November now and we only sorting this now, it should have been done months ago, the footballers are back in training already.