Offaly county team managements 2014

[GreatDayForTheParish]

This is very disappointing. Hopefully cool heads will prevail and that efforts are made to resolve any difficulties with Michael.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

None of you guys know what has been said, who has been interviewed, what their responses were etc.
We are a middle tier county with limited resources, dual county also. We have no underage success and any investigation would suggest we are still off the mark in our underage set up. This is a crucial appointment, and it is disappointing that it has not been done at this stage.
None of you mentioned Duignan in the build up to this. You all wrote off Danny Owens, whom it was reported would get the job, yet as of Sunday night he had not been contacted about it.
So all you can do is talk rubbish about Benny Hill and the like, lets wait and see. Our County Board is far from perfect but its what is there due to inactivity in clubs from guys like ourselves. You get what you deserve, like the lads in the Seanad rubbing their hands at the naivity of the public.

Point is, we aint an attractive proposition anymore.

[Lone Shark]

None of you guys know what has been said, who has been interviewed, what their responses were etc.

With all due respect, a lot of the guys on this board are involved in different ways. Offaly is a small county and while I would never presume that every rumour you hear is Gospel truth, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that lads might be reasonably clued in either.

You all wrote off Danny Owens, whom it was reported would get the job, yet as of Sunday night he had not been contacted about it.

Where was this reported? I haven't seen such a thing written in the local papers or online.

I've seen plenty of articles list his name as a potential candidate and I've seen comments from Owens stating that he would possibly be interested in taking on the job, but I haven't seen anything that hinted that he was considered, much less that he was anywhere close to being appointed. I'm not saying that this isn't the case - but if you could provide a link, that would be great.

[allsorts]

according to Hogan Stand "Danny Owens says he hasn't been approached about the post"

http://www.hoganstand.com/offaly/Articl ... ?ID=202421

[durra1]

Ahlethimoutwithit it’s clear from your posts that you’re involved in underage coaching and for that , hats off to you. As you appear to regularly allude to - many could be involved but choose not to be. For obvious reasons, not everyone can commit to coaching.

In my view, Danny Owens ought to have been at least approached about the position prior to a shortlisting process by the OCB. Lads are entitled to have this say on this issue on this forum and if they want to pontificate about the possible candidacy of Danny Owens, José Muhurino or the Man on the Moon then that’s fine with me.

I stand by all I say about the OCB and how they have handled hurling in the county in the last 15 years (have a look at ‘Offaly Minors 2013).

You seem to want to absolve them from responsibility and blame the clubs - your entitled to your own opinion on that one.

What happened over the weekend is nothing short of a fiasco in PR terms. If you ran a business in the glare of the public eye (as the OCB effectively does), would you announce to the world that you had selected a candidate (thereby notifying all unsuccessful candidates) and set a date for the announcement of the successful candidate unless you knew you had the candidate 100% sewn up and in the bag?

Now the OCB must turn around to the candidates they refused and negotiate from a weaker position.

If they all tell the OCB to run and take a jump, the OCP are back to square one and have to start the process all over again under the glare of national scrutiny and will probably rush to fill the position to save face.

You rightfully point out that we are not a very attractive proposition at the moment.

How much more unattractive do we now look to candidates # 2 , # 3 and # 4 …? I can tell you now - twice as unattractive.

[Kevin]

What happened over the weekend is nothing short of a fiasco in PR terms. If you ran a business in the glare of the public eye (as the OCB effectively does), would you announce to the world that you had selected a candidate (thereby notifying all unsuccessful candidates) and set a date for the announcement of the successful candidate unless you knew you had the candidate 100% sewn up and in the bag?

Too true.

Having a candidate with the right profile and drive interested enough to jump in now will require some luck among other things.

[sam88885a]

None of you guys know what has been said, who has been interviewed, what their responses were etc.

With all due respect, a lot of the guys on this board are involved in different ways. Offaly is a small county and while I would never presume that every rumour you hear is Gospel truth, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that lads might be reasonably clued in either.

You all wrote off Danny Owens, whom it was reported would get the job, yet as of Sunday night he had not been contacted about it.

Where was this reported? I haven't seen such a thing written in the local papers or online.

I've seen plenty of articles list his name as a potential candidate and I've seen comments from Owens stating that he would possibly be interested in taking on the job, but I haven't seen anything that hinted that he was considered, much less that he was anywhere close to being appointed. I'm not saying that this isn't the case - but if you could provide a link, that would be great.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Sorry for genuine guys who have an interest in their clubs etc. But lets face it, we are not blessed with talent at CB level. The current situation where our tresury alternates between the same 2 individuals every 5 years is case in point. The maxim, "if you always do what youve always done...." springs to mind.

There are always leaks about management candidates. Obviously CB thought they had their man, and Duignan went public to rule himself out.
Too my mind, though, Its easy for lads to criticise, we need more guys getting involved who are willing to change things , and how they operate. Football seems to be making headway, but the hurling fraternity seem to be going backways. And what seems to be happening is that the emphasis is more on the club.

I dont know hurling as deeply as you guys do, but personally I like the work that Danny Owens has done with KK, and some of the commentary about him here was unfair. Lads jumping up and down in favour of appointing Eddie Brennan, who has no experience?
Even Duignan has very limited experience. We are an unattractive proposition and it is a tough appointment to get right. Our CB are surely doing their best despite their limitations and some of the sneering atitude from some on this and other forums are disappointing.
If you aint happy , do something!

[Toxicity234]

Well Lads, Another Week has passed and after last week PR F**k up, The Offaly County Board are scrambling around like a blind man looking for a flash light in the dark. Its all a bit pointless.
whoever they approach now for the job now is on a hiding to nothing.

Firstly Duignan was approach and offered the job. He must have said he was going to go it. otherwise the C.B. would not have made such an arse of themselves last week. Duignan need to come out and explain in detail what happen.
He need to do this so that whatever manager comes after him has a chance to start with a clean slate. otherwise the new manger is always going to be second man and will struggle with both the county board and the players on and off the panel.
Duignan need to be complete honest in his statement. If he didn't take the job because the county board would put the the back room staff in place, He need to say is. If it was because they couldn't agree a financial package, said it. People might not like it but they will understand it. If it was he felt he could not commit to the job fully, they is no shame in that.
Whatever the hell happen. It should have being handle better by the CB. they should have said nothing. But we in a very bad situation now. and since the information is out in the public domain. Both Duignan and the CB need to tie this off, otherwise it will drag into the new manager rein. And that would be a disaster.

Listen to Offaly Hurling People over the last month or so, it very dis-hearting. It feels like we have gone back in time to the early 70's where clubs rival is getting drag into the county board, the selecting of players and on to the county panel.
When Dermot Healy arrived to us in 1979 thing change and he gave is the mentality of being a big club team. that what we need to get back to. Its disappointing to hear Offaly fan have forgotten this.

The County Board will now have to go back and look at the way it selecting of our manager works. How Danny Owens and Ken Hogan was not give the 20 or 30 mins to make him case for the Offaly job is a shambles. Even if the C.B. didn't give them the job 30 mins would not have kill anyone.
For talking to hurling people around the county. Birr and Clareen Club fans are complete against Danny Owens getting the job and they biggest problem is "aw he too stuck in the 80".
asked how plays the best hurling in the county they say "aw sure they no hurling in the county" the only hurler we have are Rory Hanniffy or Joe Bergin. One Birr man said to me "why would you interview Owens sure he doesn't have an All-Star"
and a Clareen man referred to something that happen on the field of play between Owens and a Clareen player 20 years ago. attitude like this have Offaly hurling where it is today. There is too much politics, back stabbing and rubbish that has made it way into the county. The clubs are to blame as well. Clubs are letting rivalry affect the county and worse it affect players and official judgement. That never good. Hurling club in Offaly need to step up as well and voice their unhappiness at the County Board system this time around. 4 people are holding the future of Offaly hurling in their hand and they have just dropped the ball.

Now Padraig Boland and Joe Higgins have a major job on there hands now. Duignan, despite his lack of experiences could have be an OK appointment. The Meath hurlers that i know that hurler under him always spoke well of him.
that gone now. So will Boland and Higgins force the four-man selection committee to interview Owens and try to approach Hogan. Or Will Boland and Higgins disband this incompetent committee and take on the job themselves or appoint an new committee that have Offaly hurling at it heart.

The really frustration thing about this is that when Baker Left. there was 2 Manager that pop into my and everyone else mind. Hogan and Owens. They should have be approached within 48 hours of the committee being appointed. Approached and given an interview straight away. It was only an interview. 30 mins out of everyone life. Nothing. if you had to call them back a few weeks later for a second interview so be it. The committee F**ked this up, Big time. The committee should have had time to look around to see what other manager were interested over the next two or three weeks.

I don't trust this Committee to appoint anyone of an class to be Offaly manager now and whoever they appoint is now tarnished. i hope that Boland and Higgins talk to David Kenny and disband this incompetent committee and do the interview themselves. ( all 3 of them). This is far from ideal, but no-one in the county that thinks back over the last week would have any faith in this dumbass committee that had made such a mess to appoint a manager.

Offaly Hurling is on dangerous ground with this committee in charge. There is the possibility that the "committee" will panic and appoint someone, anyone to safe face. Over the last few days name like Eddie Brennan, Johnny Dooley, Brian Whelehan, Johnny Pilikington, Daithi Regan, Hell i even heard someone say John McIntyre being talk about. Pilikington in 6 years time will be a good manger but he not there yet, to appoint any of these would be a mistake.

I said at the start of this after Baker left, that it was so late in the year that they was only two manager that could be considered, Hogan and Owens. Now it the middle of October. a new manager will not see club hurling until may 2014. So he would have to work with Baker panel from last year. unless you go for someone inside the county.

Let hope this committee can swallow it pride go back to Hogan and Owens and get them into the job.

[sam88885a]

well said toxicity
this is a mess but offaly has been a mess for years . club hurling has been top class with birr tullamore colldery and kk representing offaly with pride so there is talent there but our county teams at all levels have been a mess . watching kk win the leinster final playing hurling like offaly played in the 80s and 90s was trilling.
we meet tommy walsh at half time that day and he asked us what was going on in offaly who was picking the offaly pannel and that more of those kk were not playing for offaly , he said they played a great brand of hurling and look much better than lots of the lads that had played for offaly over the last few years.
yet most offaly people will tell u that we have no hurlers.
i belive that even without the kk offaly can pick two strong team
.j demsey s ryan d kenny s egan j rigney c egan d morkam d hayden k brady c parlon j bergin r hannify b carroll p cleary s dooley

c clancy s coughlan d kelliher s wynne d king d shortt d monney p camon s gardner b murphy t carroll g conneely s quirke k connoly e ryan
that just a sample of two teams there are another 10 players as good without the kk lads.
my point is we need to get a manager to create a club spirit in the offaly team , our size was always a plus for us but outside managers used it as an excuse when the failed.
d owens seem to be the only man that want the job but cb dont want him neither did kk want him but he did not let that affect him and if he did as well with offaly in the first year we all be happy.
no one man will turn this ship around it will take a huge efford for a managment team and backroom video analist and medical team etc to get offaly back to the top table.
one plus d owen has he creates a spirit in a team and really belives in offaly own hurling style he is also a good coach look how c mahon hurling since owens worked with him . i feel e coughlan j errity b dolley m hanammy h rigney b whelahan k martain have a lot to offer and its their turn to help offaly it was done for them .
the county board need to get the right team in place very soon because most counties have next years plans in place now .things can only improve after baker he would destroy a good team and put the supporters asleep watching offaly play bad slow hurling.

[Plain of the Herbs]

For those proponents of Danny Owens - Danny Owens has no experience of modern inter-county hurling. It's all very well managing his club to win back-to-back Senior titles in the most backward of hurling counties (as far as modern hurling goes), and that club should had been underachieving for a number of years. A love of the traditional Offaly style is one thing - how would he cope with an opposing inter-county team playing a possession game? How would he cope with Laois in the forthcoming league who will play with at least seven defenders and possibly eight? We don't know, and neither does he, because he has yet to experience that.

This is where someone like Eddie Brennan (for example) would be of benefit. I agree he has no management experience but he knows what it takes to succeed in the modern game. He has experience from his recent playing days of how to counter the opposition playing a different style (possession game, teams with a one-man full-forward line, sweepers etc.). For me there is less of a 'pig in a poke' about someone like Eddie Brennan.

[sam88885a]

i have to diagree kilkenny never played possision hurling . the played with 6 back two midfielders deep and left lots of room up for the forwards not with big lads down the middle and defended the puck outs and launched for there . kk are not noy like that very simple style. how do u know that e brennan or d og cusack can create a winning spirit .both could have be great but the could be useless also d owen can create a team spirit if he is weak in any area put some along side who is strong at game plans. i never said owens was perfect but he has any strenghts

[Toxicity234]

For those proponents of Danny Owens - Danny Owens has no experience of modern inter-county hurling. It's all very well managing his club to win back-to-back Senior titles in the most backward of hurling counties (as far as modern hurling goes), and that club should had been underachieving for a number of years. A love of the traditional Offaly style is one thing - how would he cope with an opposing inter-county team playing a possession game? How would he cope with Laois in the forthcoming league who will play with at least seven defenders and possibly eight? We don't know, and neither does he, because he has yet to experience that.

This is where someone like Eddie Brennan (for example) would be of benefit. I agree he has no management experience but he knows what it takes to succeed in the modern game. He has experience from his recent playing days of how to counter the opposition playing a different style (possession game, teams with a one-man full-forward line, sweepers etc.). For me there is less of a 'pig in a poke' about someone like Eddie Brennan.

Its true that Danny Owens has no experience of modern inter-county hurling. As for Eddie Brennan has no experience of management at all. None. How he could be a better manager than someone who has years of experiences. I can't see Brian Cody ever wondering over in training before a match as asking Eddie Brennan does he have any idea of how to beat a team. Now i can see Cody asking Shefflin or Walsh for input but not Brennan.
So maybe Offaly should go to Kilkenny as ask Shefflin to manage us.

As for Modern Hurling. this is a made up term for tactics. Both team has tactics, Your tactics is to get the best out of your team. Offaly have fail at modern hurling because we are trying to play a bastardized version of Munster hurling for the last 5 or 6 years. We have lost our faith in what made us great. If we try to play like Kilkenny we lose. If we try to play like Clare we lose. if we try to play like Tipperery we lose. If we try to play like anyone else we will lose.

Our only hope of winning is to believe in ourselves and play like Offaly. That mean that you start with a tactics that the player understand and you make small adjustment over the course of a few years to improve both player and tactics. You don’t hire someone that has a game plan in their head that worked in some other county. Who arrives into training and goes who are you? to the players and then goes ok we are playing possession hurling from now on. You hire someone who can look at the players and say well these lads play best when we play direct so how do I set up my team and what small change can I make to improve this tactics and get the best out of my players. Sometime that mean adjusting our tactics to counter the opposition, So be it. Sometime the opposition will have to change there tactics to deal with us.
Fundamentally changing the way we play because our manager want us to play modern hurling like Clare or Kilkenny doesn't not work. for 2 reason. its is completely different from that the clubs in Offaly Play and it destroys player confidence because player are making mistake trying to learn a new system.

If we want to change the style of play in Offaly. you don't start at County level, You start at Club Level. You go to each Club in the county and you tell them they need to change.

The idea of Eddie Brennan being Offaly Manager at this stage would be a step up in the madness that has being around Offaly Hurling for the last 10 years. I would take Eddie as a selector an day of the week but not as a manager.
At this moment in time I would take Johnny Pilkington or Padraig Horan ahead of Eddie Brennan. After he has managed a few teams and maybe a club in Offaly if possible, I would have him as manager. But it way too early for him to be given such a job.

This is Offaly. At the moment we have a way of playing Hurling that is our way of playing Hurling. Rightly or Wrongly. It’s our way.
If you want to change hurling you go back work with the clubs. The idea that some messiah I going to arrive and bring modern hurling with him is crazy. When Dermot Healy arrive he didn’t change Offaly hurling style, He improve it and improve the players attitude.

Two things are true in any sport. Tactics are important. and know what tactics get the best out of your players, horses or robot warrior is 1000% more important than knowing your opponent tactics.

[Plain of the Herbs]

If you took the time to read my post correctly you would have noticed that I never wrote that Kilkenny played possession hurling. Apart from everyone knowing that. What I did write is that knowing how to cope with an opposition who play in a pattern that is difficult to counteract is something I would look for in a manager. There is no-one within the county who has that knowledge.

I found your post difficult to read but there are more similarities between the Kilkenny method and the Kilcormac-Killoughey method than you think.

You are also ignoring the fundamental differences between club hurling and inter-county hurling. There is no comparison. Period.

I never mentioned Dónal Óg Cusack. Anyway, due to logistics as much as anything else, he is not an option. Nor is anyone from Cork or Waterford.

I'm not sure about the role of the manager in creating a winning spirit. Yes, the manager can put the system in place, but the 'winning spirit' ultimately comes from within and is as a result of a number of factors. Offaly Camogie being a case in point, where the dedication and spirit are as a result of a number of factors involving players and management. Naturally the implementation of this 'winning spirit' comes easier in a winning team than it does to a losing one. It is a 'chicken and egg' situation.

The involvement of Danny Owens' management colleagues has been mentioned here and is worth noting. I'm not au fait with the roles of the two selectors but there is one thing I want to note. With about five minutes remaining in last month's semi-final with Clareen, during a break in play Ciarán Slevin approached the sideline from his half-forward position. He spoke to one of the selectors for about 10-15 seconds then moved back infield and took up a position in the half-back line. I note CS did not approach Danny Owens and DO was not consulted in this. I am assuming CS made the call himself to play as a 'sweeper' and cleared this with the selector. In any event K-K were awarded a close-in free about three minutes later, Slevin went up to take it and stayed in the half-forward line after this.

i have to diagree kilkenny never played possision hurling . the played with 6 back two midfielders deep and left lots of room up for the forwards not with big lads down the middle and defended the puck outs and launched for there . kk are not noy like that very simple style. how do u know that e brennan or d og cusack can create a winning spirit .both could have be great but the could be useless also d owen can create a team spirit if he is weak in any area put some along side who is strong at game plans. i never said owens was perfect but he has any strenghts

[Lone Shark]

It's fair to say that there is no single tactic that would be the holy grail to deliver us from obscurity, and nobody here feels that there is. But neither is it the case that there is some unwritten "Offaly way" of playing that the county team must mimic. Every club employs their own system, their own approach - who here would say that St Rynaghs, Seir Kieran, Coolderry and Drumcullen all hurl the same way? Of course not, every team picks their own style to suit the strengths of the players at their disposal, and that's what Offaly should do too.

However here's the thing - in Offaly, there has been no discernible tactic on a lot of occasions. There's been a lot of "just go out and hurl" but no particular method to how we look to control puckouts, how we try to create space close to goal, how we look to close down opposition danger men etc. I think every rational hurling person acknowledges by now that ground hurling as a tactic is dead, the rules of the modern game simply don't encourage it. However a lot of people like to say that Offaly play "direct hurling" - what the hell is that? Hit it as long and as hard as you can in the direction of the goal, as quickly as you can?

Neither is it the case that county teams elsewhere mimic the style of the clubs in that county. If you go to an average SHC match in Clare, you'll see each team play around 30-40 handpasses per game - the county team will play double that. In Clare club hurling, perhaps 10% of all points are scored from more than sixty yards out - that ratio is probably around 30% for the county team. However David Fitzgerald employed a system that suited the players that he had at his disposal, and we all saw he results. The players and supporters would like to see something similar in Offaly - not a possession game for the sake of it, or a tactic picked because either (a) that's how they hurl where the manager comes from, or (b) that's how Offaly used to hurl back in the day - but a tactic that looks at what we have and maximises our strengths and minimises weaknesses.

Kilcormac-Killoughey have a lot of really good hurlers, they've no obvious weak links, and DO has done a good job of picking a simple team to execute the basics well and then he gets out of their way. Their game plan is based on high workrate and faith in every players ability to win their own 50/50 ball. However anyone could see the difference in the way they play and the way Birr looked to work the ball up the field with strings of passes in the county final. KK's approach suited a team with a lot of big natural ball winners, Birr's approach suited a team with a lot more craft and guile, and a team that perhaps wanted to minimise the number or contested possessions. There is a lot of variation in modern hurling and there is ten times as much on the county scene. Whoever gets the job has to be able for that, and I would tend to agree with POTH that a player who has played at the highest level in the last few years would strike me as better equipped than a man who has done a good job at club level.