Ollie Baker

[Conrad]

Is Baker gone yet? You would think they would get in a new man sooner rather than later and let him see the lads play in the Offaly Club Championship. I think last year there was a few lads more worthy of a go in with the county judging on club championship, now is the time to be scouting. Offaly hurled one game again this year. No improvement. Bakers buns are cooked!? A tactically minded coach in touch with the modern game would be nice.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

eh no, and who are they?

"They" as you put it, have yet to be put together as a group in the event of Ollie being ousted. Meeting due to be held over next few weeks for evaluation, in fairness, I think this should be done within 2 weeks of exiting the championship, and ratify another year for the manager or let him know thanks but we need a change of direction.
Personally for the few cents its worth (Fargo take note!!), I think Ollie should go. But I dont have an alternative. Our hurlers in general should be hurling with more structure to the game, plus the number of lads who have not committed to the panel raises some questions. There were some positive signs there, but not enough, and some poor performances within games that had to be seen to be believed.
However, removing Ollie, without clear focus as to what we want to change in order to develop is futile, so hopefully, there is a bit of work going on in the background to identify potential options, and who we want to go after.

[summerindublin]

Agree, Ollie should go, we have the basis of a very good team, but we are still not fit, i'm not sure who could bring us on to the next step maybe 'Cody'.

[kinnittyman]

I'm all for consistency of management if there is an improvement in the team year on year. (See Eamonn Cregan's first 3 years in charge of Offaly) Getting rid of a manager just for the sake of it can often cause more problems than it is worth as there is the inevitable settling in period needed for both players and management following a change. For example if Ollie was to be given a 3rd year players would know what's expected of them and we should see both consistency of selection and in tactical set up as the year progresses.

However I am of the opinion that Ollie Baker has achieved as much as he is able of doing with this team. 5 championship games with one win ( A badly needed Leinster Championship win over Wexford) and 2 league campaigns in which we never looked like getting promotion if truth be told. Although Limerick and Dublin's exploits this Summer show that challenging in Division 1B was more difficult than first thought.

Some positives from Baker's tenure would be that win over Wexford, a good showing in Cork last year in the qualifiers, snatching a draw in Limerick last season in the league when we certainly didn't deserve it and a general improvement in the workrate of the forwards (the usual suspects excluded) with some genuine ball winners introduced to the forwards.

Unfortunately the negatives do outweigh the positives and alarmingly they often tend to be from a tactical / selection viewpoint. The two most glaringly obvious from this year's championship were during the Waterford game. With 8 minutes left in the first half having played reasonably well against the wind in a traditional 15 on 15, Baker placed Brian Carroll in a sweeping role in between the full back line and half back line and Waterford outscored Offaly 0-03 to 0-00 in this period and Brian Carroll to the best of my recollection did not gather one possession in this time. Now Brian Carroll has some attributes he brings to the Offaly team e.g popping over long distance points from his left hand side but he just doesn't have the required workrate for that role. Frequent viewers of Offaly will note that this wasn't the first time Baker that did with Carroll this year as he did it during the league game with Limerick in Tullamore with equally disastrous results. Also during the game Conor Mahon (who didn't start remember) was coming out on top in his battle with Brick Walsh and was negating Walsh's influence on the game. Any hurling person with any insight into the game will tell you the first thing to do when attempting to defeat Waterford is to stop Walsh from hurling and Mahon had done as upper job of this while chipping in with a point of his own. But for some reason unknown to most people at the game , Baker moved Mahon to midfield and Brian Carroll (after Carroll had scored 2 second half points from midfield) to centre forward and both players subsequently struggled, with Brick Walsh powering into the game putting Waterford on the front foot for the last 15 minutes. This change cost Offaly any chance of winning the game.

Such tactical naivety was also seen in the Leinster Semi Final against Galway in Portlaoise in 2011. Our defenders were obviously given a man marking role on a specific Galway forward in that game. Resultantly the Offaly defenders followed their men everywhere and the amount of space between the Offaly half back line and full back line was criminal and the result was Galway scoring 5-23. The same tactic was employed against Clare in the second half of the league game in Tullamore in 2011 and at one stage I noticed only 3 players in the Offaly half of the field. David Kenny, James Dempsey and one Clare forward. Talk about being a sucker for a counter attack. Granted we were chasing the game but we did have a man advantage.

This Offaly team doesn’t have too much longer left to make a genuine impression on the Championship. Rory Hanniffy must be considering his inter-county future and we certainly don’t have any hurlers in the class of Rory coming up through the underage ranks. In fact outside of Stephen Quirke, Pat Camon and possibly Seán Gardiner things look bare. For the likes of Rory I would hope the County Board thank Ollie Baker for his genuine hard work but tell him it’s in Offaly’s best interests if they look elsewhere. A phone call to Liam Sheedy might not be a bad idea considering how complimentary he was to Offaly on The Sunday Game and if he says no due to work commitments or whatever how about Donal Óg Cusack? I would presume he would be mad to cut his managerial inter-county cloth. He certainly would bring a modern, professional set up to the table.

[first_touch]

A phone call to Liam Sheedy might not be a bad idea considering how complimentary he was to Offaly on The Sunday Game and if he says no due to work commitments or whatever how about Donal Óg Cusack? I would presume he would be mad to cut his managerial inter-county cloth. He certainly would bring a modern, professional set up to the table.

I was thinking exactly the same as Sheedy made those comments on the Sunday Game. We desperately need someone with his tactical acumen and knowledge of the game. Donal Og might also be a good bet though as far as I know he has no management experience. He'd certainly bring a fresh approach.

[kinnittyman]

Donal Og would have no inter-county management experience but I'm fairly sure he has been coach of Cloyne in the recent past. And other posts we might not have heard of up here. We're a long way from the Cork club scene in Offaly.

Ideally I would like to see him gain some underage inter-county experience with Cork but as he was seen as one of the key figures in the players going on strike I'd be of the belief he has burned his bridges with the Cork County Board.

[backofthenet]

I think there is generally a lack of appetite from a lot of people involved. The county board have been making sub par appointments for about 15 years at senior and underage level. This has led to bad results which has led to a lack of interest from players which has led to worse results.

To change the situation we need to appoint a manager that is widely respected outside of the county someone like John Allen would have sprung to mind before he joined limerick but Gerald McCarthy would be another good option. Someone who has been with a top tier team if at all possible. This should convince the current players to "buy in" to what the manager is trying to achieve.

Secondly this needs to be backed up with solid appointments to the underage management teams, probably a harder thing to achieve but it needs to be addressed badly. We could possibly look to the people involved in the Westmeath & Laois underage set ups for options.

Thirdly there needs to be a hard line taken on discipline, if a player fails to put in the effort it has a knock on effect on morale and their status in the team / panel should not be taken into account. You may remember this happened in Donegal a few years ago when they dropped a player for breaking the rules. At the time there was serious criticism of the management team when he was dropped, however a few years later they won the all Ireland. Little things like that matter.

Fourthly the county board have for a number of years left big gaps between rounds of the senior championship in order to allow the county team prepare properly. This has if anything been to the detriment of the county team and I think there needs to be rounds of the championship in between the county games to keep players fresh and ready. Games increase a players touch and tempermeant for a big game far more than any training ever will.

Fifth tactics - At least an attempt at them would be a vast jump forward.

Sixth - get really basic skills improved. Have at least 1 player capable of cutting the ball over the bar should the opportunity arises, this could be worth 2-3 points a game and all it takes is practice practice practice. Improve the distribution skills of both midfield and half backline - it was clear that Dublin & Waterford put serious effort into the area this year and again it has been of serious benefit.

Lastly don't be afraid to re evaluate the squad,there are a number of players in the 25-28 bracket that never got a run at senior inter county level yet they regularly mark and make our current county players look pretty ordinary. I don't know if the county selectors are looking at the same games but there is a tendency to focus too much on a players contribution to the scoreboard rather than other attributes such as ability to win dirty ball, work rate and most importantly the ability to pick out the right pass. The closest we have is Conor Mahon in this department but he lacks a bit of accuracy and quite often chooses the wrong option. A player like him can be a serious contributor to a team but the team and him must know his job inside out. A number of times when Conor Mahon gained possession there were no runners offering options. This shows a lack of preparation reminds of the phrase "spread out in a heap!!"

[Toxicity234]

I think there is generally a lack of appetite from a lot of people involved. The county board have been making sub par appointments for about 15 years at senior and underage level. This has led to bad results which has led to a lack of interest from players which has led to worse results.
To change the situation we need to appoint a manager that is widely respected outside of the county someone like John Allen would have sprung to mind before he joined limerick but Gerald McCarthy would be another good option. Someone who has been with a top tier team if at all possible. This should convince the current players to "buy in" to what the manager is trying to achieve.

The likes of Donal O'Grady or Liam Sheedy would be dream appointments but it would take them time for them to assess the players within the county. Ken Hogan has done a great job with the Tipp u21 and Coolderry. Danny Owens did a great job taking Kilcormac/Killoughey from a team of individual or Leinster Champions. Dinny Cahill i think is a great coach but I'm not 100% sure he is a great tactician.

I think the selectors on the Offaly Management team are underestimated in there important to the management team. Two or three good selectors are very important. They can keep the players happy but they can also keep the manager in check.
I know this is a mad idea but maybe there a case for having 4 selectors in the Offaly Senior Management team. With the Manager on the U-21 and Minor mangers being selectors on the Senior team, with the Manager appointing 2 selector of his own.
I think this is a good idea because over the last 4 years we have had Stephen Byrne, John Leahy and Aidan Hanrahan have all had Mangement position in Offaly. Now nothing against these lads but they are very young and inexperience managers.
They all have the making to be excellent manager in the future but watching them manage Offaly over the last few years they a long way for being ready to manage Offaly team at any level. spending time working under an experience manager could bring them on as well.

personally i love to see Liam Sheedy manage us. Ger Coughlan(while i dont agree with some of his management style, he did an ok job this year) staying on as U21 manager and as a Senior Selector and Dinny Cahill Minor manager and Senior Selector. if we did this we might get all county team in Offaly moving in the same direction.

Thirdly there needs to be a hard line taken on discipline, if a player fails to put in the effort it has a knock on effect on morale and their status in the team / panel should not be taken into account. You may remember this happened in Donegal a few years ago when they dropped a player for breaking the rules. At the time there was serious criticism of the management team when he was dropped, however a few years later they won the all Ireland. Little things like that matter.

I don't think Discipline is a problem within Offaly hurling. I think players have being in training being seen that we going nowhere and leaving. That not a discipline problem it a motivation problem. If players see an improvement in management discipline will not be a major problem. We have seen this with Kilcormac Killoughey this year. When players got a smell of improvement they knuckle down and discipline stopped being an issue.

Fourthly the county board have for a number of years left big gaps between rounds of the senior championship in order to allow the county team prepare properly. This has if anything been to the detriment of the county team and I think there needs to be rounds of the championship in between the county games to keep players fresh and ready. Games increase a players touch and tempermeant for a big game far more than any training ever will.

This is a very hard issue to fix. the only way i can think to address is issue would be to have league part of the senior championship as home and away games every second weekend from the 1st week in may. with the county senior and u21 managers picking the weekend he allows the squads players to play club hurling. If the county managers doesn't release the players the games should be player without them. This will give club players outside the county panel 10 games to improve through the months of May June, July and August. Knock out Club Championship can't be played without county hurlers. bottom two from each group play in the regulation playoff. 4 in group A plays 5 in group B and vise versa for quarter final place.

Fifth tactics - At least an attempt at them would be a vast jump forward.

Amen to that. Funny, watching Offaly club teams two week ago. it made me laugh to think that all the team i saw have a game plan and the county team management didn't. Only this could happen in Offaly.

Lastly don't be afraid to re evaluate the squad,there are a number of players in the 25-28 bracket that never got a run at senior inter county level yet they regularly mark and make our current county players look pretty ordinary. I don't know if the county selectors are looking at the same games but there is a tendency to focus too much on a players contribution to the scoreboard rather than other attributes such as ability to win dirty ball, work rate and most importantly the ability to pick out the right pass. The closest we have is Conor Mahon in this department but he lacks a bit of accuracy and quite often chooses the wrong option. A player like him can be a serious contributor to a team but the team and him must know his job inside out. A number of times when Conor Mahon gained possession there were no runners offering options. This shows a lack of preparation reminds of the phrase "spread out in a heap!!"

This is very true. last year to me Kilcormac Killoughey hurler of the year was Kilmartin. a man mountain in midfield. but look at last year u21 county championship. i thought that Damien Egan at centre forward was a player that should have being look at. i saw him playing for belmont last week at centre back and he still look like a player that can make the grade but it a year later and a year wasted in county term for him.


whoever takes over from the mess that was Ollie Baker Management team will have a very good set of players from the offaly club pool to work with. I hope whoever it is will have experience of managing a successful team. Will have intelligence in picking the staff around him and setting up and working to get the best out of the players. and have the charm and wit to have the players and media like, respect and fear him all at the same time. Not ask for much, am i?

[Lone Shark]

Like any Offaly supporter, I'd be delighted to see us make a good catch in terms of a manager, if and when the incumbent leaves the position. However I would advise some caution here in the sense that we are simply not an attractive proposition at the moment. We've just come through a season where things have got no better and no worse. We held our own in the league, every game was decided by four points or less, we had one middling to good outing against KK, three quarters of a good game against Waterford and then we collapsed, for both on and off the field reasons - and as supporters, we're not happy, and Ollie Baker's reputation as a manager has not been enhanced. Whether it's been damaged or not is a matter of opinion, but clearly there is a lot of downside there from the point of view of an outsider looking at the job.

An outsider looking in wants to feel that the ingredients are there for success - and they're not looking at quietly effective club hurlers in their mid twenties. They want to see underage success and quite simply, we've been a disaster zone in that time for what feels like forever. Neither is it the case that we've had a few big performances to prove our worth and underachieved the rest of the time - we've actually been quite consistent and predictable. It's hard to argue with the view that our recent performances accurately reflect the ability of the team - there isn't a lot of improvement to be milked, at least not obviously.

Yes this year's under-21s were decent, if unspectacular, but look what Wexford did to Kilkenny after we fell short against them in Tullamore. Most neutral managers would jump at the Wexford job before the Offaly one, and if we think we have it bad in Ollie, I'd take him ten times over before I'd hire Liam Dunne.

To take the example of Donal Óg, a man who has played the sport at the highest level and clearly thinks about it what he's doing and would be quite astute tactically - we're asking him to travel half the length of the country three or four times a week, and whatever is offered to him will be no more and probably less than he'd get for taking on a couple of club jobs closer to home, when the actual cost and time value of travelling is allowed for. We're doing that on the basis that any less than real improvement and he'll have a stigma over his career before he starts, while there is no outwardly obvious evidence that the raw materials are there to secure that improvement. It just isn't attractive.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Donal Og? Come on, we need a man with experience. Fianancially would cost us a fortune. And we cant take a risk now on a complete novice!
We need an option closer to home and a decent back room team with the training expertise.

[Abercrombie Fitch]

Eddie Brennan wants the job. A man who battled under Cody for so long. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

[signinlate]

Eddie Brennan wants the job. A man who battled under Cody for so long. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

The job must be more attractive than some people think.

[Bord na Mona man]

Any chance he'd be a player manager? His retirement is the biggest reason Kilkenny forward line can no longer hurt teams.

[Abercrombie Fitch]

I've heard that from a Kilkenny man a fortnight ago who'd be in the know hurling wise and a Killeigh man who golfed with him this week. No experience I accept but it'd be a great appointment in my eyes. Which means it'll never happen.

[Killeighman]

Would this man be Matt Doyle by any chance?