SFC Qualifier Draw - Offaly vs Tyrone

[Lone Shark]

would also agree with lone shark,offaly were brutal except two or three players.bringing in the hurlers and an a few others might not have been the best idea.if u were a sub and trained since last november and see someone that only trained two weeks and get on instead of u then next november u probably wont turn up.

That was my point re all in together though. The jury is out as to whether or not McDonnell did the right thing here - most people are now saying he didn't, though with hindsight, it's easy to say that.

However when Babs Keating came out after the 1998 Leinster final and blamed the players, he was rightly rounded upon. When you go in to manage a team, it's all in together. There's no "I", "he", "they" or anything like that - there is only "we". Everything is collective. You win together, you lose together, players and management as one. That's why I made the point that if another player made a mistake on a team I was playing for, I'd like to think I wouldn't round on him, I'd dig in and try and secure a turnover or something to undo the mistake, just as I'd expect him to do for me. It should be the same approach with the manager. If he picks what a player perceives to be the wrong team, or the wrong 26, then the player has to still be strong enough to muck in and do his best for the cause. Not be selfish and throw the toys out of the pram.

I'm hearing a lot this week that suggests that the players didn't do that and this upsets me, to compound the upset of watching the game. Any players who did this put themselves first and Offaly second.

[brownie]

well im glad im not going mad and good to see that I wasn't the only one disgusted with everything that happened in ocp last Saturday.
one thing that sticks out for me and was never commented on is that the 2 mcdonnells seem to be running the show minus input from p mollen their partner in management plus no contact from anyone in the stand or terrace.ive been involved in management myself at different levels and input from a better vantage point other than pitch level was always helpful.if this doesn't work ,why do all the top managers in both codes use this to sort out on the field problems.i believe there is a 3rd McDonnell that manages durrow footballers and that is a 1 man show also.he is supposed to be on his 3rd management team in 6 months.if we have a family that are trying to make a name for themselves ,we have a huge problem to over come.Offaly football needs to come first.

[DAF]

Tyrone 0-12 Roscommon 1-7

Makes Offalys performance last week look even worse than I thought it was

[bracknaghboy]

Tyrone 0-12 Roscommon 1-7

Makes Offalys performance last week look even worse than I thought it was

That result doesn't surprise me. There isn't a county team in Ireland that would have allowed Tyrone to go to their home ground and humiliate them by 22 points or anything like it. Except that useless shower that we paid in to watch last week. Most of our fellas are happy to be on the panel so they can use a picture of themselves in the jersey on their twitter pages and the like, however when it comes to even making a half hearted attempt for a dirty ball during a match they don't want to know about it. Last week was always going to be tough and most ball was "dirty ball" and true to form the vast majority opted to hide.

[blue biffo]

Tyrone 0-12 Roscommon 1-7

Makes Offalys performance last week look even worse than I thought it was

Word on the street is Roscommon had a plan and even had a plan B if things were not working,wonder were did we go wrong.

[Bord na Mona man]

Tyrone 0-12 Roscommon 1-7

Makes Offalys performance last week look even worse than I thought it was

I doubt many Roscommon players were jogging instead of running during the game.

[townman]

but we won't keep it kicked out to Roscommon either.

[Bord na Mona man]

but we won't keep it kicked out to Roscommon either.

Because Roscommon are one of the footballing elites of course!

[Plain of the Herbs]

Alot of Offaly's heavy defeats occurring at the same home venue.

Ever think of playing the home matches elsewhere?

[Fargo Boyle]

I would be in favour of moving matches away from Tullamore. We need to think outside of the box on this one. I often thought that playing the county matches on the steepest slopes of Croghan hill might be the best alternative. At least we would have one good half on the down slope.
It could also provide a much needed boost to the flagging Croghan tourist industry, which took a major hit recently when links between the area and Duane "Dog" Chapman aka Dog the Bounty Hunter were completely discredited. Imagine pictures of Croghan hill transmitted around the world, with panoramas of the area took from a helipcopter a la the Tour de France. I'm off to buy shares in Croghan stores

[Lone Shark]

If we turned out against Roscommon with the same attitude as we showed against Tyrone, of course we'd be beaten out the gate. God knows if we showed up against London with that attitude we'd be well beaten. However I was in Dr Hyde Park on Saturday evening and it was immensely frustrating because Roscommon did nothing that we couldn't have done, and they probably should have won the match. Their persistent faith in Donie Shine who was lazy as sin and utterly ineffective probably cost them the tie.

Darrren McCurry looked very ordinary, largely because Seanie McDermott - admittedly an excellent man marker - was right on his shoulder all day and never gave him an inch. McCurry was collecting passes in ten yards of space in O'Connor Park. When Roscommon dropped men back, they did so with purpose, and every man still defended as if he was the last man. Offaly seem to interpret blanket defences differently - we seem to think that it involves getting twelve men behind the ball so that if Sky Sports were to analyse the game, we'd have plenty of green dots on the first in the animated diagram of the field. Then several of those twelve guys stand in those locations, filling space and half heartedly waving at nearby runners instead of tackling them, with predictable results.

Man for man, we're at least as good as that Roscommon team. Cathal Cregg is a fierce hard working half forward with good all round ability and we don't seem to be able to produce that type of player, while Karol Mannion offered great physical presence at midfield, again an aspect we seem to lack. However there is no other sector where they'd have anything that would improve on our group, measured as individuals. Why they were able to produce such a better collective effort is something that will continue to haunt me for another while yet.

[Bord na Mona man]

The Roscommon result is both a kick in the arse and a source of hope for Offaly.

Firstly, the lazy notion that Offaly are 20 points worse off than Div 1 teams is exposed as nonsense. It's an excuse not to bother and a great cover up for failure. Just like our annual complaint that Kildare are X years ahead of us in conditioning work. Where X = Current Year - 2008. Aside: Once this hits double figures do we still keep quoting it?

Secondly, it shows what can be done serious effort and the right attitude. All evidence suggests Roscommon are marginally better * than Offaly.
So Offaly should have been able to make a much better fist of it against Tyrone, despite being down a few players.

--
* Just to head off the 'Offaly would be in Division 5 if there was one', 'Kilkenny would bate Offaly', 'Roscommon are a million miles better than us' merchants before the topic gets dragged into inanity. The settled order of the teams is Roscommon being a mid Division 3 team, possibly pushing for promotion. Offaly a Division 3 team typically fighting off relegation. On the county rankings, there isn't a huge gap. Recent head-to-head league results don't reveal any gulf either.

[brownie]

only difference between Roscommon and Offaly is that Roscommon tried to beat Tyrone.

[manfromdelmonte]

where to start...

1 Roscommon have pedigree over the last 7/8 years - minor all ireland in 2006 and semi final appearance. going for three in a row with minor in connacht this year
2 they have pedigree in under 21. got to AI final last year, should have beaten Galway (eventual winners) in the Connacht final this year
3 AI club win. Brigids have been in the top 4/5 club teams of the last 5 years.
4 Third Level - look at any successful third level college - DCU, UCC they will invariably have a Roscommon player or two, with more of them being offered scholarships. Do Offaly players feature? Nope

just sayin'

[Lone Shark]

(1) Some of those Roscommon minor teams were quite good - others benefitted from getting a head start in a handy province. This year all they've done is beat a very poor Sligo team, and they're in the last eight of the all Ireland - Offaly never really had that advantage. Yes their underage teams have been marginally better, but not hugely so.
(2) I was at that Connacht under-21 final and I would have said that Galway were the better team myself, not sure where you're getting the "should have won" bit. A lot of Rossies think that all right, but they usually think that. Anyway, I wouldn't disagree that they have better players aged 20-24. However that has to be counterbalanced by the fact that they have very few standout players over and above that. That Roscommon might have slightly better footballers coming down the line is a position you could legitimately hold, however that's not the same as saying that their senior team is better equipped right now.
(3) Yes, St Brigids have an outstanding club team - I know them very well, due to where I live now. And St Brigids had two starters on the Roscommon team last week, Ian Kilbride and Karol Mannion. Mannion is a solid, dependable and very clever midfielder, but Kilbride wouldn't be nailed on to start in the Offaly side at all. St Brigids have done so well because even their weakest four or five guys are very good - they have a level of depth that clubs in Offaly couldn't imagine. They pick from a population of around 5000 people, with no meaningful soccer, rugby or hurling in the area. However ask any Rossie from Lecarrow up or west of Brideswell and they'd all say the same - Brigids don't contribute nearly enough to the county team at senior level, considering their level of achievement at the club grade.
(4) Again, this statistic goes back to the fact that out of the current Roscommon vs Offaly teams, where most of their best players are aged 20-24. Most of our best players are well out of college and at that critical vintage, we have a few key players not playing Sigerson for valid reasons such as starting a military career. That's a good sign for the future for them and a worry for us, but again it's not a reason to believe that our current senior team couldn't match up well with theirs at the moment.