under 21

[the veteran]

just back from match concession of 3 horror goals too hard to overcome . improved in 2nd half when d went man on man .cunningham was outstanding same as senior no reliable free taker cost us vital scores .

[High School Musical]

Worst display of refereeing since Martin Sludden made a 2 minute cameo appearance in Croke Park in 2010. Shocking stuff. Good spirited display from Offaly though, especially in the 2nd half

[ryot]

Yea the goals were the killer but the third after they had they had worked their way back into the game was the real problem. The 4 wides in quick suscession inluding 2 frees were a massive blow. Even after that they kept the head and got a few great scores. The last goal was a minute late as there just wan no time to get the equalizer that I felt the lads deserved.

The sweeper was no help as the player did not look comfortable in the role. Noticeable that Laois were able to use quick easy kick-outs to a spare defender in the first half while we, even with an extra defender, could not until the second half when we were only using 6 defenders.

Not impressed by Mr Cawley. Felt he & umpire on the scorebard side were so interested in booking E Rigney that they failed to watch the ball go wide on that side & gave a point. Laois got lots of handy frees whereas we did not & a blantant jersey pulling on Peter took him out off a move which left a player surrounded on the sideline and blocked. To compound the lineball was given to Laois after going out off a Laois player and with the Offaly players moving into attack they were caught by the wrong decision and Laois got a cheap point.


I'm dissapointed but there were some good displays, especially Peter & Aaron

[kingscounty]

Dublin 4-27 Carlow 0-02 !!! Maybe we are better off outa it now, Tony Mcs idea doesnt sound all that crazy when you see a score line like this,

[suckindiesel]

the ref did not beat ye, ye lost because of stupid 1st half tactics, and the fact that you had a dreadful goalie and full back line who simply were brutal under the high ball.

laois perspective. little expected, the sole laois senior player on the team was out injured.

conditions were perfect, dry windless evening, pitch in good nick.

laois played a convention 15, offaly choose to play a skinny chap (15) as an extra defender in the hole, and it backfired, sole contribution i saw him make was to kick a quick free direct to a laois player. he was withdrawn at the break and offaly then went conventional, but facing a 5 point deficit, the damage was already done.

both defences were suspect, laois were in deep trouble when offaly attacked at pace. offaly did not have one half decent defender. a 17yr old kid for laois creamed ye in the air in the first half and scored 2 goals.

overall, laois won the midfield battle. laois started to tire in the final quarter and ye were pegging us back, especially after the converted penalty, then your goalie killed you again, as he failed to deal with a bread and butter high ball, and the 3rd goal was the clincher.

2 uninspiring sides, together we would not bother dublin, and overall the standard was poor. the ref gave soft frees, for both sides.

i cant see too many future laois senior players from this group.

as i had no program and did not know any of the offaly players, i can say that i would be shocked if any player 1-10 was a senior panelist, not one leader amongst your backs.
your number 11 was the best player on the pitch, scored from play with both feet, easily get on any county u21 team in the country, i assume he is a senior player. the other offaly player who impressed was the 12, who clocked up 2 good points in the first half. he was on a very weak link on the laois side and i was surprised this area was not exploited to greater effect.

2 closely matched teams, distinct lack of quality, i am afraid to say.

[Lone Shark]

I'm absolutely furious after that one, genuinely spitting blood after a win and a potential run of a couple of games was left behind. There are so many little things that could have been done to turn that defeat into a win, any one of three or four things could have changed the game. The really disappointing part is that so many of these issues were predictable. This wasn't a case of players letting us down, this was all the obvious weak links on paper coming through.

(1) Yes, the referee was a factor, and suckindiesel, you can say he didn't beat us, but the simple facts are that (1) forwards and packs were pulling at each other off the ball all night. After he gave the first free for this, I kept an eye on it and it was constant, at both ends, as it is in most football games. Laois were given four frees from eighty yards away, Offaly were given one. I don't know if the controversial one was wide or a point, I was in the stand and at an angle I couldn't see, but one of the players I texted after insists it was wide. Ryot's point about the umpire not watching the ball because he wanted to give the booking stands. The line ball was a farce, which was worth another point, and I don't know if the referee knows Gavin Brody or not, but how many times do you whistle and wave at the keeper for killing time on the kickouts? I counted him doing it four times at least. Once - fine. Twice, pushing it. Occasions three and four should have been throw balls on the 20m line.

(2) I really like Eoin Carroll as a player and I'd have started him in this team without question, but his ability to pull off spectacular catches, sometimes against taller men, does not a consistent fielder make. His style of jumping is such that he's coming in from an angle and while it looks glorious when it works, when it doesn't, he's now the wrong side of the ball and Laois are breaking fast. I'd say he probably lost more kickouts than he won too. Conor McNamee is a good all round footballer but he's not a fielder. And lo and behold, when Offaly didn't pick a standard midfielder and yet chose to send orthodox kickouts straight down the middle, possession was lost most of the time. I'd say if it's analysed, the seven points we scored in the first have must have been done off about eight or nine offensive possessions.

I had been told that we got cleaned at midfield in most of the challenge games that were played, but I only saw one, (where it certainly happened - vs Leitrim) so I don't know if that's true or not.

(3) 99% of Offaly supporters would have said that Declan Hogan and Stephen Hannon would be leaders on this team, and certainly I'd have huge time for them. These are two lads who are up to the age, who are playing central roles for strong clubs, and who both were very good last year at this grade. Both men were picked in roles that were unfamiliar for them. In neither case did it work - but by taking them straight off, you then rob the team of the option to use proven, good players in a different role. Either man would have been a useful addition in the half forward line, where Stuart Cullen's man was doing a world of damage charging forward and Cullen was either unable or unwilling to track him. In Hannon's case I was disappointed with his performance and the contrast between what he managed to do as a spare man and the Laois player who was performing the same role, was harsh. In that vein though, I'd wonder how much time was spent teaching him how to play here? I'm sick to the back teeth of watching Offaly players play a "free" role, which ends up as standing in no man's land 40m from goal, watching long balls going over their head but not winning breaks at midfield either.

(4) If a player is doubtful due to injury, I hate this logic of springing him off the bench to save the game. Logically, if it turns out that the player was fit to play, then you've just cost yourself his presence on the field for the first 40-50 minutes of the game, while if it turns out that he's not, you may end up having to use two substitutions. And when frees cost you the game and Joe Maher is sitting on the bench, you have to say that this was one more decision that could have turned the game if the correct one was made.

(5) I hate picking on individual players - I really do. But sometimes, you have to look back at the old yarn about a guy going back into his workplace on Monday morning after a disaster of a championship game, only to get the support of his colleagues, in the form of "it's not your fault, it's the clueless bollixes that picked ya".

Two years ago I was helping out with the Offaly minor set up as a scout and with stats, simple stuff. In the search for a sub keeper, we came across Mark Langtry and what I was told was that he was a great shot stopper, decent kickout, but you'd have to work on his play under a high ball. I watched him play and sure enough I saw one great save, some incredibly sharp positional play and reflexes in a one on one situation, but also the concession of a goal straight through his hands from a high ball. I watched the senior trials in Ferbane this year and was told by someone from his club that the same thing still applied - and sure enough, he conceded a shocking goal from a high ball in.

That's not to say that he won't be a great senior keeper some day, but this is a problem and it needs to be addressed. Picking him for a game like this and hoping he won't have to deal with any balls over his head is ridiculous, and it was just one more reason why this was a game we left behind.

(6) Finally, what's home advantage worth? A point? I hope the Offaly county board extracted some good concessions for allowing this game to be moved, because if not, the decision to play in Portlaoise without a whimper was very expensive. If Gracefield wasn't good enough, we could have taken temporary measures and made it all ticket. We could have agreed to play it in Athlone. Or f***ing Ballyhaunis. But don't help out your opponents and get nothing for it. We gave home advantage, they got a home town ref, and we lost by a point. Neither team was going to beat Kildare in the Leinster semi, but it would have been nice to get the chance instead of them.

[the veteran]

8 of this team got to semis last year and 5 now on senior team .laois had no seniors playing but still won ' this looks bad for offay dis year . does anyone think like me pascal keel shud have still been in charge .he had 8 of last year starters who new his ways and cud have improved if d worked wit him more .did mc donnell demand both jobs or did pascal not go it ?

[offaly2012]

8 of this team got to semis last year and 5 now on senior team .laois had no seniors playing but still won ' this looks bad for offay dis year . does anyone think like me pascal keel shud have still been in charge .he had 8 of last year starters who new his ways and cud have improved if d worked wit him more .did mc donnell demand both jobs or did pascal not go it ?

Veteran Here is the hard facts about the situation

Paschal did go for the job again and was let down by county board and Pat Teehan fucked up as chairman. I know paschal and I know Mcdonnell. My own Personal taughts on it and my worry the whole time after Mcdonnell got the job was how much preparation would go into the U,21s as there was so much emphases on the seniors . You have to start some where and you have to have an interest in the U,21s . A person left the management a while ago to my knowledge on the preparation of the u21s . Paschal was on Midlands 103 lastnight very dissapointed with the loss but good team spirtited performance. But he would have to been thinking about what if. To me Bad start with a good team

[llkj]

I listened to the match on the radio and it seemed that Declan Hogan was taken off due to the fact that he had picked up a yellow and got a ticking in quick succession. In the modern game, one more personal foul and it would have been Offaly down to 14 men. There is definitely merit in the argument to move him out the field, but still that would have meant reshuffling other players and you are still taking a huge risk that you'll be a man down.
I would say the decision on the night, sounded like the logical one. I would however, question, the decision to name him in the full back line in the first place.

Offaly's dismal record at U21 continues. I say you could count on the fingers of one hand the amount of victories that Offaly have had in the last 15 years at this grade. I did read some criticisms on this board and elsewhere regarding the preperations of the team in advance, and it would appear from last night that these were founded. It is difficult managing a county senior team, a country Under 21 team and a Colleges team all at the same time. Perhaps something had to give and the U21s seems to have been it. Is that he's fault or the CB for putting him in that position (even if he requested all 3 jobs)?

[Lone Shark]

I listened to the match on the radio and it seemed that Declan Hogan was taken off due to the fact that he had picked up a yellow and got a ticking in quick succession. In the modern game, one more personal foul and it would have been Offaly down to 14 men. There is definitely merit in the argument to move him out the field, but still that would have meant reshuffling other players and you are still taking a huge risk that you'll be a man down.
I would say the decision on the night, sounded like the logical one. I would however, question, the decision to name him in the full back line in the first place.

I knew he had been booked, I didn't pick up on the ticking as well. That obviously changes things and in the modern game, a red card is just too crucial - though there were some very cheap yellow cards last night so my sympathy would have to go with the players on both teams.

However I would have thought that Hogan was too good a player to waste him like that. Corner back is a specialist position, more so than any other role on the field, and it takes a special kind of player to fulfil that role. I would have much preferred to see O'Connor or Lowry playing there and let Hogan go out the field.

Offaly's dismal record at U21 continues. I say you could count on the fingers of one hand the amount of victories that Offaly have had in the last 15 years at this grade. I did read some criticisms on this board and elsewhere regarding the preperations of the team in advance, and it would appear from last night that these were founded. It is difficult managing a county senior team, a country Under 21 team and a Colleges team all at the same time. Perhaps something had to give and the U21s seems to have been it. Is that he's fault or the CB for putting him in that position (even if he requested all 3 jobs)?

If you look back on the All Ireland winners at this grade, cases of double jobbing managers are very rare. I think Forde did it with Galway, though I'm not sure. After that it just doesn't happen.

[Pot Noodle]

Peter Ford did it with Galway in 2005 alright, but an under-21 side with Michael Meehan at the peak of his powers and Sean Armstrong and other decent prospects thrown in will always sail out of Connacht, and then you're only two games away from the summit.
John O'Mahony also did it with Galway in 2002 and Tommy Lyons with Dublin the following year but, crucially, the under-21 championship ran alongside the senior back then and both counties made relatively early exits at senior level in both those years.
John Evans also did well when managing both Tipp teams but generally these are exceptions rather than the rule.
The under-21 grade has become far too important, and particularly for Offaly, to be put on the long finger with an 'ah sure it'll do' attitude by senior management. I wouldn't swear that was the case in this instance but based on what I saw in Portlaoise coupled with anecdotal evidence, I think it's safe to assume that it didn't get the type of thought, attention and preparation as would have been the case with an exclusive under-21 management team, such as last year's. A good man who is probably the most sought after up and coming manager in the midlands, if not beyond, was treated very poorly and I hope those responsible for that are now reflecting on their latest ill-advised decision to have spectacularly backfired. God knows it wasn't the first, I just hope it's the last.

[ryot]

I don't know what tactical preparation was done but the team had plenty of training sessions & games and as far as I'm aware the Manager asked to do both Senior & U21 so targeting Teehan seems misguded.

As for Paschal, did he not already have a Manager position with a Kildare club so he was hardly in a position to give it his undivided attention ???

[Pot Noodle]

I believe he did ask for both and while I acknowledge that it's hard to rebuff the senior manager when he wants both roles, it doesn't necessarily make giving him both the right course of action. The biggest gripe I would have is the way the matter was handled, showing a complete lack of respect for Paschal. You couldn't make it up.
Paschal was in charge of Monasterevan this time last year and there is no question in the world that the under-21 job wasn't his priority. No comparison between double jobbing with a club team at this time of year to a senior inter-county side.

[the veteran]

does paschal have enemies within the county board ? what process is used to pick inter county managers who decides ? at the start of d year i would have chosen an experienced manager for d senior team ie jason ryan . paschal u21 manager for reasons already stated .mcdonell for minor manager as that was his niche .so if the were going young and inexpierenced how wud mcdonell get it ahead of paschal

[boomcha]

Yes, McDonnell requested both teams and rightly so as it gives him the best opportunity to be successful, mainly with the Seniors(as it transpired), as he is not sharing players with the u-21 manager and can see all the players as much as possible.

Kelleghan is a successful manager, but so is McDonnell and hopefully the county as a whole will continue to progress under his leadership.