McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

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McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by Lone Shark »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic- ... 64708.html

COLM KEYS – 12 FEBRUARY 2013

Laois and Offaly would be better off amalgamating for inter-county purposes, according to Offaly place-kicking legend Tony McTague.

McTague, considered one of the greatest free-takers ever, was inducted into the GAA's new Hall of Fame theatre in Croke Park yesterday and took the opportunity to reflect on how Offaly may never again be able to reach the altitude they achieved in 1971, '72 and '82.

He feels that with the stronger GAA counties getting even stronger, amalgamations should be on the agenda.

McTague accepts that his view will be seen as "heresy", but he argues his case emphatically.

"The idea of weak counties ever appearing again on the big stage, is over. I think that weaker counties should be given an option, even though some might not take it up, of amalgamating with a county that borders them, to have a realistic chance of taking on the big guys.

"All counties have their pride but they should have the option to amalgamate because it's unequal now, and it doesn't make sense.

"Laois and Offaly are, politically, the one constituency. I'm sure a lot of people might think, 'what's that fella talking about? Is he drunk?' Obviously, Offaly have been successful to some extent, but I don't see anything wrong with it. I know I'll be shot down by 99.9pc, however."

McTague believes that the introduction of the qualifiers has militated against the smaller counties over the last decade.

"The back-door system was brought in to have All-Ireland quarter-finals and semi-finals. Now weak counties are beaten twice in one year and the strong counties get two chances," he said.

He recalled how eight of Offaly's 1971 All-Ireland winning team had won a minor title seven years earlier and such a high level of graduation from that team was imperative for a county with their population.

McTague is also in favour of implementing the mark from a kick-out caught between the two '45s' as proposed by the Football Review Committee and on the programme for Congress next month.

"I think the idea of marking the ball between the '45s' would be a good rule. Good kicking is obviously important, but good fielding is number one," he said.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Offaly should invade Leix, not amalgamate with it!

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by Lone Shark »

Just to follow on from this point, my gut feeling is that this is not a good idea at all and that it would be very detrimental. However Tony has hit on a real problem here and while I don't agree with his solution, it's getting harder and harder to imagine a situation where a small county is able to compete with the more well-resourced teams out there.

For those who don't know Tony well, he is a neighbour of mine and he does follow the game closely and is still very involved. He'd be someone who I'd take very seriously and in particularly, stories like this illustrate the problem: http://www.hoganstand.com/Dublin/Articl ... ?ID=185254

Historically, a small county like Offaly never wasted any resources. Whether you played senior, intermediate or junior, you were watched, you were known and if you had the potential to be a good county player, there was no way you slipped under the radar. In contrast, in the wilds of west Cork or in the unfashionable clubs of Dublin, it was very easy to get missed. If you lived more than fifteen miles from Tuam you could easily get missed in Galway and even in Meath, there were large tracts of the county that were always unrepresented. Clubs played one game and you're out in the championship which meant that if you were at a weak club, you probablydidn't train for long stretches of the year. Kerry was the one exception with their divisional system, and as we all know, Kerry have a pretty good record.

Except now is different - every team has their best players on the field, and Dublin have hundreds of potential county players to pick from - and they know them all. What's more, the basic standard of fitness and preparation is so high and tactics are so astute that little differences can have a big effect on the scoreboard. "Low hanging fruit" is very hard to find with most county teams now. It's not like when Tommy Lyons took over and anyone could have improved Offaly football, so disheveled were we before he came in. In that hunt for ever smaller marginal improvement, counties like Dublin can call on a level of resources that at least 20-25 counties in the country could never even dream of matching. Agreements with the GPA regarding player welfare, meals at training, mileage etc are such that there is now a floor cost of running a county team, and you cannot go below that floor. Many counties are hard pressed just to meet those expenses. Matching the counties that spend millions a year on team preparation is simply a pipedream.

All that said, creating a new team between two counties would not address that issue. If anything it would be harder to provide funding since benefactors would have no love for this new entity and so wouldn't be inclined to support it. I certainly wouldn't.

After all that, I'm not sure what the solution is - except to say that this isn't it. I think.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by kingscounty »

Looking at Offaly over the past 15 years or so you wouldnt blame a legend like Tony for saying this, but from todays team id say we could offer Laois one player .As a small county we just cant afford to not look at junior and inter club players in hurling and football.Emmet Mc this year has at least tried something new, open trials and going to junior and inter club games with some lads making the step up.We just cant give up when things are going bad, Donegal won the All Ireland last year 20 years after winning their first , we all know we need to build a team so we may just accept this and let the lads give it a go and see where we are in 2 or 3 years time , its a huge rebuilding job after how bad the past few years have been.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

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kingscounty wrote:Looking at Offaly over the past 15 years or so you wouldnt blame a legend like Tony for saying this, but from todays team id say we could offer Laois one player .As a small county we just cant afford to not look at junior and inter club players in hurling and football.Emmet Mc this year has at least tried something new, open trials and going to junior and inter club games with some lads making the step up.We just cant give up when things are going bad, Donegal won the All Ireland last year 20 years after winning their first , we all know we need to build a team so we may just accept this and let the lads give it a go and see where we are in 2 or 3 years time , its a huge rebuilding job after how bad the past few years have been.
It's not so much that I'd say we could only offer Laois one player - I'd actually disagree strongly on that and I'd say that by my estimation we'd probably have five out of a combined XV - however I don't know that the combined XV would be so much better than the Laois county team or even the Offaly county team is now. Any benefit would be cancelled out by the fact that there would be a lot less passion for such an amalgamation.

As for Tony's political analogy, I still remember a political studio programme in RTE back in the day when Brian Cowen was Minister for Finance and a woman from Portlaoise in the audience was complaining about how her town was deprived because "they had no minister looking after them". So the idea that we were united in politics is not true either, both counties elected two TDs and then fought each other for the last one.

As for the Junior and Intermediate thing though, I would disagree that we ever went through a phase of not considering players from such clubs, at least in my lifetime. Offaly underage teams have always struggled to find fifteen players to make up a strong team so if you were a promising minor, you always got a run at some stage. Equally, I've been part of the football scene in Dublin and Galway as well, where Junior teams genuinely get ignored and Inter teams only get looked at in the knockout stages at best. We don't have that many clubs to keep an eye on here in Offaly and the idea that there are hidden gems out there to be found doesn't wash with me.

If anything, that attitude is the problem - the idea that we're looking for guys who are ready to play county football and hurling out of nowhere, rather than taking fellas with the basic raw materials and the right mindset and training them up to compete.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by kingscounty »

Lone Shark wrote:
kingscounty wrote:Looking at Offaly over the past 15 years or so you wouldnt blame a legend like Tony for saying this, but from todays team id say we could offer Laois one player .As a small county we just cant afford to not look at junior and inter club players in hurling and football.Emmet Mc this year has at least tried something new, open trials and going to junior and inter club games with some lads making the step up.We just cant give up when things are going bad, Donegal won the All Ireland last year 20 years after winning their first , we all know we need to build a team so we may just accept this and let the lads give it a go and see where we are in 2 or 3 years time , its a huge rebuilding job after how bad the past few years have been.
It's not so much that I'd say we could only offer Laois one player - I'd actually disagree strongly on that and I'd say that by my estimation we'd probably have five out of a combined XV - however I don't know that the combined XV would be so much better than the Laois county team or even the Offaly county team is now. Any benefit would be cancelled out by the fact that there would be a lot less passion for such an amalgamation.

As for Tony's political analogy, I still remember a political studio programme in RTE back in the day when Brian Cowen was Minister for Finance and a woman from Portlaoise in the audience was complaining about how her town was deprived because "they had no minister looking after them". So the idea that we were united in politics is not true either, both counties elected two TDs and then fought each other for the last one.

As for the Junior and Intermediate thing though, I would disagree that we ever went through a phase of not considering players from such clubs, at least in my lifetime. Offaly underage teams have always struggled to find fifteen players to make up a strong team so if you were a promising minor, you always got a run at some stage. Equally, I've been part of the football scene in Dublin and Galway as well, where Junior teams genuinely get ignored and Inter teams only get looked at in the knockout stages at best. We don't have that many clubs to keep an eye on here in Offaly and the idea that there are hidden gems out there to be found doesn't wash with me.

If anything, that attitude is the problem - the idea that we're looking for guys who are ready to play county football and hurling out of nowhere, rather than taking fellas with the basic raw materials and the right mindset and training them up to compete.
Dublin and Galway can afford to ignore their junior and inter teams because of the resources they have,isnt that mctagues point we cant compete with the big guns!! Im not saying junior or inter club teams are the answer but surely we could develop the better players and get them up to county level , there are some players playing junior/inter that are better than some of the senior club players. Id like to see open trials in hurling like there was in the football , or maybe there was already was there? No matter how bad Offaly are i wont lose faith.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by DAF »

Sweet mother of god.With all due respect to Tony McTague who was a great footballer that is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.If it happens I doubt anybody would go to see that that team play.You start amalgamating counties and you take away everythingh that is good about intercounty GAA.

Only in a hypothetical world where the GAA goes fully profession and team had to be amalgamated to be able to afford to pay the player would such an idea work and even with that the amalgamations would result in people having very little interest in attending and so compeletly defeat the purpose of the GAA amalgamating team in order to sustain professionalism.

Maybe Ferbane should merge with Clara at senior level seeing as neither has won the championship for a few years.

The day a merger between Offaly and any other county happens is the day I'll stop going to intercounty GAA matches.I'd rather Offaly lost every single football match we ever play than to amalgamate wth another county most especially of all Leix,Westmeath or Kildare.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by Heshs Umpire »

DAF wrote:Sweet mother of god.With all due respect to Tony McTague who was a great footballer that is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.If it happens I doubt anybody would go to see that that team play.You start amalgamating counties and you take away everythingh that is good about intercounty GAA.

Only in a hypothetical world where the GAA goes fully profession and team had to be amalgamated to be able to afford to pay the player would such an idea work and even with that the amalgamations would result in people having very little interest in attending and so compeletly defeat the purpose of the GAA amalgamating team in order to sustain professionalism.

Maybe Ferbane should merge with Clara at senior level seeing as neither has won the championship for a few years.

The day a merger between Offaly and any other county happens is the day I'll stop going to intercounty GAA matches.I'd rather Offaly lost every single football match we ever play than to amalgamate wth another county most especially of all Leix,Westmeath or Kildare.
Full agreement with you DAF from across the border here. I'd sooner shout for Offaly (and have done so before) than a joint team. Pure lunacy from a man who was a great, great footballer.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by The Biff »

I dont know how clever Tony McTeague is, but this suggestion has me intrigued. Surely he knows full well that this will go down like a lead balloon, so why is he even proposing it?

Is he actually serious?
Is it his Doomsday solution just to provoke a response?
Is he just trying to get people to recognise a problem that will require a radical solution (whether this is it or not)?

I'm not completely averse to the idea of amalgamations, but I would expect to see them tried at lower levels first that are in even more need of help, i.e. at club level where it's not a question of trying to be more competitive, it's a question of survival where the resources (playing and financial) are running out.

Look at our current brightest star - Kilcormac/Kiloughey. That's a bone-fide amalgamation, isn't it? Working out fairly well, eh? I wonder what was the response from the locals when that was originally proposed? What would those same folk think now?

Is it really that much different than neighbouring counties considering a similar plan? :idea:

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by SearingDrive »

i think Tony McTague's idea may have some merit. His point is that the bigger counties have a big advantage over smaller counties, and the gap will widen in future, so why not try something different?


Other amalgamations, Sligo/Leitrim, Cavan/ Monaghan, Carlow/Wicklow, Clare/Limerick in football.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by ryot »

While I respect Tony ( and have since he left me tackling fresh air as he was gone another way !!) I dont think we will ever see county amalgamations.

Of course the KK one has worked as has the St Thomas' one but thats local small clubs short of numbers.

Counties always have the numbers to field teams and should concentrate on raising their standards and it is very possible that the very cute Tony is giving a nudge on that !!!

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by TheManFromFerbane »

Just seems crazy to me, Donegal would have been considered a weaker county 2 years ago. They've won two All Irelands in their history, their last Ulster before 2011 was '92 and I don't believe they've won a minor All-Ireland. In short, Donegal proved that to winning an All-Ireland as a smaller county is not about numbers or money, (although they make things easier), it's about tactics, preparation, fitness, commitment, skill and luck.

Tony is a legend, no doubt about that, but not only do I disagree with the solution on this, I also disagree with the problem.
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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by suckindiesel »

as a laois man i can understand where Tony McT is coming from with his suggestion. laois hurling and offaly football as it stands are not going to win an all ireland in my lifetime, the competition has moved to a different level. offaly hurling and laois football could be outside prospects of threatening an all ireland, moreso offaly hurlers, though luck and circumstances would need to be on their side. that dear friends is reality, no lovey dovey day dreaming.

offaly of the McTague and later the what i call Walsh Island eras, were to gaelic football what Notts Forest were to uk soccer. a small brand outpunching the heavyweights. just as notts forest has fallen away and will never again get near champions league status, offaly too has fallen by the wayside, and the dynamics surrounding the elite in both sports now mean that it is impossible to crack into that elite group unless you have mega resources. in soccer a qatari tycoon can help, in gaa such a remedy does not exist.

for years within leinster, the gaa at provincial level have pumped huge resources into the capital, now some 10-12 years down the line, that investment in dublin is coming to fruition, sadly at the expense of the likes of offaly, laois and other minor counties in the province. 10 years ago laois was the premium underage brand in the province, due to excellent coaches and a number of talented crops all arriving at the same time. of late the best laois underage 15 would not be a match for the dublin reserves.

personally, i am against amalgamations, they are a weak solution, and for every one that renders a positive result, you will have another 5 that wilt on the vine if the early results are negative. in all sports, most competitors are losers, however on the odd occasion that success pays you a visit then it is all the sweeter. counties like leitrim, longford, fermanagh etc may rarely win, what they bring to the table is a unique identity, and that is a commodity that we in the gaa should cherish. soccer and rugby clubs throughout the island would love to a whole county identity, they dont, the gaa has it and should not lose it,.......for that reason alone Tonys idea is a non runner.


finally, well done to KK, delighted you beat the rather arrogant lads from Tipp. little did i think when i watched the offaly final, that i might be watching the all ireland champions in action. i assume they are now converting a better percentage of their chances than they did for example in the first half of the offaly final.


and to lone shark.....i do read you star bets column....... 12 months ago i would have agreed with your views on laois senior footballers. i do not now. i have watched all of their games for the past year including the byrne cup games and I was in derry on sunday. i doubt if you have seen the team in action and suspect that you are giving a very anti laois, jaundiced view. the team has progressed ten fold in the past nine months, since the longford defeat. mcnulty is a very good manager. we have gone from being a rather weak nice team of ball players, into a very physical outfit as is required for the modern game, and all the squad is now buying into a system of play( a rather anti laois style concept). We are a class forward short of being a real force, I believe on an given day, in a one to one championship game, we are capable of beating the likes of donegal or mayo. last year due to a good draw we got to the quarter finals, along that run of games the team developed. we are the best team in division 2 and i would say that another last 8 and maybe even last 4 place is within arms reach if the likes of kingston stepped up to the plate and delivered what he is capable of, on the big stage. i respect your opinions lone shark, but tipping us for relegation was pure ignorance. Apart from the shadow team when laois played offaly in the o byrne cup, can i ask how often you have seen laois play in the past year? perhaps, rather than guessing, why dont you actually travel to see the team play in the flesh before promoting/knocking them in the future. you know full well, if you dont do the legwork, you need not expect results.

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by westender »

No way Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: McTague - Offaly should amalgamate with Laois

Post by I am Tony McTague »

Tony McTagues Road Map to a better All-Ireland Championship

Hello, I’m Tony McTague, clearly.

Right, lets get down to business.
I’m only here to try an improve the chances of the little man, ya know, the Leix’s, Westmeaths and Kildares of this world. God knows they’v bin starved of success for so long now. Share out the success, that’s what I say. Sure look at my own club Ferbane and the success we used have. I thought it a little unfair, so I decided to invent Shamrocks. Yea, that was my idea. Didn’t work out as planned, but sure there ya go. Cant win ‘em all (exactly my plan). A few years later I came up with the idea for Brosna Gaels, and St. Vincents too. Works in progress they are. Ham AND cheese toasties, yea, they were mine too.

Now, me plan might seem a little shnakey, as ya’ll see below. I’d like to see some of the stronger counties broke up a bih (Kerry & Cork), and some of the ones I don’t like too (Tipperary, I’m talking to you!).

But shur this is only wha I’m proposing. If yis have something yis want ta add, feel free to throw your opinion hat into the ring.

Offaleix –
As I mentioned before, this would be Offaly & Leix joining up. I smell an All-Ireland outta this team.

Justmeath –
Get rid of this West Meath, North Meath, South bleedin East Meath. Just one Meath will do…..Justmeath. Give them the Harps too ta be fucked, coz I’m sick a lookin at them here in Offaleix. Will have to give Bettystown back to the Pale though, so all the lads outta Dublin Castle can take their hollyers without having to leave the Pale.

I’d like to see the Pale back again. Jaysus, we had some shcraps with them at minor. Used to be right ould craic.

The Pale (North Riding) –
A bih of a reduction on the old pale (only as far as Drawweda, plus Justmeath can keep Navan, coz it’s an absolute kip). A successful Pale North Riding is good for the GAA, as we all know

The Pale (South Riding) –
The Dublin mountain (foothills) will be returned to Wickla.
They’ll gain Naas too, and Leixlip, and Clane…..all those city towns.

Curragh –
The Curragh will gain most of historical Kildare’s land, but they will lose Kilcock to Justmeath (no real reason, I just felt like it), and Naas & Clane to Pale South Riding. But shur give them Blessington from Wickla, and as far as the roundabout at Tesco in Edenderry as consolation.

Carl Kenny –
This will result as a merger of Carlow & Kilkenny. A football powerhouse, they will not be.
It could be like yer man and yer other man who scored for Hartlepool the other day. Hartley & Poole. Ya couldn’t write that shite. That’s why I’m going to try. All you budding Carl Kenny’s out there, here’s your chance to be famous.

Wickla –
They’ll get their mountains back and some of Wexford too. Unlikley to make them brilliant overnight though…..or ever.

New Breffni –
Longford, Cavan & South Leitrim. Ya wont get any more culchy than here.
These hoors need a hand though, that’s for sure.

Claregalway –
Clare & most of Galway will merge. They can base themselves out of Claregalway, for logistical purposes, or just for the craic like….

Shannon –
That long spermy looking thing on the map. I’m mostly in favour of keeping all those river dwelling folk together on one piece of land, preferably the piece just by the river. Always a bit suspicious of rivers. Ya wouldn’t know if they’re coming or going. Shannon would get all of Limerick city too, of course, to build all their Yurts an’ Egloo’s or whahever they do. Might be a bit of a shpin from Leitrim all the way to Limerick, but who doesn’t like a road trip, eh? It’d take in a few mile either side of the river all the way, so Offaleix would be losing the like of Shannonbridge & Banagher.

South Armagh –
They should have their own team. Basically it’ll just be Crossmaglen. They’re very clannish up there.
Their supporters are likely to bring the ‘Millwall’ or ‘Serbia’ touch to games. Don’t mess with them.

Oriel –
Was always a big fan of the history meself. Wouldn’t it be nice to bring back a nice old name like this. The remaining parts of Louth, mid-Armagh & all of Monaghan will form an updated version of an ancient territory.

Londonderry –
This will be involve an extension of County Derrys boundaries (the Inishowen peninsula from Donegal and North Tyrone) in an attempt to increase their chances of success, and hopefully popularise the game in the UK. The Londonderry name will be used to aid this process (in the same way as go-faster stripes do on a car). Anyway, London is so ‘in’ this season.
Note: the London team will be need to be disbanded though. Unhealthy competition.

Rathkeale Metropolitan Area –
An area for the traveller, who likes to kick a bih a ball at weekends. North Kerry & the majority of County Limerick.
No idea what ya’d call this place though. It’ll eventually resemble one giant halting site I imagine.
A massive urban sprawl coming outta Rathkeale. Away days in South Armagh might be nothing in comparison to here.

Danegal –
The Kingdom of the O’Donnells. In particular, Daniel, an old fave of mine. I’m a big fan of putting some of the old Kingdoms back on the map (…..and getting rid of one particular ‘Kingdom’ by slicing it into pieces). Londonderry will get the Inishowen peninsula from Danegal though. But they gain all of North Leitrim.

Southeast Rebellion –
Mick Wallace was onto me and he’s looking to get involved with my whole idea. He’s looking to buy in, see’s himself as a sorta Malcolm Glazer character. We could give him a Franchise, see how it goes. The possibility of moving this Franchise will be up for negotiation after a 5 year term. Will consist of some parts of East Waterford county, the city of Waterford itself and a large chunk of South Wexford. A new bridge will be constructed linking mainland Waterford directly with Wexford. Labour for this will be provided by out-of-work GAA players. John Mullane is currently at nohing I think.

Mid Kerry –
They’ll get to keep Tralee anyway. I don’t know if that’s good or bad.

Korky –
They’re likely to be a perennial contender. South Kerry & West Cork.

Connemara & the Islands –
If there’s one thing I’m more suspicious of than rivers, then its 1950’s folk. Don’t trust them. So what better way to ease your mind than to batch all them Connemara folk with all our Western Isles, especially Achill. Would include southwest Mayo too.

Greater Roscommon –
Roscommon as we know it, only with Ballaghadereen and a nice stretch of N5 included. Also some of South Shligo added.

New Mayo –
Including most of Shligo, but they wont feature in the name because everybody always forgets about Shligo.

Tipperary will be split into two by the river Suir. (Take that, yeez hooers!!!)

Tipperarea West –
All of Tipp west of the Suir (including the part of Limerick, located south-east of Limerick City) and some of North Waterford (north of the Blackwater).

Tipperarea East –
All of Tipp east of the Suir and most of mid-Waterford.

Blackwater –
I was always suspicious of rivers (cept for the peaceful Brosna). But they are good for dividing things though.
The old central part of Cork, including Cork City and East Cork. Will also include West Waterford.

North Cork –
To include a small portion of southeast Limerick and a corner of northwest Waterford. Might be more suited to the small ball in these parts.

Antrim & Ards –
This should boosht their pick for the hurley anyways.
They’ll get to keep half of Belfast. Good stretch of coast too, for poaching any potential Scots.

Non-Ards –
Down was always a silly name for a place anyway. They’ll get a good part of Belfast outta it too.
Obviously they’ll lose the Ards peninsula, but shur it was bound to break off at some point soon anyways.

Fermanagh & South Tyrone –
Loosely (and lazily) based on a political constituency. Halve up Tyrone anyway. That’ll halt them for a while. Give them Fermanagh too, shur that’s only one giant lake anyway, isn’t it?....


From this I think ya’d get a lot of teams capable of been very successful in the football championship..
Offaleix, Justmeath, Pale North Riding, Pale South Riding, Londonderry, Korky, Claregalway, etc.
Fair enough, there’d be some teams who’d be utter shite like, Connemara & The Islands, both Tipperarea’s, North Cork, Shannon probably, not to mention my good friend Carl Kenny. But to be fair, nobody gives a monkeys about these places, especially Tipperarea. They might win something in the hurley maybe, but we’r not here to talk abou that.

Now, I’ve said my piece. That’s all that matters

Good day to yis

T Mac T
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Counties of Ireland (edit).JPG (105.94 KiB) Viewed 12407 times
Last edited by I am Tony McTague on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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