Allianz FL Division 4 2013

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
DAF
All Star
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by DAF »

Bord na Mona man wrote:Job well done by Offaly.
First half the tactics were spot on, get men behind the ball, use a sweeper to deter the long ball, hold onto possession, run down the clock.

Tipperary never got a run of scores at all despite the gale behind them. In a 35 minute half against the wind, you could defend brilliantly for 30 minutes and get destroyed in just 5 minutes. Only once did Offaly give away a blatant turnover score, despite playing a lot of 'keep ball'.

What was pleasing to see is that now fellas are working much harder with supporting runs.
Take McConway and Pender in the full back line for example. There were several occasions when they broke out of defence, gave the pass and kept running in support to receive the ball again and carried it into the other half of the field.
This wasn't happening last year and Offaly were always running out of options when trying to work the ball out of defence.

The half back line did well also. Eoin Carroll looks a real find here, though he tire with about 10 minutes to go.
Of the 5 players who started in attack Guilfoyle and Connor carried the ball at times and broke tackles. McNamee, Casey and Anton are all coming back from lay offs, so aren't 100%, but will be happy enough with their outings.

The negatives. Offaly didn't immediately look to put Tipp to sword with the wind and lost their shape around the time of the conceded goal. It was only later in the 2nd half that Offaly started really going direct at Tipp. Also, the ref moved up far too many frees for dissent. Two of them turned difficult frees into very scorable ones.

This time last year, there were jibes coming from all angles about how if there was Division 5, Offaly would be in it etc.
3 games in to this campaign, promotion didn't look likely either. Credit must be given for the turnaround. The management should be applauded for steering things back on course after the Clare defeat.

Finally, some of the complaints on this topic throughout the league are bemusing. Do lads really pay into matches and expect to see laser guided 40 metre kickpasses hitting the "O" on the Carroll's logo. Yesterday was trench warfare in difficult conditions and escaping Division 4 was all that mattered. I'd have settled for 0-1 to 0-0 if that was what was needed.

If Tipperary were any good they would have won yesterday.The tactics Offaly have employed this year are fine against poor teams but against better teams (like Kildare) it won't be good enough to put men behind the ball and hope Niall McNamee does something special.Niall was clearly getting frustrated yesterday at the lack of support, the half forward line have to push forward in my opinion and give the team more balance. Its frustrating to watch Offaly play because in spasms when we are more positive we play some good football and look like a decent team unfortunatley we don't play with this kind of positivity for long enough.Our support running up to the half back line is fine but further up the field it isnt good enough.The team have improved massively this year and at least they are fit and have some organisation and 8 wins from 11 matches already is a huge improvement.Nobody is expecting champgane football but Offaly are goals a key times in games have put a gloss on things, we won't get those goals every week.

Truth as i see it
All Star
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:34 pm

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Truth as i see it »

brownie wrote:puke,puke,and more puke football.terrible stuff.the manangement are taking the trapatonni approach.if your players are not good enough,dont let the other team score.was happy with 1st half tactics.couldnt believe the 2nd half tactics.playing 4 in the full back line and 12 inside our half playing with the wind and needing a win for promotion.lucky enough that Tipp missed 2 goals and a few points aswell as a man sent off.we only pulled away after that.enjoy the day out in Dublin.its not going to be good after that .p.s i noticed Anton in the 2nd half asking could he go forward and was told to sit back.we were only 1pt up at this stage.if we were afraid of half a tipp team,god help us v kildare.im sure some one will agrue a wins a win.fair enough if your happy with that.
I was at the game myself and while at times the team were very defensive when they exchanged one-twos around the box especially in the first 10-15 minutes they did look very dangerous on the ball an i think its just a case of learning to be more clinical around the box

However having said that they did over carry the ball at the back and could have left themselves exposed once or twice with a few iffy balls across the back line

I got the impression that because it was a high stakes game, neither side were willing to make a mistake and it took time for both teams to open up and play a bit

My own impression of Mcdonnell is that he wanted to get the team out of Division 4 as quick as possible in any way possible

I've seen one or two matches that he was involved with last year with St Mary's and he is capable of getting the team to play good positive football but i think his main priority this year was to get the confidence back in the team as quickly as possible by winning as many games as possible and getting the team of the basement division

Put it like this, if we had played brilliant football yesterday and lost by a point or even drawn how much do you think that would have set back the moral of the team and to the development of the younger players

I think he believes that there is a certain level they have to get to first before the team starts to expand its attacking patterns but first things first and that is to make the team hard to beat

I think he is using this template as a default setting and as the team progresses through the leagues (hopefully) i'm guessing you will see the team becoming more confident within itself to press forward a little more and i would think that Mcdonnell would be more willing to give them lee way in this regard

I get that the football isn't pretty at times and i certainly not a fan of defensive football but you have to bear in mind that this is a step by step process and also remember that last year we had trouble winning any games at all, this year we have won six including a 4 in a row streak which could yet end with a division trophy

As the manager said himself its not going to happen overnight but step one has been achieved, for me if you had said to me that the team would be promoted from division 4 with a 4 game winning streak i would have snapped their hand off

Anything else after that is a bonus

These two games in Croke park will be good experience for the team especially for the young players

If we win the division outright and give Kildare a good run for their money in the championship for me there's a lot to be positive about this year

User avatar
Lone Shark
All Star
Posts: 5378
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:21 pm
Club: Ferbane
Location: Roscommon
Contact:

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Lone Shark »

DAF wrote: If Tipperary were any good they would have won yesterday.
It's easy to make a cheap shot and say that Tipperary are no good, but their last three results coming into yesterday's games were big wins by six points or more against Clare, Limerick and Leitrim - remind me again how Offaly did against those teams? Maybe they didn't play well, but at some point you have to give credit to Offaly for that - both to the management team for putting in place a system that worked and for the players for executing it well.

Of course there were times when the forwards were isolated, but these things have to be dealt with one thing at a time - if we get the defensive side of the game sorted out, you have a chance because you can keep Kildare down to a manageable score and then give yourself a chance of winning the game. If we were to go out against Kildare in Croke Park and try to attack them from all sides we'd get blown away. It's basic maths that if you play the type of game where there will only be twenty scores on average, the underdog has a much better chance of winning than if it's the type of game where there will be 35-40 scores.
DAF wrote: Nobody is expecting champgane football but Offaly are goals a key times in games have put a gloss on things, we won't get those goals every week.
We've scored at least one goal in every game bar one, and no team has scored more goals than us in a game yet this season. Maybe it would be fair to give the team some credit for this, rather than presuming that these goals are just lucky?
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

ryot
All Star
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:35 pm
Club: Doon

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by ryot »

Yesterday I might have sounded a bit negative and made some criticisms and I will always point out flaws BUT

I am delighted that the lads have gained promotion. Yes they play defensively but Tipp were even more defensive and it did not work for them !!!

At least there is a system and they are learning to work it and the fitness level is so far ahead of last year.

All seem to have bought into the Manager and no "Walk-offs" or moans about "hard training".

I hope they give the Final a right rattle aand maybe Limerick are not that brilliant.

Happy with progress todate and a Title would be a bonus !!!!!!

Roll on June. Living in Kildare I need some pride restored come June !!!!!

User avatar
Lone Shark
All Star
Posts: 5378
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:21 pm
Club: Ferbane
Location: Roscommon
Contact:

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Lone Shark »

The fitness issue raised by Ryot is pertinent too. Again, credit has to be given here. In the last four games, the result has been in doubt with five minutes to go and in all four cases, Offaly finished stronger than their opponents. Obviously Kildare will be a different level of test again, but that has to be respected.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Square Cab
Intermediate
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:11 pm

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Square Cab »

First off well done to the lads for getting that result yesterday and for winning promotion. I know a serious amount of hard work has been done by the players and management over the last few months so they deserve a lot of credit for that. Obviously their style of play has divide opinion, one side happy with winning at all costs and the other preferring to watch a more attractive brand of football which lessens the team’s chances of winning.I totally understand why they were sent out to play so negatively and obviously the result justifies the means but my God it was tough to watch. The attendance reflects the fact that people don’t want to go and watch matches like this. I was fully expecting a big crowd yesterday but it never materialised and to be honest I can’t blame anyone for not turning up. I brought a 9 year old to it yesterday and after it he said he didn’t want to play for Offaly anymore. Bit dramatic but I understand why he said it. Back in ’97 (I know it’s a long time ago and we had far better players) but we were begging to be brought to every match. I just hope for the sake of Offaly football, the right people can see the bigger picture. Anyhow best of luck in the final, I’ll be there for better or worse! (and this post isn't a criticism of anyone really......its more of an observation)

User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
Posts: 4043
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am
Club: Clara

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Fixtures for the finals.

Saturday April 27th, 2013

5 00 PM
ALLIANZ FOOTBALL LEAGUE ROINN 4 2013 FINAL
Limerick vs. Offaly
Páirc an Chrócaigh
Referee: TBC
Extratime playable

7 00 PM
ALLIANZ FOOTBALL LEAGUE ROINN 3 FINAL 2013 FINAL
Monaghan vs.Meath
Páirc an Chrócaigh
Referee: TBC
Extratime playable

http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/date/2013_04_27/

Killeighman
All Star
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Killeighman »

Lads first of all i am very proud of the lads to get promoted because division 4 is very difficult to get out of and we are one step closer to the top. Yeah the football is not good but i would take a win while playing bad rather than playing great and losing. i think when we come to june and meet kildare we will put in a good honest hard working performance and rattle them. there will be more space and time than in division 4 because that is plain scrappy. just again i think the boys deserve a bit more credit than there getting

Killeighman
All Star
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Killeighman »

the veteran wrote:peformance best ive seen under this management .all teams piay this group defence now that is the football has gone the only way to beat it is wit excellent footballers. b darby my player of the year so far .eoin carrol was excellent justifying management faith in him .

Just on that point about Eoin Carroll. He is not the best footballer going but he is just a donkey to work and he does all the hard work. Im delighted that he is finally getting recognised for it. This team needs players that do all the hard work. We dont need to have magnificent footballers just lads that do the hard yards

DAF
All Star
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by DAF »

Lone Shark wrote:
DAF wrote: If Tipperary were any good they would have won yesterday.
It's easy to make a cheap shot and say that Tipperary are no good, but their last three results coming into yesterday's games were big wins by six points or more against Clare, Limerick and Leitrim - remind me again how Offaly did against those teams? Maybe they didn't play well, but at some point you have to give credit to Offaly for that - both to the management team for putting in place a system that worked and for the players for executing it well.

Of course there were times when the forwards were isolated, but these things have to be dealt with one thing at a time - if we get the defensive side of the game sorted out, you have a chance because you can keep Kildare down to a manageable score and then give yourself a chance of winning the game. If we were to go out against Kildare in Croke Park and try to attack them from all sides we'd get blown away. It's basic maths that if you play the type of game where there will only be twenty scores on average, the underdog has a much better chance of winning than if it's the type of game where there will be 35-40 scores.
DAF wrote: Nobody is expecting champgane football but Offaly are goals a key times in games have put a gloss on things, we won't get those goals every week.
We've scored at least one goal in every game bar one, and no team has scored more goals than us in a game yet this season. Maybe it would be fair to give the team some credit for this, rather than presuming that these goals are just lucky?
Tipperary were below par yesterday, I was expecting a lot more from them and they steadily improved during the league.I doubt any of their fans were too impressed with their performance yesterday.At one stage in the second half they handpassed the ball at least 20 times back and across the field without making any progress that may have been due to good Offaly defending but this was the same type of rubbish Offaly indulged in far too much last year so I would say it was as much down to Tipps ineptitude.

You can still play defensively and have support for our full forward line the half forward have just got to break from their defensive positions more quickly and provide and option for the backs coming out with the ball. Niall McNamee is getting very little support from our half forward line and the support play once the ball goes past the half back line is poor if we play this defensively against Division 4 opposition then think how little support McNamee is going to get against Kildare. Why was Anton Sullivan a dangerous and fast forward and positioned in the full back line in the second half, why was Niall Darby (who did well) a pacy player playing so deep when perhaps his pace could have been utilized better further up the field.

Offaly are playing against weaker opposition than they were last year an the real test of this team will come against Kildare, obviously the team are much better organised, disciplined and fitter than last year but that alone won't be enough against decent opposition Offaly should have been aiming to push on and finish Tipperary off early in yesterday match but with the wind in the second half we left it late to seal the victory, I'm just concerned that the teams are being too negative and that won't be good enough in the championship.

By the way I'm not being negative for the sake of it I'm delighted to see the team winning so many matches and getting promotion it's just I think against division 4 opposition this year we have been far too cautious at times and we look good when we play some football we should try to be more positive. Hopefully we are in the division 4 final.

User avatar
High School Musical
All Star
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:02 pm
Club: St. Vincents
Location: Straight outta Compton

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by High School Musical »

High School Musical wrote:Lar Corbett, Una Healy, Pat Shortt, Babs Keating, Frank Patterson, Michael Lowry, the Clancy Brothers, Nicky English, - vi har slått dem alle sammen. Vi har slått dem alle sammen. Roz Purcell, can you hear me? Roz Purcell, your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!
In light of today's tragic news, it is now apparent that my choice of words yesterday evening would appear to be in extremely bad taste. I can honestly assure you all that I had absolutely nothing, whatsoever, to do with the death of Mrs. Thatcher and that it was merely a coincidence that I decided to use a quote made famous by its reference to her, only hours before her passing. As you're all aware, the 'Iron Lady' had nothing to do with Tipperary at all, or Offaly for that matter. Or even Rhode. Actually, she had very little interest in GAA full-stop. I can, however, promise you all that I won't refer to her again, going forward. At this stage, all I can do is offer my apologies to all those offended.

DAF
All Star
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by DAF »

High School Musical wrote:
High School Musical wrote:Lar Corbett, Una Healy, Pat Shortt, Babs Keating, Frank Patterson, Michael Lowry, the Clancy Brothers, Nicky English, - vi har slått dem alle sammen. Vi har slått dem alle sammen. Roz Purcell, can you hear me? Roz Purcell, your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!
In light of today's tragic news, it is now apparent that my choice of words yesterday evening would appear to be in extremely bad taste. I can honestly assure you all that I had absolutely nothing, whatsoever, to do with the death of Mrs. Thatcher and that it was merely a coincidence that I decided to use a quote made famous by its reference to her, only hours before her passing. As you're all aware, the 'Iron Lady' had nothing to do with Tipperary at all, or Offaly for that matter. Or even Rhode. Actually, she had very little interest in GAA full-stop. I can, however, promise you all that I won't refer to her again, going forward. At this stage, all I can do is offer my apologies to all those offended.
Apology accepted :(

Ahlethimoutwithit
All Star
Posts: 764
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Ahlethimoutwithit »

Brownie, I take your point. From the managers perspective, he has put a system in place, and Offaly got promoted. However, I would say that looking back on the games v Carlow and Tipp, we got the breaks to a degree. It could easily have gone the other way. Tipp missed a massive goal chance in the first half, and had 2 clear goal chances in the second half.
Also despite Offaly having so many men back, Tipp cut right through Offaly during the second half, and by kicking high towards the goals from 30 yds (or not shooting at all!!) where the breeze held up the ball and caused a number to drop short. Indeed 3 of these "skyscrapers" were caught by Tipp forwards on their own.

So my point? I think we tried to play a defensive system, but succeeded despite ourselves. Another key factor was the fading of certain players, RIchie, Anton, Alan Mc, (Ruari Allen had little impact), all playing around the middle with legs gone 10 mins into second half, (in terms of tracking back). Indeed how Alan Mc got away with so many fouls was unreal before he picked up a yellow card. Alan played quite well, and looks to be getting into better shape to compete for 50 mins which is all you expect.
The Carlow game? They looked likely winners until a bizarre decision against B Murphy for a handpass, led to a free through which Offaly got the goal to pull away?
If we decide to play this system, McDonnell must make the right changes, Eoin Carroll, and Brian Connors power and work rate, plus the addition of Ross Brady drove us on. We need fresh legs through the middle at the right time.

So well done, but lets see how the play evolves, and the final will be a perfect chance for McDonnell to have a look at expanding the game, (he'll have to or we may not score!!) to exploit the space. Limerick are a good side, who will funnel back and use quick ball into their 2 inside forwards.

Mighty to have a day out in Croke park though, so lets go and enjoy this one.

User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
Posts: 4043
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am
Club: Clara

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Compare Sunday to last July when Offaly played Tipperary in Thurles in the qualifiers.
That evening, Tipp played a 2 man full forward line, withdrew everyone else and Offaly (being Offaly) matched them by going man-to-man and having 2 man full back line. Tipp cleaned out Offaly by hitting everything into the open space that this 2 vs 2 battle took place in.

On Sunday, Tipperary didn't have the same option as Offaly kept a sweeper back. So even with the strong wind Tipp still had to carry the ball closer and try to be more accurate with it.

Obviously you could pick holes with other aspects of the defending and Tipp did get chances, but they also got a fortunate goal to bring them back into it. Offaly most likely would have pulled away earlier otherwise.

Room with a view
Junior C
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:18 am
Club: Ferbane

Re: Allianz FL Division 4 2013

Post by Room with a view »

I agree totally with B na M man as regards the contrast between how we tried to defend "man to man" before this season and got destroyed and how we now flood the defence with players to good effect.Of course this is not attractive football and neither do we have it perfected by any means but this has been the trend in gaelic football for some time now and is employed by all the more successful teams , ie , Donegal , Dublin, etc.It might take McDonnell a while to fine tune it to suit this particular team but I think we will all be happy to take one step at a time if we get relative success along the way.And don't forget last Sunday was the first bit of success we've had for some time, to win the final would be a nice bonus.The final against Limerick will be a good opportunity to develop further the playing system in the more spacious Croke Park with Kildare in mind in the championship.From watching Offaly in the O Byrne cup and through the league it's obvious we are improving overall. We may have got a few lucky breaks along the way but the main thing is that we could take full advantage of the lucky breaks we got as in the Carlow game , a game that was slipping away from us until we got the lucky free and subsequent goal from Pender , but what team that has ever won anything hasn't availed of a fair slice of luck . Donegal got a lucky goal against Kerry last year which proved very valuable by games end but that's football , if it goes over the line or if the ref doesn't see it , take it, as enough will go against you in the fullness of time.So well done to Offaly and we can at least look forward to the championship against Kildare without that terrible sense of foreboding and hopelessness :) that accompanied our efforts last year especially. Kildare will be a tall order for this developing Offaly team but a good showing is what we are all looking for and on the day anything is possible. I remember back in 1978 a very untried Offaly were given no chance against a rampant Dublin team with 3 all Irelands under its belt but we played out of our skins and but for a really bad decision against Martin Furlong and the resultant Dub goal from the spot , we would have pulled off a sensational victory .By the way Offaly were Leinster champs two years later so there's always hope.Keep the faith guys !

Post Reply