Allianz FL Division 4 2013

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

By the way, talk about Fiddling while we are in the middle of being engulfed in a bog fire!! Thanks for those nuggets re Micko, I'm glad we were able to keep his good record intact! Its a consolation of sorts

[the veteran]

so hard to no what to say after that very disappointimg system is not working have to be more positive i dont mind been bet but the manner of defeat was appalling 'we were down in the game and still only had 2 forwards .if i was n mac id be pissed off 4 or more around u all the time .talet resources are poor most good team built on under age sucess we have had none 'not much unity in d camp 2 players taken off in 1st half headed straight down d tunnel .suppoters and players have to remain strong finally mcdon is a reactive coach he shud be pro active do ur own thing and play to ur teams strenghts . be positive and keep d faith

[townman]

The reality is based on a couple of facts,
1) Because of the requirements of inter county football, lot of lads can't/won't commit, (and work committments in some cases)
-(Niall Smith, Brickland, Deehan, Reynolds, James Coughlan, Alan Lynam, Aidan Keenaghan, Joe Quinn, Scott Brady)
-Hurling, Sean Ryan, Con Mahon, Dan Currams
-McManus served the county well, and the lack of free taker to take over from him was always going to cost us after he left, (but little did we know how badly).

Feel free to add to the list.

And I know, some of these guys have been tried and failed before, (but albeit at a higher Division). Throw in a few of these guys with the right prep and things may not be as bad.

Plenty of the weaker counties have gone through this, Carlow/Wicklow were blighted by many of their better players not playing for them. This seems to have changed in these counties as players are better looked after and have better facilities. Longford/Tipp have progressed their structures too.

There is a malaise in the county around the GAA, and also the recession has hit Offaly harder. Clubs have lost young guys who would be the next lifeblood of rural areas and in my opinion has sucked the life out of some area's.
Clubs are not producing players with the hunger and desire to play county football, Shamrocks/Doon/Ballycumber/Clonbullogue/Daingean/Gracefield/Ferbane over recent years/ST Rynagh's to name but a few. This needs to change and come from within. And if there are players there they need to be identified and mentored to get them ready for county.
Trying to get quality people involved in coaching underage teams is a challenge, and this is feeding through also.

Finally, and its a worry for me since this mgt was appointed, (and its not too late to address), Emmet McDonnell has his brother on board, plus Paul Mollin from Ferbane. I have asked and this seems to be the full quota.
Paul is decent fella, but I would not have seen him too involved in teams, (a bit with Doon) or at matches. Now , I know that lads were asked but I think that this is not a strong group, and thus we seem to have a panel made up from a couple of clubs. But I think that we should have a couple of guys supporting Emmet McDonnell across the county.

However, I think its important to try and keep supporting the team. The last 2 games have been harrowing experiences, especially where the players are concerned as they are working hard and a lot of good work has been done, both on and off the field. It has not come through yet, but keep at it.

County Board need to sit down with McDonnell and his team, and see how they can help them, McDonnell may need to look at bringing in some additional support if he wishes, (not sure what that would look like), but its important that the man is not left floundering either. CB needs to support him in this difficult patch and there might be the possibility of progress.

good post but alot of them players that you have mention, have played with offaly all the way down to division 4. and have done nothing in the championship over the years.

everyone goes on about Niall Smith and how big a lost he is, i never seen him standing out in the championship for offaly, last year in portlaoise he was a joke on the ground the whole time looking at the sideline to take him off didn't have the belly for it.

mind you i have watched Gracefield a few times the last few years and he doesn't even stand out for them. his no show in the county semil-final in 2011 again Edenderry when Richie Dalton played him out of it tells you all you need to know.

right the players are not in offaly fair enough, but this thing of lads on abouts players that are not there anymore and weren't much good when they were there has to stop.

[offaly2012]

Was in a discussion with a fella in Oconnor Park yesterday during half time.
he asked me what does the current management team know about offaly football
all I could say was they were in a school but that still does not explain anything really.
He pointed out that tommy Lyons had to staunch offaly men as selectors.
Who do they have now Paul mollin. He asked me have I seen Paul Mollin at any club matches at any stage since management was appointed . To be honest I said I didnt.

To me I think it is simple we Need offaly men to solve an offaly problem

[Bord na Mona man]

Anton Sullivan's loss is huge. He workrate off the ball is immense and he is also a great link player.
The problem is there aren't many like him in Offaly.
Meaning we struggle to get a decent supply of quick ball into the forwards. The choice seems to be either - slow handpassing moves upfield, or hit in hope balls towards the inside line... or a combination of both.

I don't fully buy into the "we haven't got the players" argument though. In Division 3 and 4, how many other counties have a rich supply of talent? Are 10 or 12 of the bottom 16 counties clearly besting Offaly at underage and schools for example?
Aside from the obvious stand out names, most county team at this level are mostly made up of journeymen. It's how well you get these lads prepared, motivated, the positions you select them in and the tactics employed that is the bigger factor.

Less than years ago Offaly were narrowly edged out of promotion to Division 2 and have obviously gone into a tailspin since then.

McDonnell is at a critical moment now. Previous history has shown that at crisis points like this, certain Offaly players get the huff and jack it in when they are required to man up. If he can deliver a backlash performance and a win against Leitrim then he will have earned his stripes. If the team play with a sulk and get beaten again, then the illness in Offaly football looks terminal.

[kingscounty]

I think the county board jumped to quick on appointing current management, fair enough he had won a schools all ireland but for me the county board should have given it to Darby plain and simple. Theres a huge difference in training young lads to win a schools match, maybe if Emmet had 3 or 4 years experience as a selector with a county team then he might have been worth looking at but to give him the senior and under21 job at such a young age and with very little county experience for me was to much to soon. The job of Offaly manager is in my opinion one of the hardest in Ireland, small area to work with, playing in divison 4, small financial support compared to the big guns, its not very attractive to play or even manage. Brady,Claffey,Cullen, Grennan etc were good players but they won feck all either , id be more for mentioning Tony Mc, Matt, Lowrys, that era as legends!!!

[Lone Shark]

One thing's for sure - this is a real and meaningful test of the management skills of the guys in there now. Managing school kids is one thing - they don't have complicated lives where they have to balance a lot of different things, so they'll generally do whatever you ask. Similarly, it's all very well to generate a feelgood factor in training when you don't have concrete metrics to assess how you're doing. It's easy to kid yourself into thinking you're flying when in fact all you've done is finally started training at the pace that every other county operates at all the time.

This is different - now you have a real crisis. Promotion from Division four is almost certainly off the table now, while we're preparing for a Leinster championship game against Kildare, who have just beaten the last four All Ireland winning counties in their last four games. On the face of it, there is no hope and nothing to play for.

Now, McDonnell, a Westmeath man, has to connect with these guys and figure out how to turn things around. When we got relegated to division 4 under Kevin Kilmurray it was a disaster - we were way above that level and our results the following year proved that. Now it's no harm to be in division four, because that's what we are - a division four team. There were excuses for losing to Limerick, but yesterday we were outclassed, and outclassed by a team who have one or two decent footballers absolutely, but no more than we do. Yet we let them come to Tullamore and make a show of us.

Everyone would have different views about who should be in there and I'd be the first to admit that there are lads in that squad, lads who started yesterday, that I wouldn't have on a panel of 50. Nonetheless I'm just one more backseat driver - the management team have done the trials, they've seen what's to be seen and they've decided that this squad gives them what they need most. Now they need to make the players believe in what they're trying to do, and fast.

Finally, just on Paul Mollen, I'm not just standing up for a fellow Ferbane man when I say he is quite astute and he does take in a lot of football games down our end. Perhaps there is a case for saying that the management team is short on local knowledge but Paul would definitely be well informed and he would have a role to play. That's not to say that another similarly clued in local wouldn't be welcome too.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Townman,I have to take issue over Niall Smith. He is potentially the best midfielder in the county. However, the best are the ones who can commit. He cant match the committment that his manager wants because of his job, so thats it? Its a conundrum, but dont tell me he wouldnt offer more than ALan Mc or Ross?

Dalton is written off here by many, but I do feel that he has come on over the last 2 years. He must be carrying an injury or he would surely start?

I make the suggestion about some of the players I listed, as some of them are still at an age that can play at a high level, and were part of a team that did push for Div 2. They may have "matured" in their atitude, and if they could help this group of players get out of this division then they would hev served a purpose.

-Couple of points made by posters, "P Cunningham was playing well before he was taken off"- eh no , he wasnt, he was fouled a couple of times, he handpassed a ball over the sideline, he kicked a brutal wide from in front of the goals. But was he worse than any of the rest?, Probably not.
-G Guilfoyle-"He's not a great kicker of a ball, but he had no one to kick it to", So he kicks it 20 yds cross field to a Clare man, on 2 different occasions.

Look lets face it, we are in a difficult situation, and the lads confidence has been well knocked over the last couple of weeks. But now is the time to dig in. Clare kicked away ball too, and despite everything we had the same amount of wides, (i was sure we would have had a lot less than them).

I was looking for signs that McDonnell would change our style and leave a couple of forwards up close to goal, but this rarely happened. But yet, when Guilfoyle put the head down and ran at his man, he cut through and gave a great pass to Darby, who, made a super support run to bury the goal.

Pender for Rigney should have been, Pender for Eoin Carroll, (who looked out on his feet for most of the game), with Rigney to half back and Guilfoyle to Half Forward. McPadden was far superior to B Allen. And Cunningham should have been left in the full forward line. Have him working off Nialler.

Stick with it lads, tis all we can do!

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

"Perhaps there is a case for saying that the management team is short on local knowledge"

There is a fair case for that. Paul Mollen answered the call when many wouldnt so fair play to him. He would know his stuff around the south west of the county. But this group needs asistance, and fast.

[clubman]

have not posted here for a while,wanted to give management and players a chance to get a game plan together and mcdonnell to get to know the players but alas neither seems to be working. they players either dont know or cant play to the game plan or mcdonnell doesnt have one.i have been at all the games so far and could have lost all 3 even in london.he also seems to be sticking with a alot of players that went to st marys school,surly there is players outside this area that could make a difference,i know he had trials but players have come in since ,one been brazil and he was one of offaly better players.we have a serious problem from mid field up.dalton and conner probably our best ,half forward line usless,carroll to slow and young ,brady and conner more suited out the field,peter cunningham our best by far will be as good as niall mac in time but mcdonnell doesnt seem to have faith in him ,could go on and on but there no pint only getting angry ,once again i think county board made a mistake in picking a manager

[townman]

Townman,I have to take issue over Niall Smith. He is potentially the best midfielder in the county. However, the best are the ones who can commit. He cant match the committment that his manager wants because of his job, so thats it? Its a conundrum, but dont tell me he wouldnt offer more than ALan Mc or Ross?

Dalton is written off here by many, but I do feel that he has come on over the last 2 years. He must be carrying an injury or he would surely start?

I make the suggestion about some of the players I listed, as some of them are still at an age that can play at a high level, and were part of a team that did push for Div 2. They may have "matured" in their atitude, and if they could help this group of players get out of this division then they would hev served a purpose.

-Couple of points made by posters, "P Cunningham was playing well before he was taken off"- eh no , he wasnt, he was fouled a couple of times, he handpassed a ball over the sideline, he kicked a brutal wide from in front of the goals. But was he worse than any of the rest?, Probably not.
-G Guilfoyle-"He's not a great kicker of a ball, but he had no one to kick it to", So he kicks it 20 yds cross field to a Clare man, on 2 different occasions.

Look lets face it, we are in a difficult situation, and the lads confidence has been well knocked over the last couple of weeks. But now is the time to dig in. Clare kicked away ball too, and despite everything we had the same amount of wides, (i was sure we would have had a lot less than them).

I was looking for signs that McDonnell would change our style and leave a couple of forwards up close to goal, but this rarely happened. But yet, when Guilfoyle put the head down and ran at his man, he cut through and gave a great pass to Darby, who, made a super support run to bury the goal.

Pender for Rigney should have been, Pender for Eoin Carroll, (who looked out on his feet for most of the game), with Rigney to half back and Guilfoyle to Half Forward. McPadden was far superior to B Allen. And Cunningham should have been left in the full forward line. Have him working off Nialler.

Stick with it lads, tis all we can do!

he also walked off the panel 2 or 3 times efore. thats before he pack it in for the job he has now.

[jimbob17]

One thing's for sure - this is a real and meaningful test of the management skills of the guys in there now. Managing school kids is one thing - they don't have complicated lives where they have to balance a lot of different things, so they'll generally do whatever you ask. Similarly, it's all very well to generate a feelgood factor in training when you don't have concrete metrics to assess how you're doing. It's easy to kid yourself into thinking you're flying when in fact all you've done is finally started training at the pace that every other county operates at all the time.

This is different - now you have a real crisis. Promotion from Division four is almost certainly off the table now, while we're preparing for a Leinster championship game against Kildare, who have just beaten the last four All Ireland winning counties in their last four games. On the face of it, there is no hope and nothing to play for.

Now, McDonnell, a Westmeath man, has to connect with these guys and figure out how to turn things around. When we got relegated to division 4 under Kevin Kilmurray it was a disaster - we were way above that level and our results the following year proved that. Now it's no harm to be in division four, because that's what we are - a division four team. There were excuses for losing to Limerick, but yesterday we were outclassed, and outclassed by a team who have one or two decent footballers absolutely, but no more than we do. Yet we let them come to Tullamore and make a show of us.

Everyone would have different views about who should be in there and I'd be the first to admit that there are lads in that squad, lads who started yesterday, that I wouldn't have on a panel of 50. Nonetheless I'm just one more backseat driver - the management team have done the trials, they've seen what's to be seen and they've decided that this squad gives them what they need most. Now they need to make the players believe in what they're trying to do, and fast.

Finally, just on Paul Mollen, I'm not just standing up for a fellow Ferbane man when I say he is quite astute and he does take in a lot of football games down our end. Perhaps there is a case for saying that the management team is short on local knowledge but Paul would definitely be well informed and he would have a role to play. That's not to say that another similarly clued in local wouldn't be welcome too.

Agree Lone Shark. I think that the mismanagement over the last few years is certainly part of the reason why McDonnell is where he is now. And this is not just a management responsibility. The county board have to take responsibility for the fitness levels of the squad as they are the people who choose the people and give backing to people who train the teams. We are now competing in a high performance environment and against counties who have invested high end support in their backroom teams. How often do Offaly opt for a sport science graduate trainer ahead of a journeyman trainer who has trained a few club teams for the sake of a few quid. Clare supposedly have one of the best trainers in the country behind them and Micko is just the layer on top of that. I dont know who Offaly have but if the qualifications are not there, how does one ensure that we are equally prepared physically as other teams in relation to speed, endurance and strength etc and have the balance of rest training etc to maximise performance. We are playing massive catch up with other counties and really, our underage structures are in the halfpenny place compared with other counties. Senior management have then to close them gaps in a matter of months which is impossible.

Promotion is still possible though and if we win the rest of our matches, we should be in a final given our points for total at present even if we have played London. Id still be satisfied that McDonnell is doing his level best and that given the resources available, is bringing the lads as far as he can, but Id also be certain that the level of expertise behind the scene would be one of "inexperience". There is a massive step up to senior county from club intermediate and schools level. I am not knocking the manager when i say this but maybe, given the demands of this job in its current state due to co board and previous mismanagement, he might have got in over his head. Id have been very impressed with the manner in which he started the job but of late, the momentum has been lost. More worryingly however, the last two performances showed up a lot of things that need to be addressed and maybe not having the players doesnt really help. My reaction initially in the announcement of this management was, "Great, young new voice, progressive coach, but what kind of backup support will he have to compete with the counties we need to compete with.

Im nearly certain it was Pat Roe that took us to Div 4 but we got out the following year because we were above that level beating Tipp in the final. Now, we are not above this level and this is because a lot of these current players dont really know what it is like to train at a serious level. We can all pick a different 15 but generally, we should be in agreeance on the best 30/40 footballers in the county. With the volume of turnover in recent years, we dont even know this much anymore......

I dont know Mollin from adam but im fairly sure he is well meaning. Maybe however, he could do with more people around the squad that know the OY club scene as there are certainly lads in that squad that would struggle to make club senior teams in other counties. Maybe this is a reflection on the standard of player in the county. There are plenty of Intermediate clubs under represented on the squad and somebody who'd know the scene would have their finger on the pulse re this. Padraig Bracken from Raheen for example could easily be the best midfielder we'd have if he was given the opportunity to train at this level.

I do feel for McDonnell at this time and its easy here behind a keyboard to castigate. He must realise however that people are behind him and the lads and recognise that their are an amount of external issues affecting the teams performance, not least player maturity and experience. However, pride is a big thing for Offalians and while we dont mind being beaten, the manner of the defeat the last day was disappointing. He must be more demanding of the board, with regard to support and the board must be more accomodating, open minded and give the lads the support that they require and deserve to compete at the top level in the modern age.

[manfromdelmonte]

I asked it before but I didn't get a reply

What are the gym facilities like in the county for strength and conditioning work?
Is there a central gym for all county panels, or do players just use the local crappy gyms in hotels, leisure centres etc.

[westender]

Timber we have been looking at Dalton,Brady, McNamee the last few years and they won't get any better. Dalton is an average club footballer, McNamee was gone years ago but yet was brought back in.

Well said ,buts that were the problem lies, who else have we, answers on a postcard.
As i said before, freetaker, badly need one, can carry him on team like shapper all those many moons ago, sure isnt niall practically carrying the remaining forwards as it is

[westender]

I just thought I'd let everyone know the reason why Offaly are performing so poorly at the moment......It might come as a shock to some but to anyone who really follows football in the county, it's merely stating the obvious.........we don't have the players. Simple as that. We can spend hours discussing tactics, player selection, training methods and the colour of the jerseies but at the end of the day, if the players aren't there, there's not much Emmett Mac can do except work with what he has and get the best performance out of them. Look at it this way, when is the last time you walked away from a senior champ match in Offaly and said that was an excellent game with high skill levels on show and top players on view? The fact is, there are no Finbar Cullens, Vinny Claffeys, Jimmy Grennans or Peter Bradys playing senior football in Offaly at the moment. Niall Mac at the height of his powers would have been the only one good enough to mention in the same breath as those legends. Yesterday was a reality check because we were well beaten by a VERY average Clare team. Granted they had an excellent midfield and one top forward but still...
P.S: The body language of many of the players was the most worrying aspect of yesterdays performance. Heads were hanging everywhere and that bit of fire that was evident in the first few games has disappeared
P.P.S: That Niall Mac 'point' in the first half was wide in my opinion. Close call but I really dont think it curled in enough at the end

Sad but true