Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

[Plain of the Herbs]

Three days on from the day it was published and Kevin Egan’s column in the Offaly Independent hasn’t raised a whimper. Which can only mean one thing – he is right about the apathy in Offaly hurling circles. Because no-one cares.

It can be taken at this stage that this site enjoys contributions from a good cross-section of Offaly supporters: young, older, football-oriented, hurling oriented, club players, former players, those who never hit a ball. And no-one cared to comment.

As far as underage competition is concerned, and with Minors and U21s having exited their respective competitions without a whimper, Offaly hurling has hit a new low. And let’s face it, there is no bottom here. Once you hit the bottom, you can always dig, and Offaly hurling has the JCB roaring here. U21s bowing meekly to Wexford, and on home soil at that. Minors should have been beaten by Meath. But never mind, Laois, their minds full of doubts, went one better a week later. And the reaction: shur no panic, we’re a great little county. I didn’t hang around that evening to see if Laois were afforded a guard of honour that evening. And if they were, I don’t want to know.

In both cases, Offaly were hopelessly out-fought when it came to the nuances of modern hurling. Players too willing to poke the ball away when in trouble, when the better option would have been to bend down, attempt to pick it and maybe win a free. There was no concept of supporting the team-mate in possession, of running at angles, of creating space. Nor was there any concept of being able to cope with opponents who dared to pass the ball to a supporting team-mate. Imagine! The audacity of taking the ball into the hand and playing a pass.

Nothing new in the above. I do feel (and have written here before) that the apathy is sort of a result of that guard-of-honour afforded to Antrim in 1989. That was the symbol that Offaly didn’t mind losing to so-called ‘minnows’ and since that day Waterford, Clare, Down, Carlow, Dublin, Westmeath and now Laois (and almost Meath) have all made significant breakthroughs against Offaly.

The academies and Development Squads have been in place for almost a decade now. They were set up to develop the hurlers who had potential to hurl at a higher level, as they were learning nothing with their clubs. They were also intended to coach hurlers in the nuances of the various positions, for example - to coach a centre-back how to hurl in that position. This is not being done.

That apathy exists at all levels. Underage managers are appointed for one-year terms. Bear in mind a year in underage hurling lasts four months. The Minor and U21 management set-ups for next year probably won’t be finalised until November. And after they are left to their own devices and won’t have to deal with anyone from the Board asking any pesky questions like “how are things going”, won’t be set any targets, won’t have to face any assessment. Because no-one cares.

Young players are under-conditioned and are unable to withstand tackles of more physical opponents. That no hurler under 22 years old came even close to lining out for the Seniors is the result of the four lost years of the (mis)management of the Offaly minor teams by Johnny Pilkington and Joe Cleary in succession. Because there was no pressure on them to improve hurlers either collectivey or individually.

The future is bleak and there is a real danger that the next development will be that young hurlers just don’t bother to make themselves available to the County team. Like Laois at present. The availability of hurlers cannot be taken for granted. If, say, a club were to dominate the County championship for a sustained period and this club turned out to be unpopular to the point of being divisive, or played an unpopular brand of hurling, then playing for Offaly would come second to playing for the club. Once that mindset takes root, a united county can never be fully regained. In some respects, Birr’s playing a stylish brand of hurling, and having an exemplary disciplinary record during their glory years saved the county from division and strife.

There s no appetite for long-term development at County Board level. That much is evident. Kevin Egan points out in his column that clubs are going to look after their own interests, and this is quite understandable.

Yet, any change in mindset is going to have to come from an individual club, and not from the County. Had Kilcormac-Killoughey retained the services of John Leahy instead of growing impatient and jettisoning a progressive coach at the end of 2008, how different would things have turned out? For K-K and for Offaly. We will never know.

Offaly hurling as we knew it has extinguished. Who’s going to shout “ENOUGH!”?

[DAF]

Three days on from the day it was published and Kevin Egan’s column in the Offaly Independent hasn’t raised a whimper. Which can only mean one thing – he is right about the apathy in Offaly hurling circles. Because no-one cares.

In fairness.How many people on here actually read the Offaly Independent.

Why dont Offaly send a delegation down to Kilkenny and see what they are doing at underage level and implement that sort of structure here.Or is that too simplistic a solution

[Bord na Mona man]

I don't read Westmeath papers, so I haven't read the article.

No sign of it on the INTERNET! Can anyone throw it up here?

[Plain of the Herbs]

Because, in fairness, it's available in shops throughout the county and because, in fairness, it's free. D'uuh. In fairness.

If you move to Tullamore you can even get the paper fcuked in the letterbox at you every Friday. And you can take offence when the sports page writes off Tullamore. Simples.

In fairness.How many people on here actually read the Offaly Independent.

Why dont Offaly send a delegation down to Kilkenny and see what they are doing at underage level and implement that sort of structure here.Or is that too simplistic a solution

[Plain of the Herbs]

Since when did you start calling the county 'Westmeath'?

I don't read Westmeath papers, so I haven't read the article.

No sign of it on the INTERNET! Can anyone throw it up here?

[Bord na Mona man]

Since when did you start calling the county 'Westmeath'?

I don't read Westmeath papers, so I haven't read the article.

No sign of it on the INTERNET! Can anyone throw it up here?

People from Meath were complaining that it reflected badly on their waste!

[substandard]

Some post, POTH. I'd be more into football myself (that hurling is way too scientific for me!!), and I'd agree broadly with the bulk of what you said, and to an extent a certain amount of it applies to football as well; over the length of time the development squads/ academies have been in place, the footballers have been relatively competitive, but I think that there could be a bit of a standstill at the moment. I'm not saying it's the fault of management the last few years in that I believe they're good coaches and good with young lads, but other counties, especially Dublin, Kildare (although they collapsed against Dublin last year), even Longford have raised the bar in terms of preparation and resources/ physical training available to squads the last few years, hence it's becoming more and more difficult for Offaly to compete in minor grades. People refer back often to how these squads fared against the same opposition at 14, 15 and 16 levels, and all of a sudden wonder where does it all go wrong at minor level?
I read this site very regularly, and enjoy the insights, opinions and banter between different regular posters. POTH, I have to agree with you that it's amazing there isn't more reaction to the article and what you've said about it, but then I was also very surprised that the thread with the poll seemed to peter out very tamely in the end; I would have expected a huge reaction and was looking forward to the different inputs. Apathy is a malaise that spreads; through the county board, through clubs, all the way down through the players at different grades and down through the age brackets. While nobody (you'd be hoping anyhow!!!) at any of these levels is sitting back plotting on how they can best sabotage any teams' chances of success, the reality is it's easier to to be hypercritical of any other person's efforts rather than analyse one's own contribution. Where little like-minded cliques form, the problem gets worse, and any excuse will do.......a culture of passing the buck, finding scapegoats and neglecting one's own responsibilies develops. As this spreads, the liklihood of more proactive people getting involved in coaching, management or administration is reduced........People from this former group fill the committees and are lauded for their 'committment'......and enough 'committment' will get them on the county board......and so on ad infinitum. So it becomes a vicious circle. A similar path, it could be said, opens up for referees.
I don't mean to be anti the county board, or anti committees or the likes; clubs couldn't function without these people, and the same goes for referees. Without a ref, there's no game, full-stop. The point I'm trying to make is that too often those with responsiblity tend to be very blinkered, and they're overriding instinct is to protect their own sense of power and entitlement, and they seem to be able or are allowed to shut their eyes to the very fact that they themselves could be the single biggest obstacle to improvement or success. 'If you tolerate this, then your children will be next'. While this is unlikely to be an issue (I'd imagine) in the more successful or progressive clubs, I'd imagine it's pretty much the norm in many of the clubs that are in the chasing pack; or when the chasing pack are happy just to lumber along, without ever truly challenging the leaders; thus neither improving themselves or the clubs above them. I've a bit of a headache not thinking over all this. As regards solutions; well, I'm still on my hobbyhorse regarding the importance of physical strenght and conditioning work at development level from 15 on, so at least we can compete physically on a par with leading teams......or why not push the boat out a bit, and become one of the leading teams?

[townman]

Three days on from the day it was published and Kevin Egan’s column in the Offaly Independent hasn’t raised a whimper. Which can only mean one thing – he is right about the apathy in Offaly hurling circles. Because no-one cares.

It can be taken at this stage that this site enjoys contributions from a good cross-section of Offaly supporters: young, older, football-oriented, hurling oriented, club players, former players, those who never hit a ball. And no-one cared to comment.

As far as underage competition is concerned, and with Minors and U21s having exited their respective competitions without a whimper, Offaly hurling has hit a new low. And let’s face it, there is no bottom here. Once you hit the bottom, you can always dig, and Offaly hurling has the JCB roaring here. U21s bowing meekly to Wexford, and on home soil at that. Minors should have been beaten by Meath. But never mind, Laois, their minds full of doubts, went one better a week later. And the reaction: shur no panic, we’re a great little county. I didn’t hang around that evening to see if Laois were afforded a guard of honour that evening. And if they were, I don’t want to know.

In both cases, Offaly were hopelessly out-fought when it came to the nuances of modern hurling. Players too willing to poke the ball away when in trouble, when the better option would have been to bend down, attempt to pick it and maybe win a free. There was no concept of supporting the team-mate in possession, of running at angles, of creating space. Nor was there any concept of being able to cope with opponents who dared to pass the ball to a supporting team-mate. Imagine! The audacity of taking the ball into the hand and playing a pass.

Nothing new in the above. I do feel (and have written here before) that the apathy is sort of a result of that guard-of-honour afforded to Antrim in 1989. That was the symbol that Offaly didn’t mind losing to so-called ‘minnows’ and since that day Waterford, Clare, Down, Carlow, Dublin, Westmeath and now Laois (and almost Meath) have all made significant breakthroughs against Offaly.

The academies and Development Squads have been in place for almost a decade now. They were set up to develop the hurlers who had potential to hurl at a higher level, as they were learning nothing with their clubs. They were also intended to coach hurlers in the nuances of the various positions, for example - to coach a centre-back how to hurl in that position. This is not being done.

That apathy exists at all levels. Underage managers are appointed for one-year terms. Bear in mind a year in underage hurling lasts four months. The Minor and U21 management set-ups for next year probably won’t be finalised until November. And after they are left to their own devices and won’t have to deal with anyone from the Board asking any pesky questions like “how are things going”, won’t be set any targets, won’t have to face any assessment. Because no-one cares.

Young players are under-conditioned and are unable to withstand tackles of more physical opponents. That no hurler under 22 years old came even close to lining out for the Seniors is the result of the four lost years of the (mis)management of the Offaly minor teams by Johnny Pilkington and Joe Cleary in succession. Because there was no pressure on them to improve hurlers either collectivey or individually.

The future is bleak and there is a real danger that the next development will be that young hurlers just don’t bother to make themselves available to the County team. Like Laois at present. The availability of hurlers cannot be taken for granted. If, say, a club were to dominate the County championship for a sustained period and this club turned out to be unpopular to the point of being divisive, or played an unpopular brand of hurling, then playing for Offaly would come second to playing for the club. Once that mindset takes root, a united county can never be fully regained. In some respects, Birr’s playing a stylish brand of hurling, and having an exemplary disciplinary record during their glory years saved the county from division and strife.

There s no appetite for long-term development at County Board level. That much is evident. Kevin Egan points out in his column that clubs are going to look after their own interests, and this is quite understandable.

Yet, any change in mindset is going to have to come from an individual club, and not from the County. Had Kilcormac-Killoughey retained the services of John Leahy instead of growing impatient and jettisoning a progressive coach at the end of 2008, how different would things have turned out? For K-K and for Offaly. We will never know.

Offaly hurling as we knew it has extinguished. Who’s going to shout “ENOUGH!”?

is John Leahy not over this minor team that should have been beaten by meath and were by laois and wexford

[Lone Shark]

I'll get back to the different points raised in this thread momentarily, but for now, here's the text of the piece in question:


The importance of Offaly’s senior championship win over Wexford last weekend was made all the more apparent on Wednesday evening, when for the third year in succession, Offaly’s under-21 hurlers departed the championship at the first hurdle in an abject fashion. The scoreline might not have been quite as bleak as the 2-31 to 0-8 loss to Kilkenny in 2010, nor was the game as one-sided throughout as the 0-21 to 0-8 reverse against Dublin last year, when Offaly led by 0-5 to 0-1 after 11 minutes before collapsing into oblivion. However it was another game where Offaly were blown out of the water by an opponent who had a much more balanced team and who executed the basic skills of the game with so much more efficiency.

Indeed results at minor and development level have been scarcely any better, which further reinforces the view that the current crop of senior hurlers make the most of the next couple of summers and take every opportunity that they get – the complete failure of the production line behind them means that a long and bleak decade, at the very least, is coming down the tracks.

Saying that there is a crisis in underage hurling in the county however has become somewhat akin to saying that the country is a bit short on cash, or that the weather in an Irish summer is somewhat changeable. Even in an analytical column such as this, it hardly qualifies as “news”. However the real story behind all this has to be the extraordinary levels of apathy that have taken hold in the county.

Heavy defeats to established counties are now commonplace, while defeats to teams that previously would have never countenanced beating Offaly are now a familiar sight too. All around Offaly and elsewhere in the province, progress is visible. Westmeath’s absence from this year’s under-21 championship is a huge shock since they’ve had some fine minor hurlers in the past few years, and Laois hurling received a huge boost on Wednesday evening when their under-21s beat Dublin in O’Moore Park. This wasn’t expected to be one of Dublin’s better vintages but after the harrowing experience that they suffered last weekend, Laois will take huge satisfaction from that performance and from the obvious rewards that they are reaping from the “Setanta” programme that has been put in place in the county. They now have a great chance to reach a Leinster final and in a year when the Munster Counties and Galway are expected to be a fair bit better than anything Leinster have to offer, they could get lucky and record a famous success.

It has reached the point now that if the Leinster counties were ranked in order of their likelihood of winning the 2020 Leinster hurling championship, Offaly would be at best the sixth placed contender, a long way off Kilkenny, Dublin and Galway and a little behind Laois and Wexford. The pessimists would say that there would be a case for saying that Westmeath, Carlow and Antrim would all be at the same level as Offaly, if not better, so they too would all be there or thereabouts. Indeed Meath could easily have beaten Offaly in Tullamore this year at minor, while London will no doubt be landed into Leinster next year if they win the Christy Ring Cup. Who knows how many emigrants they’ll have by then? The worst case scenario does not bear thinking about.

Yet there appears to be little or no panic in the county as a whole. This result will be added to the record books, a few of the usual suspects will make the same remarks at the next county board meeting and most likely, another sub-committee will be established. Then, when recommendations are made, club delegates will examine these proposals and see how they affect the clubs themselves, and if they will require any time, effort or resources. If so, as will inevitably be the case, they’ll get filibustered and procrastinated out of existence, or mangled to the point of being utterly ineffective. Right now, in most cases, the individual clubs within the county are struggling to survive and everything is looked at from the point of view of the club, rather than the county, and so the county as a whole is treading water. It’s like an Irish general election – nobody thinks about getting more soup into the pot, they’re all too busy electing the guy who just wants a bigger spoon for himself and the locals.

There are a few notable exceptions to this trend of club administration. At one end of the scale, Edenderry GAA club have become a model club in a town setting, using internal resources to turn around their fortunes at underage level and reaping the benefits last year with a great Dowling Cup triumph. Seir Kieran have become a template for good husbandry and working with scant resources. This year they produced yet another fine under-21 team despite perhaps the smallest pick of any senior club in the county. Ferbane-Belmont minor club too have been a fine example of what can be done when the right people set about turning around a sleeping giant. Only time will tell if the senior clubs are able to utilise the many good young players coming their way, but certainly they have a brighter future than most.

It’s notable that in all those situations, these clubs didn’t turn around their fortunes by way of slow, incremental change. They completely overhauled their structures from top to bottom, and did so using every available resource in their communities. They did so by having a vision, a grand plan, and aiming high every time. At county level, there is no evidence of this, only fire fighting and the endless hunt for “low hanging fruit”, such as the ongoing quibble about the natural home for Offaly hurling at all levels. Not even the most ardent advocate of St Brendan’s Park would suggest that relocating would have reversed the huge defeats Offaly hurling teams have suffered.

The recent “yes” vote in the Fiscal Treaty referendum illustrated that Irish people, as a rule, are happy to accept the consequences of their actions. The lack of angush and anger since Wednesday night suggests that the same attitude is in place in Offaly. Underage structures have not been given the necessary attention, and so results on the field are dire. However while it may be too late to change outcomes and consequences in the near future, there remains a long term as well and that too must be looked after – and steps have to be taken sooner, rather than later.

[Lone Shark]

In fairness.How many people on here actually read the Offaly Independent.

Why dont Offaly send a delegation down to Kilkenny and see what they are doing at underage level and implement that sort of structure here.Or is that too simplistic a solution

Because the Indo is free now, it actually reaches more eyes than the Express and wouldn't be far off the Tribune either in terms of circulation. Of course there are people who aren't in the habit of picking it up and it is a little bit more limited in it's scope, but I'd say it gets read by a reasonable chunk of people too.

In terms of replicating Kilkenny, we could send a delegation down there and they'd come back with one simple answer. They ignore football. I'm not sure that such a solution would be welcomed in Offaly, nor should it.

[Lone Shark]

With regard to the piece itself, the core thrust of it was that with a very small number of exceptions, GAA entities in the county are in retrenchment mode, and when a problem surfaces, everyone just looks the other way for fear they'd have to do something about it. Just to be clear here, I'm aware that there are those who will level accusations of hypocrisy at me for saying so, since I was offered the chance to run for a county board position and due to living in Galway and how I earn my wage, it wasn't something I could do. I hope that the day will come when I'll be in a better position to help, but for the moment there are those who would say that I'm throwing stones from inside a glass house, and that view has some merit.

However it remains heartbreaking to see the GAA in Offaly simply trying to survive rather than thrive. It's the case with clubs, as it is with the county as a whole. Yes, paying the bills has got a lot tougher and that is a huge issue, for some places more than others. Young people, the lifeblood of the organisation, are being forced to leave due to the lack of work, and the level of resources required to field and equip teams is escalating all the time, at every level. Still, all I see around me in Offaly GAA are people just trying to make it through to the next day, the next week, the next month. Representative teams have become a burden, a drain on resources, rather than an asset. Similarly certain clubs have started to look on teams as a cost rather than their raison d'etre. Numbers are an issue, but how much effort is being made in a lot of areas to get people playing if they're in their twenties and gave up four or five years ago. Everybody in the county is worried about the promising fourteen year old lads, but once it becomes clear that you're not a county prospect or a potential senior club player, suddenly it becomes very easy to drift away and no-one cares.

Hurling and football have changed as sports, and while every other county has tried to evolve, we seem to be sitting back, playing the same style as twenty years ago and lamenting how things used to be better. It's painfully obvious in hurling, but it's noticeable in football too. Though I would argue that our teenagers are quite well instructed at football, things break down there from the age of 18 onwards. Our young hurlers barely even get a chance and I used that as the leading point in the piece because it's the most obvious symptom on the field, and the one that should get people most animated.

Nobody wants to mention that our underage hurling is so bad because then we'd have to fix it. When we were running out of referees, nobody talked about it until we were on the brink of having games called off, and even then, we still don't punish clubs when referees get abused by supporters. Nobody talks about the fact that a bare handful of clubs make any meaningful effort at providing ladies football, a few more make a half hearted attempt and most don't bother at all. Camogie is better, but still not as good as it could be.

We're a shambles at the moment. And it's all being ignored.

[llkj]

Why dont Offaly send a delegation down to Kilkenny and see what they are doing at underage level and implement that sort of structure here.Or is that too simplistic a solution

In terms of replicating Kilkenny, we could send a delegation down there and they'd come back with one simple answer. They ignore football. I'm not sure that such a solution would be welcomed in Offaly, nor should it.

Offaly GAA should always encourage the development of both football and hurling, and I believe it always sould. However, if anyone studied the Kilkenny model of success, I am sure that a simple answer of 'they ignore football' would not tell anywhere near the full story of why they are successful. Kilkenny excel at so many things when it comes to hurling, that merely saying that they are good because they don't play football is not accurate at all.

I'd love to spend a Summer studying development models from other counties, other countries and other sports to see how they nurture their talent and report back to the county with a string of recommendations. Make the report publicly available so everyone knows the proposed plan, get feedback from people, tweak it so that all stakeholders get their opinion heard (players, parents, clubs, county board, schools, etc) and then set about implementing the findings. With enough energy, expertise and openness to change from everyone it could work.
Would it ever happen do you think?

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

llkj , your plan to study over a summer is a noble one and if you have the interest then do it. I am looking into all different ways to drive the number of kids playing football in my club. I posted a topic under the heading Feile 2012 and got all the google locations to all the grounds, I asked are any of you guys involved with coaching undeage and got not one reply..... so fire ahead. You might not change the world overnight but if you can convert a few around you to starrt with then plough ahead, no point doing nothing, like many of the lads on here, I would suggest, (maybe im wrong on that?)

Unfortunately the solution lies in hard work my friends!

[old yellar]

As an outsider now looking in, and from having the pleasure of spending over a decade in your lovely county, i dont think its as bad as ye think. right, things havent been great of late but counties have blips like that. i think ye need to look at the amalgamtion of weaker clubs in other to get some lads hurling at a higher level. let them hurl on there own but amalgamate at a higher grade. i saw though the bitterness that the st davids idea brought out in some people. why? because they thought that this amalgamtion might hamper their own clubs ambitions. sometimes ya have to bite the bullet on the club issue for the benefit of the county. i saw it this year where a good friend up there of mine was delighted that coolderry didnt win the all ireland! but thats a side issue.. i think ye need more competition at club level for lads. not more games but better competition. i rem a good few years where clubs won underage competitions at a canter and it did nothing for the lads by winning it so handy. theres a huge drop off in underage talent in the county and i saw this quiet a bit in banagher. maybe clubs need to address this for themselves also. i think ye do have good managers there in john leahy and aidan hanrahan. the are progressive men. dont expect miracles in one year. the development squads need good coaches with them. i know there are some in place so hopefully they ll come through in time. also you have to rem the breeding ground of a lot of good hurlers is the second level school system. currently birr are they only team in colleges A - kk, dublin and wexford have 3 each. westmeath have one. even we had one last year - a combined team. so maybe this needs a tweak. the north of offaly has a combined one, but its up and down. kk who ve supplied a lot of good talent of late really need to step back upto voc a and not hide in the b. this would have to improve their players all year round. chin up boys, look at laois of late, so theres hope for us both yet!

[Sharp Eye]

i think ye do have good managers there in john leahy and aidan hanrahan. the are progressive men. dont expect miracles in one year. t!

I do not know John Leahy or Aidan Hanrahan. You say they are good managers. I know that John Leahy worked as a coach with this year's minor team since they were aged 12. I think he might have been manager of Kilcormac/Killoughy when Tullamore shocked them in the county final. I know Aidan Hanrahan hurled for Offaly. I heard he managed Shamrocks and a Galway club Ahascragh. I would like to know if these managers have a proven man-management record and what successes they have achieved. Good coaches and good hurlers dont always make the best managers. Offaly needs the best managers at under-age level now more than ever or a "Christy Ring" era will follow Shane Dooley's retirement. Our under-aged managers will also need Real Support from the county board. The under aged regime in Westmeath and Laois appears to be so far ahead of us.