Offaly v Clare NHL 01/04/2012

[DAF]

Bakers first real managerial test and he has failed miserably I'm afraid.

* Everyone here except POTH knew that Healion would do nothing and was never a starter but Baker put him out there and true to form he did nothing. Enough ball (high, low and along the ground) went in to him today and he fell around the place. The funny thing is the way the game went the last 15 mins would have been an ideal time to spring Healion. There is way less pressure on a guy coming in for the last few mins than there is starting and coming in late suits Healion but starting...no.

* Young Mooney was always going to struggle today. If Parlon is to be brought in with 15 to go why didn't he start given the nature of this game.

* Sean Ryan started poorly today but really got going late in 1st half I thought. The conditions were ideal for him and I was expecting a big 2nd 35 from him and Baker takes him off 5 minutes into it! Wrong Decision.

* Carroll replaced Ryan and was taken off himself 10 minutes later....was this an injury, he did appear to be limping slighting going off.

* When we got the penalty Limerick were 14pts up in Antrim meaning we would need to win by a few. That ball needed to go to the net but over it went. Did Baker not have someone following the game up north? Should the message not have gone out to Dooley?

* I've always been a fan of Shane Dooley but this playing behind his man craic is starting to cost us. Today he beaten out 5 or 6 times to the ball. Also he tapped the penalty over but yet went for goals from play late in 2nd half when simple points were a certainty. The 2nd was blocked and the Clare winning goal came from it. Murray would try his guts out in a game but Shane is standing around doing feck all at times. Are we carrying him for the frees at this stage. Is it time to consider Murray in there as well?

* Why can't Baker and other posters here see that Joe Bergan is the best option at 14. He should start there and remain there all game.

* We dominated the 2nd half because of the extra man and still lost the game. If Clare had 15 I feel they would have by 5 or 6 points.

* Rigney had a mighty game and in the 2nd half ran himself into the ground. He read the game perfectly. All players need to have this mans commitment, he's a real example.

* The Clare goals were soft. The first one Kenny stood right in front of Dempsey.

* The Offaly first touch was way off the pace. Too many lads not getting the ball up first time. Theres no shame in needing to use 2 hands on the hurl lads!!

* Once again we face into the championship with little or no idea what the team will look like against Wexford. I'm very worried about the Wexford game. Baker looks out his dept.

Hard to disagree with alot of that.Up until 2010 I always considered Shane Dooley to be a lazy player but he worked an awful lot harder in 2010 and 2011 he seems to have gone back the his old bad habits.

I'd also like to add that if this game was in Birr I think we would have won

[first_touch]

The last few posts summed up the game and the state of Ofaly hurling perfectly. Very disappointing today. An awful lot of work to do ahead of the Wexford game.

[kingscounty]

dont start this birr/tullamore venue crap. conditions were prefect for hurling today and offaly were not good enough , clare had 14 men for 60mins and we still couldnt beat them. rigney and horan were offalys best for me and got stuck in. id rather see kenny at centre back he is to slow for full back and teams put a fast player on him which leads to goals.franks should have being moved in the second half because clare kept pucking the ball down his side where they won every ball. dooley is great from frees but he is letting the side down when he wont get stuck in and fight for ball he is watching handy ball all the time and waiting for a lad to burst his bollocks and then slip a hand pass out to him to pop it over the bar. when a forward hasnt got the ball he should at least hassle the back and try and win the ball and dooley wont do this. bergin should be at 14 as said before, murray,eoin ryan,carroll,cleary,bradys,parlon, will all have to be ready come championship because the team that was out today will not beat wexford. rory was a huge loss today and we would have won if he was playing . if we had a few more players with the heart and drive of rigney we would be great, he always gets stuck in and for a small man is a hardy buck. healion should never start another game , bring him on for 10 - 15 mins near the end if we are stuck for size but theres no way he would last the 70mins, he got a world of ball and never won one. ryan should have being left on and he got a great point, carroll was way off the pace and doesnt look anywhere near intercounty level for me. we may put rory midfield when hes back id rather see him centre back but i feel we need his skill and awareness at midfield where we are struggling badly.

[Toxicity234]

That has to be the most frustration thing i've seen
where to start. were lucky to have 3 very good wing backs in the County Diarmuid Horan, Derek Morkan and James Rigney. but if you put Rigney on a 6'2 forward and high ball goes out that way, its not going to end well.

Our Midfield has got to stop getting Drag forward, there a better team when one midfield sits and one goes forward.
If this means that one of there midfield is unmarked in there half back so be it. At one stage in the second half i counted 12 players in the offaly half forward line. that almost half of the players on the field within 10 yards of each others. how any of our forward could find space its Impossible. not once in the whole match can i remember an offaly forward get one and one with his man.

Ger Healion was working hard at full forward, he not the most skillful player. but compared to some other of our forward he was worth have there and should not have being take off at half time. Mahon and Dooley could have being sitting on the sideline before him. He was at least working hard and trying to get out in front of his man.
How Mahon miss an open goal just after half time i'll never know. surely James Gorman from KK is a better half forward than Mahon and Mooney at the moment.

Eanna Murphy came on and played very well at centre back, he should have started but he should have got hold of his midfielders and told them to step back and leave space for the forwards. and Colin Egan played a lot better today than he has being playing.

We should have won this game today if Baker had set up the team correctly. we had 6 centre backs on the Bench today Sean Coughlan, Joe Brady, Eanna Murphy,Peter Healion, Paul Cleary and Rory Hanniffy, and we started Morkan at centre back.

losing two game in the League by one point is very frustrating.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

If the second half against Limerick was bad then the first today against Clare was worse. Much worse.

Just to recap. In the game today, Offaly had the following advantages:

1: Clare with nothing to play for.

2: Clare putting out an experimental line up.

3: Offaly with everything to play for.

4: Clare playing 60 mins of the game with 14 men.

5: Home game for Offaly.


All that in Offaly's favour and still the result. Uncertainty and problems exist everywhere with no line of the team finding universal agreement. The midfield and forward divisions are those which require most attention with serious reconsideration required by many as to what an inter-county forward needs to be capable of doing.
In fairness to the management, current options are limited with Derek Molloy, Dylan Hayden (both injured) and 'The Coolderry's all unavailable. Four, perhaps more, starters right there. Those injuries aside do not, however, excuse the lamentable play, from all players in generating space for the forward six. The crisp, space generating ball to the Clare forwards in the first half was in complete contrast to the ponderous high efforts from our defence. Then when the ball did arrive, any support running or semblance of pre planned moves were non-existent. Rarely did an Offaly forward appear to have any space. It was the same last week. Unlimited amounts of good old fashioned training matches to work out the best front starting 8 along with Alan Cunningham devising a means to get our offence working as team is required. We have two months.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

We should have won this game today if Baker had set up the team correctly. we had 6 centre backs on the Bench today Sean Coughlan, Joe Brady, Eanna Murphy,Peter Healion, Paul Cleary and Rory Hanniffy, and we started Morkan at centre back.

Not to be pedantic but Del routinely lines out at centre back for Shinrone and is usually pretty damn good.

[dubbiff]

Not too much to add to the previous posts except to say the handling from Offaly today was shocking. Clare seem to be emulating the Kilkenny way of catching high balls whereas we were dropping handy ones that were uncontested.
The only forward to pose a threat in the early stages was Bergin and Sean Ryan got stuck in towards the end of the first half. Dooleys workrate was nil and this is the biggest problem I would have with him. His decision to go for a point from the penalty when a goal would have killed the game was baffling. To then opt for a goal chance when a point would have meant at worst a draw was also incredible. Surely he is experienced enough now to make the correct decisions at the right time for the TEAM.
I was happy walking out of the Laois game that we were on the right path but my optimism has been worn away as the league progressed. One can only hope that the best 15 will be available for the Wexford game and that they will be put in their best positions. Lastly I still think we are too nice. Yesterday was not a dirty game but I wouldnt mind seeing a few players pick up yellow cards by being a bit more physical in the challenge. Come championship time the timber will be flying and I dont want to see us soaking up punishment and getting pushed around. Right now Rigney epitomises everything you would want in a hurler and it is his example the other players should be following

[onthefence]

how were offaly unable to create over laps yday especially coming out of our own back line yet clare were able to do it time and time again? it seemed that the game plan was puck it as high and as long without ever tryin to find a man or give a simple handpass. maybe there has been very little hurling done in training yet but Baker has had enough matches now to try and implment some sort of game plan and style of hurling. there was 50 yards of space in front of david kenny yet we had the spare man.
all bar 2 puck outs came down the hospital side mostly on top of franks where was our wing backs, why does our half back line get draged out of position so easily. Theres a lot of work to be done.

[Bord na Mona man]

Most of the main points have been made already.
Offaly let this one slip. Both Clare's goals rescued them just when Offaly were hitting the front.
However Offaly should have killed off this game more clinically, as they were on top for most of the 2nd half.

Worryingly was that early on Clare moved the ball more cleverly in attack. There were times when they switched the ball to the opposite side of the field to find space. Offaly were more inclined to batter their way forward regardless of how crowded it was. Offaly also spent too long hitting everything towards Ger Healion at full forward who wasn't getting any chnage off the Clare full back.

In the 2nd half, leaving David Kenny completely isolated at full back was really high risk too. Even though Offaly were on top, all Clare had to do was manage to land the ball anywhere inside the Offaly 45 and it was either going to be a clearance for Offaly, or a score for Clare.

[azoffaly]

And to be fair to David, he did very well. There must have been 7 or 8 1v1s in there in the second half and he won most of them. Either directly or by dispossessing the full forward. However, as we remarked, it was only going to take one time when he didn't win it, and it would be twines. So it proved.

It's been mentioned already that our touch was poor. Criminally so at times. I thought they'd not been doing a lot of hurling in training, but apparently the opposite is true, so that's disappointing.

I'd also have thought that a team coached by one of the clare engine room in their great team would have been nothing if not physically ready. This Offaly team was a mile off the pitch of intensity, especially in the first half. We won practically no breaking ball in that time, and our poor touch compounded the problems. There are fine big lads on that Offaly panel and team. David Kenny, Harding, Bergin, Mahon, Healion, Egan and even the likes of Shane Dooley is a big corner forward. But we do not impose ourselves on the game physically. I'm not talking about sledging lads, but we need to be physically stronger under dropping balls and under breaks. Getting blown away by smaller opponents who are simply more up for it is not good.

[backofthenet]

Just one thing to add to the debate.

Offaly are far far too conservative when we get the extra man advantage, it seems that everytime we get the one man advantage we try to put him in the least effective position possible.

I would be of the opinion that having an extra man on the full back line is really an awful waste, the extra man should be positioned somewhere in the central third, here he can be used to create 2 v 1s which can then be used to create space for an easy point to be taken. By placing the extra man in the full back line you effectively pose no extra threat to the 14 man team than when it was 15 v 15.

I would really love to see offaly go for it and place an extra man around the half forward line to pick up loose ball. If they bring one of their forwards out of to mark the man, you still have the same advantage of 2 men in the fullback line marking 1 and you also have an extra player in their half of the field. Our conservatism made us lose the game yesterday, although the performance also left an awful lot to be desired.

[llkj]

Team are coming in for a lot of criticism since yesterday. I wasn't at the game so I can't comment on performances. Was following it on Radio and online and noticed some very interesting tweets from Daithi Regan where he was very critical of Baker and the County Board for their appointment. I know he is only a supporter, like the rest of us, but he has a lot of sway with his media profile. His tweets yesterday ranged from:

"Offaly co board hang your head in shame , birr always worth a couple of points to Offaly, went for point from penalty when they needed goal"
which he clarified by saying that he felt that Dooley had been told to go for a point and felt Co Board were poor for appointing a manager who did not know what was going on in Belfast "management fault they did not know the score from Belfast , I agree with you there" .

Most interesting tweet of all was this one: "Ollie baker getting too much money not to know what was going on". That's a fairly serious statement to make about the manager getting payed in such a public forum like twitter. Is this something that people feel he should be asked to clarify or is he within his rights to throw this out there?

[Lone Shark]

Daithi is losing the run of himself on this whole topic.

(1) We needed to win the game, first and foremost. The penalty was a step towards that, the problem instead was the late goal, which seems to have been inevitable.

(2) I am sick to the back teeth of this Birr thing. I've read a couple of good arguments for playing games in Birr on this site, but I've yet to see anything submitted to any of the local papers, I've yet to read any meaningful contribution from a county board meeting, and I've yet to hear any of the public faces of the argument come up with anything more meaningful than "Offaly are better in Birr" - WHY???? Either articulate properly, or shut up. I constantly read Eugene McGee talk about how O'Connor Park used to be a fortress for Offaly football, but we've lost loads of games there lately - maybe, just maybe, it's because the team isn't as good. Or maybe they should demolish the stand and rebuild the concrete seats that caused so many cases of piles, because that was the secret. Either/or.

(3) "Ollie baker getting too much money not to know what was going on" - firstly, that presupposes that Ollie Baker didn't know what was happening in Belfast. As I've pointed out above, if the goal didn't go in, that point would have been the difference between going through and not going through - so just because it isn't what Daithi would have suggested doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been the right thing to do. Secondly, Daithi would do well to clarify because he is accusing the Offaly county board of breaking rules at a time when there is a real hunger in the GAA to deal with this issue. Some county or club is going to be made a very high profile scapegoat very soon and if that's what he wants to happen, then he's a GAA member the same as the rest of us and he would do well to take his information to the appropriate people. If he doesn't want that to happen, then he should stay quiet. Unless he thinks that managers who don't act to his liking shouldn't get approved mileage rates.

[bracknaghboy]

Was Regan even at the game? Was he tweeting from the match or at home listening to the radio? He seems to have an issue with the 25min spin up to Tullamore. O'Connor Park was an in splended shape yesterday. It was perfect for hurling. Sure couldn't we make an argument and say that all our county teams would be unbeatable if they played in Gracefield!

[Plain of the Herbs]

A very frustrating day yesterday. It is apparent that this team is going nowhere. A few things, in no particular order.

To augment GreatDay’s list – 6. Pipsqueak was whistling. Had his hands in his pockets, and was chattin’ linesman Johnny Ryan betimes. Probably the only time Pip will ever observe a match with the gearstick in neutral.

Don’t confuse a poor first touch with lack of skill. That Seán Ryan is a skilful hurler is beyond doubt. For some reason his sharpness deserted him yesterday. Same happened Eoin Ryan in ther Club All-Ireland – doesn’t mean he’s not a skilful hurler either. Truth is that Offaly’s first touch was better back in February.

It’s not the first time this year that Offaly forwards have remained static, in a neat 3 – 3 formation. Compare this to Laois who caused Offaly some bother when, a man down, they pushed their two wing-forwards into the full-forward line when in possession. This caused some bamboozlement to Offaly.

Offaly’s half-back line ate Clare in the second half. They got oodles of ball to the inside forwards. Still, most Offaly scores came from within 30 yards of goal. For this reason I still think Joseph Bergin can make a better contribution from centre half-forward. Colin Egan, for all his attributes, has a big swing which makes him a half-forward. Full-forward when forcing the game is not his best position. If he was left half-forward he might have picked off a score or two, moving out towards the sideline onto his left side. Cathal Parlon looked to be well off the pace.

From the TV it looked like Dooley made a hames of rising the ball for the penalty. Perhaps he made a split-second decision to drive it over? Such is the difficulty of striking a free or penalty off the backhand. It’s so difficult to get power behind a backhand shot that it requires alot of movement and there is more margin for error. A forehand striker would get as much power behind the shot when standing still.

It was a pity because a goal then would have put Offaly four points ahead, and they could then afford to play their extra man at corner-back.

It’s hard to know why Baker went to the referee after the match. Maybe it was to enquire about the weekly NAMA protests were going in Ballyhea. John Sextom (who has history with Offaly) handled the game well.

Onthefence makes an interesting observation regarding Offaly’s inability to make overlaps. It is an Offaly tradition that the ball-carrier isn’t supported and is left to hit the ball as far as he can, if he can. It goes back to the lack of movement in the Offaly attack, where everyone holds their position, like the way U12s are told to do for fear of crowding the centre of the pitch. Even when all those ‘bombs’ were being dropped into the full-forward in the final quarter, neither corner-forward came around on the ‘peel’ to collect a break. In contrast, Clare’s first goal came from a basic off-the-ball supporting run which gave the static ball-carrier an option.

Given the way Clare were playing with one man in the full-forward line, it probably would have been more prudent to keep the extra man back there. Then again, there were enough of men back to deal with Clare’s second goal. And probably the first as well. The thing with playing the extra man in attack is that the extra attacker is going to be picked up once he becomes a threat. So with 7 forwards and 7 backs the forward line becomes pretty congested. And the team who are a man down will have just the one full-forward, as happened yesterday.

Really, the extra man is only of benefit to the team in possession. He can be used to create overlaps. An extra tackler can easily be taken out of the play with a pass over his head, of if said extra man mis-reads a breaking ball, or gets dragged to help a colleague who appears to be in trouble but isn’t.

Five league matches over six weekends has seen momentum stalled. There was much talk in February of how training was going well and the spirit was good etc. Now maybe training was genuinely going well; or it was a doddle and was great craic altogether.

There’s still plenty of time to get it together. Nine weeks to the Wexford match and there’s just one round of club hurling scheduled between now and then (not counting four weeks of club U21 hurling starting this coming weekend), so there’s nothing to get in the way. At this stage it’s hard to be even hopeful of a good performance against Wexford. They have alot of work to do.