Offaly Hurlers catch a break?

[corner back]

Saw this on another website this morning. Seems sensible enough to me. Might even open up a bit more time for the clubs. I think it would be pointless having semis from six team group though.

From todays indo........

THE Allianz Hurling League is set for yet another revamp, arising from growing dissatisfaction over the existing format.

Proposals for a revised structure are currently being prepared by the Hurling Development group and will be shortly circulated to counties for deliberation, prior to being discussed -- and decided on -- by Central Council at their August meeting.

A number of options are being considered, but it's understood that the favoured one will feature the restoration of a 12-county Division 1, which would be divided into two groups of six (Divisions 1A and 1B).

That system applied between 2005 and 2008, but there will be a significant difference this time in that the leading six counties will be in Division 1A, followed by the next six in Division 1B.

Under the system in place up to 2008, the 12 counties in Division 1 were not divided on the basis of strength. Instead, the weaker teams and stronger teams in the top 12 were divided between the two groups.

Based on the final placings in this year’s League, Division 1A would, in 2012, look like this:

Kilkenny, Dublin, Waterford, Tipperary, Galway, Cork and 1B: Wexford, Offaly, Limerick, Clare, Laois and Antrim. The changes provide Offaly with a real boost as they’re to drop to Division 2 next year, but Limerick would lose out as they won the sole promotion slot to Division 1.

Relegation/promotion will continue to apply, but would not be as damaging to counties because Division 1B will be of higher standard than the current Division 2. Groups of six reduce the number of divisional games from seven to five. That enables the GAA to start the NHL later when ground conditions are better.

Congress voted in April to reintroduce semi-finals in Division 1 from next year which means four of the six counties in Division 1A of the NHL would enter the knock-out phase.

[Phoenix]

These proposals make a lot of sense and I hope they're proposed & adopted. I imagine some counties will feel a bit miffed though - Wexford after their great results in the last few Div 1 games and Limerick who think that they are promoted. Also the counties ranked 13 and 14 in the League.

Offaly would be a mid-table Div 1B side in the new set-up on present form. All the games would be reasonably competitive and it would eliminate the terrible mismatches in Division 2 at the moment.

Overall I like the proposal. I was afraid that the GAA would go back to the old model with 12 teams of varying quality in two Division 1's. That's the worst of all worlds.

[Lone Shark]

This would of course be hugely beneficial to Offaly, but Carlow would be entitled to feel terribly aggrieved, much more so than Limerick or Wexford. I'd say Limerick or Wexford would be thinking of how next year they could be the team in division 2, so on that basis they'd be happy with the safety net.

The current system was harsh, and I would have liked to see two up and two down as in the football so it's not so difficult to get out of it, but it wasn't unfair. Neither is this, but it is hugely unfair to spring it on teams with no warning. Who's to say that teams would have maybe done things differently if they were aiming for 4th in division 2 as opposed to second?

[Phoenix]

Agreed that it would be rough on Carlow for 2012 but they'd be favourites for promotion to a decent division with a number of beatable teams.

Perhaps it could be introduced in 2013 rather than 2012. Then everybody would know what they're getting into.

Anyway I think it's the best proposal yet for hurling - better than the present set-up and much better than the old 12 team Divison 1 set-up where one or two teams were getting terrible beatings.

[townman]

Why is it rough on Carlow they are in that division a long time now, look what i am saying is it would suite carlow more if two teams
came up like it used to be then they might have a chance, take next year you have offaly and clare in division 2 chances are that would be
the final.

if we were to say offaly or clare didn't make it and carlow did is there anyone that really think that Carlow would beat offaly or clare in a league final
in thurles in april, no thought so, what would be better for Carlow or laois maybe is if the top two went up and the bottom two in league 1 came down.

[old yellar]

I m assuming its best 6 in div 1a and next in 1b? While we would feel agrieved in carlow, well if thats what happens, what can you do. We ve a young team with a lot of changes in the last year - 6 different lads who started/came on v antrim last year werent there this year when the knocked us out again.. If you are good enough you ll come up, if not.. Same for offaly. No matter where you put a county the should find their level. We never had div 2 hurling for a long time but we still came up when the players and system were good enough. Playing in div 2 then consolidated that good work for the last few years. In offalys case, well, i always say its not those league matches that make or break you but the training etc that goes in to compliment them. If the system is right it ll will produce quality players and hopefully a quality managment team will reap those rewards.

[Fido]

Loks like a better system alright. The League format should be such that the best interests of hurling in the greatest number of counties are looked after and obviously the present system doesn't do that. This way established counties like Offaly, Wexford, Clare, Limerick and Antrim have less chance of being damaged by dropping out of the mix of high level hurling, while at the same time other counties like Carlow, Westmeath or whoever else have a tangible, achievable reward for making progress. At the moment the price for relegation is too high and the system is only benefiting a small core of counties at the top.

[manfromdelmonte]

westmeath also get a reprieve

honestly, I view it as the strong hurling counties looking after themselves and yet again creating an elite grouping to exclude others as much as possible.
they've been lobbying for this the last 6 months

it happened with the Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard competitions when they were relegated off the undercard of the McCarthy Cup semi finals or quarter finals so the minors from Tipp/KilKenny/Cats or wherever get their day out in the limelight - that was a disgrace - all carried out under the watchful eye of a 'hurling' man - Nicky Brennan - bullshit!!! these competitions have been reduced significantly ever since in terms of signifigance within the counties, media interest, and internal GAA promotion.

what would happen if 12 of the strong football counties dictated how the leagues were set up so that it would benefit them.

[llkj]

Well said manfromdelmonte. There is so much shite talked about this and that being 'no good for the development of hulring'. In reality that means... no good for 'our team succeeding in the short term'. Hurling people (of which I am one) are so insular and self-obsessed it is unreal. The offaly south/north Oconnor/brendan's park situation is a microcosm of the national situation. hence the reason why it is still a minority sport in terms of playing numbers in the only country that plays it. 'look but dont touch, touch but dont taste, taste but dont swallow'...

[puzzled]

I for one hope this new proposal is passed it would be great news for Offaly hurling!

Its a pity to see the likes of Carlow suffering with all the work that they seem to be putting in to drive hurling forward in their county,why not simply add them to div 1B? I know by doing this it would end up in a team having a bye for one weekend over the group stages but surely it wouldnt be that much of a headache if it was to benefit hurling in the long term!

Good luck to the likes of Carlow and Westmeath they are doing their best to promote the game within their county,maybe a small bit of help from the rest of the hurling counties would make the difference and have more counties playing hurling at a higher level!

[jimbob17]

very easy solution to it and agree that the stronger counties are looking after themselves, how about two groups of seven for div 1a and 1b. that way Tipp Cork KK, waterford, dublin galway and Limerick play in 1A while Wexford, Clare Offaly laois, Antrim westmeath and carlow play in 1B. 8/9 teams then between 2A and 2B. one automatic promotion with a relegation promotion play off between 2nd from top in 1B and 2nd from bottom in 1A. same through the other divisions with Down Armagh and Kerry looking to join 1B from 2A.

Very simple, each team has six league games. also never have a situation where the best team in the league in 1B doesnt get promoted because they lose a league final to a team that finishes second. in 1A teams that finish second and third play off in league s-final to see who plays top team in league final....think it would be a good format and give lesser teams of playing a high standard

[manfromdelmonte]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling ... 27344.html

League revamp 'will kill hurling in smaller counties'


By Cliona Foley

Thursday July 21 2011

IF THE GAA goes ahead with its planned revamp of the Allianz hurling leagues they will "end up killing hurling in the smaller counties", according to Casey O'Brien, who managed Wicklow to a Division 3A title and a historic Christy Ring Cup final appearance at Croke Park this year.

But O'Brien says he will probably step down in disgust if Wicklow don't get the promotion to the league's second tier that their results this year should automatically earn them.

The former county dual star is furious that hurling's league structures are being redrafted again, describing it as a "kick in the teeth" for many weaker counties that he believes will have only one outcome.

"It will help make the strong counties even stronger and give the weaker counties nothing to play for," O'Brien said.

"We hear all this talk from Croke Park about promoting hurling -- but what it has really become is an elitist game at the top level, and this is only going to increase that. This is the kind of thing that will end up killing hurling in the smaller counties.

"You work your way up the ladder and get so far and for what? To get kicked back down it again? If this goes ahead, I'll have to reconsider my position because I don't think I can face that again.

"In Wicklow, we will definitely lose players as well because this is a real kick in the teeth to them. We got a number of key players back on the strength of our two-year programme and winning promotion. If that's taken away, the players -- like me -- will just lose that drive again."

O'Brien and Wicklow expect that the latest league reshuffle -- currently being drafted and expected to be revealed to Central Council next month -- will result in the Garden County's hurlers getting left where they are, despite two brilliant seasons that were due to see them promoted into the second tier of the league next season.

A revamp of next year's NHL is expected to amalgamate the first two divisions into a new 1A and 1B and leave Wicklow in Division 2, which will be the equivalent of the third tier.

"This isn't just about us," O'Brien said. "John Meyler has done a brilliant job in Kerry and so has Kevin Ryan in Carlow and there's other counties, like Louth, where Paddy Kelly has done brilliant work.

"This will be a huge blow to all the weaker counties who are working so hard to raise their standards, only for our prime motivation (promotion) to be taken away from us.

"There's talk that Division 2 teams can't compete with the top teams when the championship comes around and that extending Division 1 is meant to counter that.

"But look at Limerick this summer -- they're a Division 2 team and look where they are next weekend," he said of the Shannonsiders' All-Ireland quarter-final tie with Dublin.

"Counties like ourselves need to be playing teams like Offaly and Clare.

"Obviously we're not able for the likes of Tipperary or Kilkenny or teams like Dublin, Cork or Galway, but we really need the experience of playing in the second tier.

"Not only will it mean our players will improve, but also that more people will come and watch our games and that has a big knock-on value all around."

Wicklow didn't win one league or championship game in 2009, but O'Brien's appointment two seasons ago has brought them to the summit of the smaller hurling counties.

He was able to use their Division 3B victory last year, and the chance of further promotion, to get some of the county's dual stars, and injured veterans, back into the fray this year, which really paid dividends.

promotion

"Don Hyland came out of retirement, Wayne O'Gorman battled his way back from injury and then this year Chester (Stephen Kelly) and Leighton Glynn (both county senior footballers) got involved in the late stages of the league when we really needed them," he said.

"We lost the Christy Ring final to an excellent Kerry team but getting to it, playing in Croke Park, that was all a bonus. Our primary aim was to win the league and promotion and we did that and now that looks like it will be taken away from us."

Wicklow are particularly furious because this is not the first time they've suffered relegation as a result of a structural revamp.

"It happened twice in the 1990s when I was playing," O'Brien said. "It was exactly the same thing then. We had progressed to the top of the third division and we were about to go up into the second, when they re-drew it and we were back to where we'd been again.

"If they do it again I can see a lot of our lads thinking 'what's the point?' and just and throwing their hat at it."

- Cliona Foley

Irish Independent

[Fido]

You can see this guy's point from a Wicklow hurling point of view, and yes, as has been pointed out by ManfromDelmonte, this new system would primarily benefit the strongest division 1 counties. In reality, we'd be in a 6 county division 2 in all but name, calling it 1B makes no odds, but from an Offaly perspective it would be an improvement on things as they currently stand. Maybe the fairest way to introduce it would be to do it next year so everyone knows what they're playing for? That would seriously disadvantage Offaly this year but we can't really complain about being relegated when it was our own doing. In the longer run I think this system would be better for all concerned. At present the "real" weaker counties have only Clare and Offaly in Div 2 to test themselves against, having a bigger number of "strong" counties in the second tier would have a greater effect on keeping standards high at that level, whether you call it Div 2 or 1B.