Offaly Senior Hurling Management 2012

[townman]

greatdayfortheparish


its not because they were exceptional hurlers they might be able to coach or show some offaly senior hurler and young players coming up how
to catch or strike a ball its not funny but their is 3 or 4 senior hurlers who are poor at striking or how to play a forwards game, thay where John Troy
would come in. same at the back Sid or Hanamy could coach the back's, how many times did our backs run into one other again cork saturday.

limerick are doing well but Ciran Carey is doing great work with them look at tipp Declan Ryan and Tommy Dunne from minor under 21 up to senior team
now and they were with most of that tipp panel as minors in 06,07, Sid is with Camross of laois again this year sure to god him and John Troy would love to
work at getting back up the ladder in leinster hurling. i just put it out there as there is not a lot of good mangers out there at the moment. i was talking to a friend
from waterford a while back and he said this is daves fitz last year because he nearly has the county board broke down there.

i know Padraig Horan will be in the hat for the job buti hope he doesn't get it, nothing again Horan its just that if he gets the job you will have 3 or 4 of this years panel
who won't hurl under him like you have a few who wouldn't hurl under Joe Dooley when he was over offaly. maybe a outsider is the best for offaly hurling.

[Lone Shark]

Just to pick up on a few points in this thread:

Donal O'Grady would be ideal if possible. You can see the development in the way Limerick play the game and they're good mentally too - when Clare headed them down the stretch in the Division 2 final they just picked themselves up, drove on again and closed out the game.

No chance, and it would be irresponsible if we did. Most people in the county are aghast at how much money is being bled from the county board now, any manager with an All Ireland to his name managing a county other than his own would set you back six figures probably - money we don't have. It's a nice thought, but until Offaly gets a JP McManus signing cheques for us, then people like O'Grady will not be taking over.

Does anybody else think the 'Selector' role in GAA is completely outdated and, to be frank, stupid?
Should the GAA not move towards this model and abolish the pure selector role? Maybe Offaly could be the first. Would it be feasible or practical for our next manager to be assisted by, for example, Brian Whelahan and John Troy as Backs Coach and Forwards Coach respectively? Just an idea.

In fairness, most managers look for different types of expertise with their selectors, the title is just tradition, and they do create a natural balance. I played a very small part with the minor footballers this year and that was exactly what was going on there - John Ryan would by nature be a forwards coach, Brian Brereton is excellent defensively speaking and in terms of coaching things like tackling techniques and so on, while Ger Keyes brought a lot to the table in terms of drills, seeing the technical areas where lads were weak or strong, and between the three they covered most of the bases. I don't mean to pigeonhole the three lads who obviously had a lot more attributes as well, but my point is that most managers would look for this kind of balance in their selector team certainly.

yes maybe give Francis Forde or Ken Hogan a run at it wouldn't be a bad choice. but John Leahy is a NO NO... bar its the tipp John Leahy

I've never seen the man take a training session, but I wouldn't have realised that there was any such negative feeling against him. Any chance you could be more specific as to why - I think he'd have a pretty good grasp on the hurling scene in the county.

Does nobody think Joe should get one more crack of the whip?

Ok, we got relegated in the league with some poor results, but he has brought this team on a lot, from being hammered by Cork in 2007 and 2009 to matching them on Saturday, even minus several first choice players. At least the fight is back in them.

You forget he was there in 2007 and 2009 as well, so he brought them on from a place where he put them to begin with. Relegation is a huge body blow, and we've only won one meaningful championship game in four years.

Don't forget either that Dublin coasted through the game against us, while Cork played most of the match with fourteen men, having been put in the qualifiers themselves by an eight point defeat. They may go on to prove me wrong, but I expect Cork to exit the qualifiers at the next stage.

We certainly haven't progressed in four years, and that's way past the point of giving a man time to get used to the job.

[KingLurk]

Just to pick up on a few points in this thread:
... while Cork played most of the match with fourteen men, having been put in the qualifiers themselves by an eight point defeat. They may go on to prove me wrong, but I expect Cork to exit the qualifiers at the next stage. ...

I think you're strongly under estimating that Cork side. Time will tell.

[Kevin]

One other thing:


Does anybody else think the 'Selector' role in GAA is completely outdated and, to be frank, stupid?
As far as I can make out it's unique. In what other sport does a management team include two men who do absolutely nothing except watch training? In all other sports the team selection seems to be in the hands on one individual (Alex Ferguson, Declan Kidney) with significant input coming from those who actually have a hands on role and help coach the team (Mike Phelan, Gert Smal, Les Kiss).

Should the GAA not move towards this model and abolish the pure selector role? Maybe Offaly could be the first. Would it be feasible or practical for our next manager to be assisted by, for example, Brian Whelahan and John Troy as Backs Coach and Forwards Coach respectively? Just an idea.

Gang,

Please excuse the elementary question, but what is the selector supposed to do because I really have no idea? Are they 'assistant managers'', assistant coaches?

I remember when Padge Mulhare was involved. For a time he seemed to be the designated half-time interview giver. I thought he was effective because the manager was not needlessly tied up. He would also speak for 30 to 60 seconds and say absolutely nothing of use for the opposition to use. Just 'we're fearful of them, their mighty, etc., etc. I always envisioned him laughing his ass off on the way back to the dressing room thinking 'let them dissect that pile of crap for a while. I realized he was a player for a long time and was part of the scene forever so would be a good source of information/perspective among other things, but always wondered what proactive tasks the selector engaged in.

I have no idea whether the below described position exists, maybe the selectors or manager is already doing it or should be doing it, but if not:

Is there a person with a position in the Senior Hurling setup whose responsibility it is to be the owner of the clear and concise picture as to what talent we have currently and rising in the county and keep tabs on them or call on them when necessary (even just to continue contact). Is someone in touch with their coaches or dare I say family? Is there someone whose job it is to to see that we do everything possible to get the best players playing for the county team if at all possible? For instance -

Does someone log the miles, meet with players and prospective players, sit them down at their kitchen table (or wherever) alone or with a coach and say something like ... I represent the Offaly Senior Hurling Team, down the years we achieved success that has been the envy of every county that competes in the game. We are in the process of resurrecting our fortunes. We plan to win an All Ireland within the next 5 years. I'd like to see you be a part of it, I really do, but know this - we are going to do it with you or without you. Do you want to be part of something others only dream about? Or do you prefer to watch from the stands or on the box and wonder what might have been?

Then again, these are volunteers and time is limited. Its a lot to ask, but I think this activity is crucial.

Either way, good management will get the best out of what we have to work with. Some of our wounded will return. There is cause for optimism, but nobody ever said ti would be easy...

[puzzled]

Does nobody think Joe should get one more crack of the whip?

Ok, we got relegated in the league with some poor results, but he has brought this team on a lot, from being hammered by Cork in 2007 and 2009 to matching them on Saturday, even minus several first choice players. At least the fight is back in them.

Dooley has had his shot 4 years and nothing to show for it,out now end of story!

I dont know enough about Francis Forde to know whether he is up to the job or not! Personnally I wouldnt be against the appointment of Brian Whelehan he has decent coaching experience although not at county level he is a very good communicator and if players were not willing to hurl for him it would be very strange!

To me the best outside manager would be Ken Hogan he knows the Offaly club scene as well as anyone and I think he would be a top drawer appointment!

[Plain of the Herbs]

First things first – Joe Dooley is still the man holding the Bainisteoir’s shirt and the decision is in his hands at the moment. I’m not aware of him having a specific term, unlike his predecessor John McIntyre who had a three-year term with a review at the end of the second year.

I do think Dooley has brought this team as far as he can and that he should step aside. Quoted after the match he said “you can do it right or you can do it for the sake of doing it”. Hmmm!

Now while most observers of Offaly hurling are aware that the team’s progress remains stagnant, there is still a considerable school of thought that Joe Dooley is doing great work with Offaly. And maybe they are right and Offaly would be alot worse off only for Joe Dooley’s management, but I doubt it. Given the way the Brewery Tap PR machine rushed to the defence of their colleague two weeks ago, any attempt to remove Dooley could result in another bad slant on the board.

I do like GreatDay’s idea of delegating various coaching roles, as opposed to merely having ‘selectors’. Selectors is a structure dating back to the dark ages when the clubs picked the team, selectors were delegated who voted on the lineouts with much bargaining taking place before selecting a starting 15. Thankfully that doesn’t happen anymore. Indeed, when Dooley was appointed, he and the other two contestants for the position came forward with their proposed management teams.

And if the selectors do have specific roles as Lone Shark notes, why not label them backs coach, forwards coach, skills coach etc., rather than merely selectors. GreatDay is right – be progressive. I noticed during the football match v Wexford in Tullamore last month that Tom Cribbin hardly consulted with his ‘selectors’ at all, though he constantly consulted the guy with the ‘haircut’ and the orange bib. Do Cribbin’s selectors have a role?

Good players don’t necessarily make good managers and there is a culture emerging where players clock up their pension contributions spending a dozen years or so training hard and sustaining the injuries that go with it, then cashing in that pension when their playing days are over when they coach various county teams. I do think the Brewery Tap’s apoplectic reaction to the O’Connor Park issue spoke volumes in this regard and there could be further resistance to an outside manager if one were to be appointed. Fúck ‘em.

Offaly hurling has alot going for it. If the Offaly spirit saw Offaly battle for 70 minutes against Dublin it was Francis Forde’s influence that saw Offaly dominate Saturday’s match, be comfortable in possession, use the ball well and create a litany of chances. While there are deficiencies at catching the ball at underage, Offaly have enough Senior hurlers who can compete successfully in the air with most hurling teams outside of Kilkenny and Tipperary. There are enough hurlers who have the physique to prosper at the top level too, with some guidance.

Derek Molloy could be a mighty hurler with proper coaching. Colin Egan too. And I didn’t think Daniel Currams had it, until Saturday. That won’t be improved by doing boring ground-hurling drills, which would be the preference of the majority of former Offaly hurlers, many of whom have overseen disaster after disaster at underage ranks, or who have been ran out of Senior clubs in other counties. The answer is under Offaly’s nose.

[danandmollys]

While troy was a great hurler,,, he wouuldn't be able to manage the lusmagh under 10 team!

[Plain of the Herbs]

Evidence? Back it up or withdraw it. You made the accusation.

While troy was a great hurler,,, he wouuldn't be able to manage the lusmagh under 10 team!

[puzzled]

While troy was a great hurler,,, he wouuldn't be able to manage the lusmagh under 10 team!

While I wouldnt want him to manage Offaly to say that he wouldnt manage Lusmagh U10's is a cheap shot!
He is managing Ballyskegnagh intermediates and they have played two games winning one and drawing the other,now Ballyskenagh are a very average intermediate team so to get the two results they have so far he must be doing something right and they played those two games without their star man Brendan Murphy!

[backofthenet]

Someone from outside the county would be preferable for the county job. But the next appointment is vital to ensure the survival of offaly as a hurling county at all. I do believe it is that vital. The way our underage teams are performing it is only a matter of time before we are down behind westmeath and carlow in the pecking order of leinster. It is vital the next manager changes the entire county setup from top to toe, instills new confidence and direction into the county. If I had a choice I would choose Donal Og Grady, i dont care if its a one year term or not, he has the ability to change a lot in one year. We have been struggling with below par managers for quite some time now, from John McIntyre to Joe Dooley and quite a number before.

[Abercrombie Fitch]

Personally i think an outside manager is what Offaly hurlers need at this juncture. A proven manager. A bit of hype and media attention might not do us any harm seeing as being disregarded and under the radar under Dooley wasnt any great advantage.

Liam Sheedy would be my first choice. Broke Kilkennys 5 in a row bid and might be tempted to try his hand with a county looking for some inspiration. The story that he left Tipp due to 'work commitments' appears to be off the mark. Money may be an obstacle.

Ken Hogan would be another good option. He knows the Offaly scene yet would be hopefully seperated from the politics which exist at the moment. He would surely stand up to the county board in a way that Dooley only did when it was too late.

To finish off the Tipp vein, I would not be opposed to Tommy Dunne. He seems destined to be going to the top as a manager and is young and hungry. Distance wouldnt be a problem for him, being a Toom man. I wouldnt give a monkeys if he used us as a stepping stone to the Tipp job if it allowed us to establish ourselves in Div 1 and to operate at a higher level than we do right now.

Not quite sure Donal O'Grady would give up the financial rewards of Limerick to come to Offaly. Also he must see Limerick as a work in progress after their promotion and performance against Waterford.

Whoever we get should be appointed before October to get the structures in place to hit the ground running when the lads get back training. Selectors, or forwards/backs coaches as some have suggested should be Offaly men. Plenty of members of the 1994-98 teams involved in coaching to pick 2.

[Lone Shark]

I'm not trying to be the party pooper here, but would any of the posters suggesting a big name outside manager like to suggest where we'd get the money to pay them?

Every single one of us are under pressure to buy club lotto, county lotto, development draw and all the rest - sponsorship and gate receipts are only going one way, and people want to spend €100k or more on a manager? (And rest assured, that is the minimum going rate for any manager that has won an All Ireland!)

Where in God's name will this money come from, can anyone enlighten me?

[llkj]

100K, shit really??

Just out of curiosity, how do they actually write this type of thing off both tax wise and also on the county board financial statements?

Joe Dooley said that Offaly had 100 get togethers this year. Lets persume the following for next year:

1. Offaly get further and have 150 sessions next year.
2. The new manager has to do 150 miles roundtrip to each session

That is 22,500 miles in the season.

Do they declare that they are paying the manager 4.44euro a mile and everyone agrees that it is a fair rate, and he comes out with 100K?

Or am i being completely innocent and it is actually a much darker art than this.

[Bord na Mona man]

Hopefully the Brewery Tap Illuminati don't leave it too long to make a decision on who manages Offaly in 2012.

Unfortunately local candidates seem scarce. The track of Offaly hurlers when they become managers has been mostly disappointing. Why, is probably for other topics, but perhaps now is a good time for a bit of outside influence again.

We'll need someone not very expensive, rather than a big name doing a milking round. A low profile scholar of the game - relying on brains rather than past playing reputation.

Francis Forde should be a front runner in that he is familiar with the current group and wouldn't need to lean on local selectors as much as a complete outsider. Ken Hogan is another option, but his stint over Tipp wasn't very successful.

[Fargo Boyle]

Excuse my ignorance but what are Francis Fordes credentials?

Also did the county board win the euromillions in order for us to afford Grady. Someone mentioned 100k, i would say double that and you would be closer to the figure