LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

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durra1
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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by durra1 »

Bord na Mona man wrote:
Just to illustrate the 'Offaly way' of hurling at work.
On two occasions in the first half David Kenny got the ball in his hand around the '45 when he was still centre back.

On the first occasion, he looked up and dinked a 50 metre puck towards the left wing. A split second after he hit it, Brendan Kelly berated him from the sideline by bellowing "DRIVE IT!" at Kenny. The end of the yell coinciding with the ball dropping into the mitt of an unmarked Brian Carroll who was able to tap it over the bar with relative ease.

A few minutes Kenny did the same - picked out a target in the forwards and directed a less than full powered puck to hand and got the same treatment from Kelly. It didn't lead to a score but it was a great ball to play.

Just a couple of small examples of the sort of 'year zero' thinking that still goes on in Offaly hurling.
So long as players are being instructed to belt it as far away and as soon as possible, there is little prospect of bridging the gap with more tactically advanced hurling counties.
Away, whip, pull, get rid of it, drive it, don't be messin' with it are probably the sort of phrases that would probably get planted in the mind of a young lad learning to hurl in Offaly.



Ogres like this drive me mad …

And to think of the lip you’d get if you told him what to do with himself.

Probably something straight from the Babs Keating school of you can’t play/coach/talk/walk within 5 years of the touchline unless you’ve won an All Ireland medal.

Kelly was a fine Minor / u-21 (if I recall correctly he played on the half back line then) but was the poorest starter in 1994.

The game has completely changed since 1994 – you must have cerebral hurlers at 5/6 and 7 these days.

It’s a more important line than in football as they contest puck outs and distribute possession direct to the inside forwards.

If we could afford it, I believe our best half back line would be Diarmuid Horan / Kenny / Del.

‘Drive it’ only applies to the full back line when under serious pressure.

Daingean Exile
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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by Daingean Exile »

durra1 wrote:Bord na Mona man wrote:
Just to illustrate the 'Offaly way' of hurling at work.
On two occasions in the first half David Kenny got the ball in his hand around the '45 when he was still centre back.

On the first occasion, he looked up and dinked a 50 metre puck towards the left wing. A split second after he hit it, Brendan Kelly berated him from the sideline by bellowing "DRIVE IT!" at Kenny. The end of the yell coinciding with the ball dropping into the mitt of an unmarked Brian Carroll who was able to tap it over the bar with relative ease.

A few minutes Kenny did the same - picked out a target in the forwards and directed a less than full powered puck to hand and got the same treatment from Kelly. It didn't lead to a score but it was a great ball to play.

Just a couple of small examples of the sort of 'year zero' thinking that still goes on in Offaly hurling.
So long as players are being instructed to belt it as far away and as soon as possible, there is little prospect of bridging the gap with more tactically advanced hurling counties.
Away, whip, pull, get rid of it, drive it, don't be messin' with it are probably the sort of phrases that would probably get planted in the mind of a young lad learning to hurl in Offaly.



Ogres like this drive me mad …

And to think of the lip you’d get if you told him what to do with himself.

Probably something straight from the Babs Keating school of you can’t play/coach/talk/walk within 5 years of the touchline unless you’ve won an All Ireland medal.

Kelly was a fine Minor / u-21 (if I recall correctly he played on the half back line then) but was the poorest starter in 1994.

The game has completely changed since 1994 – you must have cerebral hurlers at 5/6 and 7 these days.

It’s a more important line than in football as they contest puck outs and distribute possession direct to the inside forwards.

If we could afford it, I believe our best half back line would be Diarmuid Horan / Kenny / Del.

‘Drive it’ only applies to the full back line when under serious pressure.
Babs is a pain in the hole he likes to provoke and antagonise people, even people in Tip are fed up with him. I suppose it's the only way he reckons he'll get a bit of work as a pundit. He's definitely a B list pundit in the hurling game. I read a Babs Keating article in the Sun yesterday, he was saying stuff like Tipp will never win anything with Liam Sheedy because Sheedy hasn't an All Ireland medal himself. Michael Bond never won an All Ireland as a player either when he manged Offaly to All Ireland success, after the boys told Babs to f*ck off out of it.

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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by Kevin »

durra1 wrote:Bord na Mona man wrote:


‘Drive it’ only applies to the full back line when under serious pressure.
Right you are (of course).

Giving up easy possession is certainly the quickest route to disaster.

I was not at the game, but from what has been written here it seems like we were playing a more physical team (Antrim).

This mindless blasting of the ball into areas where we have a physical disadvantage is madness.

I'm sure Galway (and McIntyre) would love to see us employ the same strategy on the 20th.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by allstar2010 »

with the match fixed for croker there goes any hope we had of beaten them. I'm shocked that its on there especially as there will be no atmosphere at it, i can't see there been more than 25,000 at it. What was wrong with Portlaoise? It would have been packed and buzzing. It'll be like the leinster final last year between kilkenny and dublin where every puck could be heard echoed around the stadium, awful stuff. As for the Offaly-Galway itself, I think the wide open space in croker will suit the galway forwards and will put Offaly away with about 10pts to spare unfortunately.

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the bare biffo
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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by the bare biffo »

Personally I wouldnt give a shite if there was only one man and his dog in Croke Park if Offaly could manage to beat Galway. I'm old enough to remember 1980 and was lucky to be one of the 120,000 packed into Croker that historic Leinster final day.

But seriously, on all form and logic, as you say Galway should have plenty to spare over this Offaly team. But Offaly teams have built a reputation over the years of somehow defying logic, both in good and bad ways, so it is often a bit superflous anlysing the various merits and demerits.

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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by leinsterman »

yes i remember 1980 sitting in the hogan and the rain pouring down and kilkenny were the champions then
i will never forget the face of a kilkenny man in front of me after the full time whistle went he just sat there looking out on to the field
and wondering what he just had seen was real.

They were a great side back then they broke the mole for the offaly hurlers then, would have went to hell and back for one another
if we had them now i wouldn't be worried about Galway :)

manfromdelmonte
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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by manfromdelmonte »

the National GAA and Leinster GAA seriously need to sort out their PRO workings
getting the basic news about the semi finals venue wrong, is a joke
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Over The Black Spot
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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by Over The Black Spot »

The fact of the matter is, as many here have said already, that Offaly couldn't get a smell of the ball on the half-forward and yet Benny Kelly is getting a roasting for telling his centre back to drive the ball as far as he can.
The only hope we had of getting scores was to get the ball to the inside line as fast as possible and to read some of the pure shite that's posted here about Kelly because he wanted the ball in the danger zone is sickening - and to whoever said he was the poorest starter in '94... you're a complete fuckin eejit to be posting comments like that!!

All I'm reading here is that Offaly should abandon the old style game of letting the ball do the work and change to a running game yet everyone here admits that we don't have the type of players that are suited to an over-robust, ball-carrying type of game. Open the eyes lads and see that the only type of game that Offaly will every make progress at is one where the ball moves direct and fast to compensate for the lack of physicality we possess. We need honest, hard-working hurlers who are prepared to die for every ball and it's those we need to unearth rather than trying to change something that has worked.

Change the personnel if required (we have the nucleus of what we need but a few of the less honest need to be weeded out), don't change the way Offaly have always flourished....

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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

That would be me, I guess. Just to elaborate on where I’m coming from – I’m not advocating a running game merely because everyone else is at it. Thing is that nowadays if you give possession away, you‘re not going to get it back again until you’re pucking out after a score.

I blame Brian Cody for changing the way Kilkenny hurl to a method that Offaly couldn’t compete with. I believe that was no accident. Anyway, you can’t legislate for how the opposition approach the game.

Competing for a loose ball requires a degree of physicality too. I’d say the Antrim match was in extra time before Offaly won a ball in a ‘scrum’ as Offaly were horsed around the place for much of the match.

Note too that Joseph Bergin and Shane Dooley insist on standing behind their men. That makes a short ball futile, as it was several times last Sunday.
Over The Black Spot wrote:The fact of the matter is, as many here have said already, that Offaly couldn't get a smell of the ball on the half-forward and yet Benny Kelly is getting a roasting for telling his centre back to drive the ball as far as he can.
The only hope we had of getting scores was to get the ball to the inside line as fast as possible and to read some of the pure shite that's posted here about Kelly because he wanted the ball in the danger zone is sickening - and to whoever said he was the poorest starter in '94... you're a complete fuckin eejit to be posting comments like that!!

All I'm reading here is that Offaly should abandon the old style game of letting the ball do the work and change to a running game yet everyone here admits that we don't have the type of players that are suited to an over-robust, ball-carrying type of game. Open the eyes lads and see that the only type of game that Offaly will every make progress at is one where the ball moves direct and fast to compensate for the lack of physicality we possess. We need honest, hard-working hurlers who are prepared to die for every ball and it's those we need to unearth rather than trying to change something that has worked.

Change the personnel if required (we have the nucleus of what we need but a few of the less honest need to be weeded out), don't change the way Offaly have always flourished....
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Over The Black Spot wrote:The fact of the matter is, as many here have said already, that Offaly couldn't get a smell of the ball on the half-forward and yet Benny Kelly is getting a roasting for telling his centre back to drive the ball as far as he can.
The only hope we had of getting scores was to get the ball to the inside line as fast as possible and to read some of the pure shite that's posted here about Kelly because he wanted the ball in the danger zone is sickening - and to whoever said he was the poorest starter in '94... you're a complete fuckin eejit to be posting comments like that!!

All I'm reading here is that Offaly should abandon the old style game of letting the ball do the work and change to a running game yet everyone here admits that we don't have the type of players that are suited to an over-robust, ball-carrying type of game. Open the eyes lads and see that the only type of game that Offaly will every make progress at is one where the ball moves direct and fast to compensate for the lack of physicality we possess. We need honest, hard-working hurlers who are prepared to die for every ball and it's those we need to unearth rather than trying to change something that has worked.

Change the personnel if required (we have the nucleus of what we need but a few of the less honest need to be weeded out), don't change the way Offaly have always flourished....
The point was that a player who sought to play a ball that actually favoured Offaly retaining possession was berated.
The preferred option obviously being blindly belting it and hoping for the best.

The reason Offaly don't get a smell of the ball in the half forwards is because the players aren't great at winning 50-50 balls. The reason the balls are only 50-50 in the first place, is because they are very often blindly cleared from the backs.

If Offaly aren't robust enough to win dirty ball, then surely more intelligent use of possession is essential?

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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by backofthenet »

Look there is a lot being spoken about changing the way offaly hurl etc...the simple fact is if you get a chance take a look...its a phrase ive heard since i started hurling, and i think its applicable today as it was way back when.

On the whole kenny incident, peoples emotions come into it at matches, and you can often berate a lad for the wrong reason during a game, it happens they get over it. The most important thing a lad can do is forget everything that is being said on the sideline, because if you listened youd never be any good, play your own game, confidence in your own ability is key. Anyway ive often said such things during a game so Im not going to berate someone for one phrase said during a match.

The real problem at the moment is a lot of forwards both at club and in offaly anyway county level, expect to get perfect ball everytime. This is impossible for the best teams in ireland let alone offaly. There are going to be times in a game when your backs are against the wall, and whilst the ball might not be ideal it still needs to be competed for. I have seen it with my club and at county level, you see a forward with hands on hips looked at the back who has won his ball and cleared it as if to say...will ya score it for me aswell. This is a big reason for offalys much talked about fade outs, our forwards just dont seem to have the bottle for the battle.

Take the Cork Tipp game last weekend as an example, Corks forwards got some great ball certainly, but there was not one ball whether good or bad that wasnt contested by their forwards, I remember one time in the second half declan fanning was harried so much he overcarried whilst going backwards!! On the other hand how many times did you see Cadogan take a ball clean out of the air uncontested, or shane o'neill come out with ball after ball, Its Corks attitude, rather than their running game that we need to take on board and adapt to!

1st off fitness levels need to be improved 100% they dont look fit and act like it too, they need to build on their physicality, do weights like every other county in Ireland. Reward workrate first, put at least one or two platers on the forward line that are better workers than scorers...offaly have a tendancy of going for lots of nice hurlers, but no one to win the primary possesion. Cork have asaike o halpin & Niall McCarthy...neither is a fantastic hurler, but they work their ar@es off, and they play for the team rather than themselves....look at the offaly team...our six forwards were Currams, Brady, Molloy, Carroll, Bergin & Dooley. Out of those six forward, there is possibly Joe Brady who is there for ball winning ability. Currams, Molloy, Carrol & Bergin will not win their own ball or any 50/50 ball...so before we take the field we are at a disadvantage.

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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by durra1 »

Overtheblackspot – I’m not getting involved in a public spat over Benny Kenny. You are one of the better posters on this forum and I don’t think you are doing yourself any favours calling someone a complete fuckin eejit from behind a computer screen. Your welcome to PM me or to meet up in person.

Maybe I shouldn’t have made the comment about Kelly’s ability as a player into it - I was a little bit vexed when I read BNMM report and disappointed that that current school of thought persists in our management team. (I wasn’t there last Sunday).

I think your overlooking the points being made which are valid. While a team must hurl with fury , they must also do so with a brain , and I don’t think the ‘drive it’ mentality applies to the latter.

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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by the bare biffo »

Just a thought.

The assumption here seems to be that the tactic being relayed by Kelly was a long high aimless ball as far as possible.
Is it possible that what was expected was long ball into the corners giving the smaller forward an advantage running onto it, then get the half forwards turning their markers and running on for a pass.
I dont know much about it but it seems to me that if the biggest difficulty Offaly have is competing on the half forward line, then it might make sense to consider a tactic that bypasses that line rather than trying to confront it.

And to be honest I am not sure I really believe that the guys in charge are as neanderthal in their thinking as some people assume them to be.

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Re: LSHC 30th May Offaly v Antrim Parnell Park 3:30pm

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

TBB,
I can see the way you're thinking. The thing is that, rightly or wrongly, Bergin and Dooley insist on standing behind their men. That leads me to think that the plan is to fire the ball in high, over the heads of the full back line, there the attacking duo will have a clear run on goal. To answer the question "is it possible that what was expected was long ball into the corners", on the basis of the above I would think not. That doesn't deem a ball into the corner illogical - thing is most top hurling counties attack that way.
As for bypassing the half-forward line - again logical, though I think that's not really possible without measuring the puckout carefully.
the bare biffo wrote:Just a thought.

The assumption here seems to be that the tactic being relayed by Kelly was a long high aimless ball as far as possible.
Is it possible that what was expected was long ball into the corners giving the smaller forward an advantage running onto it, then get the half forwards turning their markers and running on for a pass.
I dont know much about it but it seems to me that if the biggest difficulty Offaly have is competing on the half forward line, then it might make sense to consider a tactic that bypasses that line rather than trying to confront it.

And to be honest I am not sure I really believe that the guys in charge are as neanderthal in their thinking as some people assume them to be.

BELIEVE.................
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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